PlayClassics master file giveaway for CA members

[Leonard]

Thanks for the offer Mario. Albéniz Iberia for me please

[Tony Lauck]

Hi Jud and mansr,

I do not have insider or specific information about playlist changing the phase of tracks vis-a-vis album play mode.

I found that out a couple of years ago by listening. And over different versions of iTunes, the change persisted.

You may try a track or two of solo voice with which you are very familiar. Listen carefully and attentively if you aren't accustomed to picking up phase difference. In the album play mode you will hear the mouth "spitting" out words towards you whereas in the playlist mode, the same words are "sucked" in. To get a feel of it, you say the word "go". it is spitted out from the mouth. You say the same word by sucking in air into your throat. The same word is produced by both methods but in opposite phase.

Nowadays, phase change is recognised and you will find in high end pre-amps and DACs a phase change switch. I understand phase change is NOT measurable by instruments.

 

It would be very helpful if you could give specific examples of how to elicit this effect that you have found to be repeatable. If so, then there would be specific experiments that could be performed to measure and document the polarity reversal, for example by capturing the signal sent to a DAC under both circumstances.

 

This is certainly possible, because all things are possible with software (although nothing is easy). It seems rather implausible, because normal bugs would not reverse polarity in any digital signal processing that I've ever looked out. But who knows?

 

BTW, I am a firm believer in audibility of polarity, with many recordings and some speaker systems. (Comment does not apply to phase incoherent recordings or to phase incoherent speakers, of which there are many.)

[mansr]

It would be very helpful if you could give specific examples of how to elicit this effect that you have found to be repeatable. If so, then there would be specific experiments that could be performed to measure and document the polarity reversal, for example by capturing the signal sent to a DAC under both circumstances.

 

This is certainly possible, because all things are possible with software (although nothing is easy). It seems rather implausible, because normal bugs would not reverse polarity in any digital signal processing that I've ever looked out. But who knows?

 

I've done a fair amount of work on audio codecs, and accidentally inverting the polarity is actually quite easy (and even easier to spot if you compare the output to a reference digitally rather than merely listening to it). However, having a the polarity flip depending on whether a high-level playback manager is working off an "album" or a "playlist" seems exceedingly unlikely.

[Jud]

I understand phase change is NOT measurable by instruments.

 

 

 

Same filter/SRC software, just two different phase settings (intermediate above, linear below). So, easily measurable.

 

Edit: These graphs are from SRC Comparisons

[Tony Lauck]

I've done a fair amount of work on audio codecs, and accidentally inverting the polarity is actually quite easy (and even easier to spot if you compare the output to a reference digitally rather than merely listening to it). However, having a the polarity flip depending on whether a high-level playback manager is working off an "album" or a "playlist" seems exceedingly unlikely.

 

That's been my experience as well.

[francisleung]

Let’s be mindful this is Mario’s thread and we should not hijack it to talk about phase inversion at length. Let me assure subscribers here that Mario’s tracks I have heard so far are all IN PHASE.

 

This is my last post in this thread on phase, mainly to respond to the couple of posts before me. If there is continued interest in this matter, would someone please start a new thread specially on this subject.

 

First, my own experience and examples.

I became aware of polarity in the days I still played LPs. Many of them had the absolute phase reversed and on the cover of each one I had to mark the phase.

Having paid attention regularly to this matter and trained myself in listening for it, I can say I am able to identify it quite readily.

Two years ago, a DAC manufacturer circulated a ready for production prototype for listening by audiophiles in our local circle. Initial comments were negative. Having read the adverse comments in the local forum I asked the manufacturer to terminate passing the unit around and have it sent to me. The main culprit I found was phase inversion. I changed the phase of all the tracks put through it and played them to a close friend/associate of the manufacturer, (obviating the need for the manufacturer to fly over). With correct phase there were no more issues concerning lack of bass and punch, recessed voice etc. In fact this R2R DAC was really good and sounded marginally better than the one I had been using.

A year ago, I also spotted the SRC software I purchased had the phase inverted. I contacted the manufacturer about this and other issues. Some 8 revisions entailed in the month and the final version that I got at the time had a phase change function.

Several months ago, I visited the Rockport room in the local audio show. The LP playing an orchestral piece had the phase inverted. I then mentioned it to the exhibitor and he gladly changed the phase in the pre-amp to get it right.

I do not mention names above because in recent years I learned not to quote names as thereby I may either promote their products or step on them.

 

Tony Lauck requested specific examples of tracks for repeating the experiment.

Hrx 96 of Reference Recordings may do—Rachmaninoff Symphonic Dances. This one has inverted phase. I played it at the studio of a local loudspeaker manufacturer, where he had a MSB IV DAC. The transport is able to read this ROM disk directly. The out of phase phenomenon had the soundstage wall to wall but shallow, and layering of players in the orchestra was squeezed to the back wall. Switching the phase with the remote, the layering came into place, though the width of the soundstage was narrower.

 

Just now I played Mario's Ideale tenor track. On the fly I switched repeatedly between "my music" album mode and "playlists" mode. In album mode the singer stands just behind the plane of the speakers and harmonics of the voice and piano come forth into the ambience between me and the speakers. In the "playlists" mode, the singer steps back two to three feet and ambience of the voice and piano do NOT cross beyond the plane of the speakers.

[Tony Lauck]

I'm not interested in specific tracks that are inverted phase (or not) nor what that means, since there being no standard for polarity this has to do with the particular playback system used.

 

My interest was specifically an experiment that one could perform with specific software that produces different phase playback according to the sequences of user actions. I don't care whether the polarity is "right" or "wrong" at any given point in the experiment, just that it changes. (And this can absolutely be verified to 100% accuracy by taking an SPDIF output going to a DAC and looping it back and recording it (or recording it on a second computer. Then one can inspect individual samples in the file with any audio editor and immediately note polarity reversals when comparing two versions.)

 

I won't say more. It belongs on another thread. Personally, I don't care one iota about what iTunes does or doesn't do as I don't and won't use Apple products. I also don't care whether a particular recording is "in phase" or not. If I can tell that it's out of phase it's just one mouse click to fix.

[Sal1950]

I won't say more. It belongs on another thread. Personally, I don't care one iota about what iTunes does or doesn't do as I don't and won't use Apple products.

 

OUCH, I don't think I've ever heard that kind of venom towards Apple coming from a follower of the Order of the Dark Sith Lords - Microsoft. LOL

[sbgk]

Last night I was finally able to listen attentively to the "Iberia" recording.

The music has a real spanish taste, unlike some "Spanish" works by foreign composers that are plagued with obvious clichés.

The sounds is very "natural" both in tone, dynamics and perspective and without the exaggerated detail that has become so fashionable; I don't remember ever listening to the mechanical noise made by instrument at live performances, even when I was sitting very close, and yet people are obsessed about these hyper-realistic, unmusical noises.

You also seem to get the tonal balance right, with a gentle roll-off at the top that sounds very "realistic".

It might be a matter of taste but I find that many "classical" music recordings have an exaggerated top octave sound that makes them sound "unnatural" and sometimes quite unpleasant.

Overall I find that the sound quality matches the best piano recordings I have listened to.

 

Cheers,

Ricardo

 

I get quite a lot of mechanical noises coming through, not that I mind. Surprised at how much the notes merge into each other, guess that's just the music, though. Interesting recording, growing to like it. Listening to it in 16/44.1 which might have affected the sound a little bit.

[francisleung]

In concerts I normally sit at first or second row, about 12 ft from the Steinway grand.

I am able to hear two rows of what both of you described as "mechanical noises". One row is fingers on the black and white keys and the other, hammers striking the strings with vibration sound and harmonics resulting. My left shoulder is perpendicular either to the keys or the hammers

As I mentioned in a post here earlier, the Iberia track has these sounds much more conspicuous than live, thus I thought the microphones were placed very close.

[Mario Martinez]

Happy new year to all of you !!

 

I would like to share a new sample. This time we recorded some rock.

 

Here is the sketch for the recording. From left to right it is drums, electric bass, and electric guitar.

 

 

The drums are Gretsch Renown '57. The cymbals are Zildjian K series. (same as in the drums sample)

The guitar is a Gibson Les Paul with Humbucker pickups and a Boss GT-10 pedal.

The amp is a Marshall JCM2000 TSL100 with a Marshall 1960A cabinet.

 

We have recorded this sample the same way we record everything else. We have used the same fixed setup (stage-hall-mic) and the same fixed recording chain (from mic to master) as we always do without any dynamic range compression. The only thing that is different is the fact that we had to lower the mic gain by 24dB. So please keep in mind that what you are hearing is the sound of a rock band playing on the stage of a chamber music hall. We are not trying to record the instruments, we are trying to record the sound of the hall.

 

Who wants to try this one?

[AndyS]

Yes please Mario...

[Mario Martinez]

Hi Andy, I just sent it to you, thanks for listening

[mansr]

I'd like to try the rock sample, please.

[jtm]

Hi Mario,

 

Happy New Year to you and your team !

 

Yes, please, I would like to try the rock sample.

 

 

Thank you for your continuous support !

 

 

Happy new year to all of you !!

 

I would like to share a new sample. This time we recorded some rock.

 

Here is the sketch for the recording. From left to right it is drums, electric bass, and electric guitar.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23147[/ATTACH]

 

The drums are Gretsch Renown '57. The cymbals are Zildjian K series. (same as in the drums sample)

The guitar is a Gibson Les Paul with Humbucker pickups and a Boss GT-10 pedal.

The amp is a Marshall JCM2000 TSL100 with a Marshall 1960A cabinet.

 

We have recorded this sample the same way we record everything else. We have used the same fixed setup (stage-hall-mic) and the same fixed recording chain (from mic to master) as we always do without any dynamic range compression. The only thing that is different is the fact that we had to lower the mic gain by 24dB. So please keep in mind that what you are hearing is the sound of a rock band playing on the stage of a chamber music hall. We are not trying to record the instruments, we are trying to record the sound of the hall.

 

Who wants to try this one?

[Jud]

Absolutely, Mario, would love to try it.

 

Edit: I don't see a bass guitar/amp description.

[Mario Martinez]

Absolutely, Mario, would love to try it.

 

Edit: I don't see a bass guitar/amp description.

 

 

 

I am on it. I will post it as soon as I have it

[qdwieertteyrujpo]

Mario,

 

Happy New Year to you, too!

Would certainly love to listen to rock.

 

Regards,

Dieter

[goldsdad]

Hi Mario. HNY! Please send a code for the rock recording.

[Solstice380]

I am also interested in the rock recording. It will be nice to hear rock recorded at its best!

 

Happy New Year and thanks!

[Mario Martinez]

Here is the info about the electric bass:

 

The bass is a Yamaha TRB. The amp is a Mark Bass TSA500. The cabinet is a Mark Bass New York 804.

[Mario Martinez]

I have been asked and yes, we are still giving out codes for the albums. This is how we are doing so far:

 

We have given out 133 albums: 67 for Albéniz Iberia, 27 for Cabrera plays Debussy, 20 for Debussy Préludes, 12 for Chopin Polish Songs and 7 for Songs of Paolo Tosti. In addition to the albums we have also given out 62 flamenco samples, 18 drums samples and 7 rock samples.

 

If you do not have an album yet please go ahead and ask for one. And if you are interested in the experimental samples please go ahead and ask for them I will be happy to send them to you.

 

Thank you all for listening, this is a wonderful experience

[Odissyus]

Would love to hear it. Thanks!

 

-Odysseus

[firedog]

Totally interested to see how rock sounds in your system. Please. And Thanks in advance.

[Sal1950]

Happy new year to all of you !!

 

I would like to share a new sample. This time we recorded some rock.

 

Here is the sketch for the recording. From left to right it is drums, electric bass, and electric guitar.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23147[/ATTACH]

 

The drums are Gretsch Renown '57. The cymbals are Zildjian K series. (same as in the drums sample)

The guitar is a Gibson Les Paul with Humbucker pickups and a Boss GT-10 pedal.

The amp is a Marshall JCM2000 TSL100 with a Marshall 1960A cabinet.

 

We have recorded this sample the same way we record everything else. We have used the same fixed setup (stage-hall-mic) and the same fixed recording chain (from mic to master) as we always do without any dynamic range compression. The only thing that is different is the fact that we had to lower the mic gain by 24dB. So please keep in mind that what you are hearing is the sound of a rock band playing on the stage of a chamber music hall. We are not trying to record the instruments, we are trying to record the sound of the hall.

 

Who wants to try this one?

 

OH NO, ROCK? I'll have to get out my Klipsch Heresy speakers. LOL

Yes please, I'd like to audition your files of the King of Music.