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Mario Martinez

PlayClassics master file giveaway for CA members

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If you wish to analise the audio spectrum you can use Spek:

 

Spek – Free Acoustic Spectrum Analyzer / Spectrogram Viewer

 

R

 

Thanks, just installed to my Linux system, will play with it and learn my way around.


"The gullibility of audiophiles is what astonishes me the most, even after all these years. How is it possible, how did it ever happen, that they trust fairy-tale purveyors and mystic gurus more than reliable sources of scientific information?"

Peter Aczel - The Audio Critic

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So far we have an "after measurement" file with the full dynamic range of the performance and a "normalized" file with a low cut filter and a little bit of dynamic range compression. I think we can safely use the "normalized" file as our "Normalized Master", but I think the "after measurement" file can still be improved to become a better "Truthful Master".

 

We never use low cut filters on our classical music recordings. The response of our hall is supposed to be flat to the bottom of the spectrum and our mics are placed far enough from the instruments not to be affected by the proximity effect. The problem with this rock instruments is (again) how loud they are. Even though our mics are placed away from the instruments with levels this loud we could be suffering from this proximity effect.

 

The purpose of applying the low cut filters to the "normalized" file was to help reduce the dynamic range. The amount of energy under 100Hz was so huge that after applying the low cut filter by itself (without any dynamic range compression) I had already obtained 2dB of headroom on the file. That alone makes me think that we are in fact suffering from this proximity effect so applying this low cut filter to the "after measurement" file would actually bring us closer to the true sound of the instruments. If this is so, then we would have a better "Truthful Master" plus we would be able to raise the volume by 2dB without the use of any dynamic range compression.

 

I will apply these low cut filters to the "after measurement" and post as soon as I have them

 

 

First thing I did was run some tests to try to figure out what the source of the problem was. I measured the hall again this time focusing on the response under 100Hz. The problem is the same as before. The drums and bass have so much power under 100Hz that they are overriding the acoustic structures built on the hall to control room modes at those frequencies.

 

Instead of applying a low cut, I have used the results of this 2nd measurement to develop a filter that would correct this deviation. I have applied this new filter to the "after measurement" version of the Drums and Rock samples. This new "2nd measurement" version is 3dB louder than the "after measurement" version without the use of any dynamic range compression. If it does work we would have our first Rock "Truthful Masters".

 

Who wants to try?

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I'd like to listen to this latest optimisation, please.

 

Cheers,

Ricardo


"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes

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Hi Ricardo, thanks for listening. I just sent it to you.

 

Unless you guys find something that I have not jet seen, I think we may have solved all the problems these instruments caused on our hall. If everything is correct, the sound of these samples should now be consistent with the sound of our classical recordings. I am excited to see how this one works :)

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Hi Mario, I just downloaded all the rest, and would like the link to the latest version to complete my collection. :) I think I will have some time to listen tomorrow.


One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> eero Pro router -> EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> USPCB -> ISO Regen (powered by LPS-1) -> Ghent JSSG360 USB cable -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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Who wants to try?

I'll do my best if you want to send it.


"The gullibility of audiophiles is what astonishes me the most, even after all these years. How is it possible, how did it ever happen, that they trust fairy-tale purveyors and mystic gurus more than reliable sources of scientific information?"

Peter Aczel - The Audio Critic

no-mqa-sm.jpg

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Drum track 3 “second measurement” (sm) versus “normalised” (nor)

For the sm I set the gain at -5 whilst the nor at -9 as before. At this level, the cymbals still sound softer and have less splash than in the nor but the kick drum is already much louder and more forward. For my taste -5 is about right and higher gain will become overbearing.

Although the opening snare sounds louder and has more impact in the nor, the drumhead and rim shots are spread wider. So the sm has more correct image size on this count.

Hanging and side toms are distinguishable with similar easiness in both versions.

From 3.4 minutes, the high hat, the occasional hit on the centre cymbal and rim shots have their images located close to the drummer. This would be a useful tool for evaluating the dispersion performance of high frequencies of speaker systems. I expect many will have these reproduced widely spread from each other and not focussed in the centre as in the sm. The worst one may even have the cymbal stuck to the speaker cabinet, rim shots in the centre of the stage and the high hat at the far corner.

I have put the sm in the playlist, replacing the nor.

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The original drum recording is explosive. A rambunctious thrill ride to be sure. I want to go around again [emoji4]

 

Mario - could I get a copy of the latest drums and rock versions?

 

I read that OK Computer was recorded in various churches and halls... I can only imagine what it may have sounded using your Truthful Recording method.


 

Mac mini (Sierra on SD card, A+) -> Bridge to UltraRendu -> Burson Conductor ->

S.A.T. Infinity monoblocks -> Gallo Stradas + TR-3 sub

 

 

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We will be happy to send a Gift Code to all CA members who would be willing to try the Truthful Recording Technology sound on their systems.

 

Just send us a PM with the album of your choice and we will send you a Gift Code to download the full dynamic range 24bit 96kHz Truthful Master.

 

All we want in exchange is to get as much feedback as possible. It would be great if we could get your testimonials to include them on our web page.

 

PlayClassics, the art of true music

 

Count me in for Iberia by Albéniz...and thanks


Jay Tee

 

DAC: Mojo Audio Mystique V2; Benchmark DAC1-USB, Audiophilleo2 with Pure Power / Regen

Preamplifier: Music First Audio passive V2

Amplifier(s): Sanders Electrostatic; Musical Fidelity

Speakers: Magneplanar 1.7/Hsu vTF2 sub

Interconnects: Morrow; Curious; Mapleshade;

Loudspeaker Cables: Audioquest

Power Cables: Shunyata, Morrow & Mapleshade

Remote Control Apps: Auralic Lightning

Miscellaneous: Bespoke Plixir balanced power unit for source equip.

Aries music on directly connected SSD with independent power from Uptone Audio JS-2.

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Hi Ricardo, thanks for listening. I just sent it to you.

 

Unless you guys find something that I have not jet seen, I think we may have solved all the problems these instruments caused on our hall. If everything is correct, the sound of these samples should now be consistent with the sound of our classical recordings. I am excited to see how this one works :)

 

Hi Mario,

 

I've just given the tracks a good listen and I'm content with the sound quality you've been able to achieve with these 2nd measurement versions of both Rock and Drums recordings.

I must confess that I didn't expect you'd be able to pull it off with the rock recording.

 

The sound is naturally balanced tonal wise, the dynamics are credible and you seem to have cured the excessive low frequency "bloom"; the rock recording sounds less "perfect" and perhaps a bit "wetter" than a studio version but I like the "rawness" which brings it closer to the sound of a live performance that you'd listen in a club.

It's a pity that the rock band didn't have a singer...

 

Have you played these latest versions to the performers?

What was their opinion?

 

Cheers,

Ricardo


"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes

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First thing I did was run some tests to try to figure out what the source of the problem was. I measured the hall again this time focusing on the response under 100Hz. The problem is the same as before. The drums and bass have so much power under 100Hz that they are overriding the acoustic structures built on the hall to control room modes at those frequencies.

 

Instead of applying a low cut, I have used the results of this 2nd measurement to develop a filter that would correct this deviation. I have applied this new filter to the "after measurement" version of the Drums and Rock samples. This new "2nd measurement" version is 3dB louder than the "after measurement" version without the use of any dynamic range compression. If it does work we would have our first Rock "Truthful Masters".

 

Who wants to try?

 

Once again, thanks for the offer, Mario. Please send the link.

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Loving the better treble/bass balance on the 2nd measurement drum recordings. Nice work Mario [emoji4]


 

Mac mini (Sierra on SD card, A+) -> Bridge to UltraRendu -> Burson Conductor ->

S.A.T. Infinity monoblocks -> Gallo Stradas + TR-3 sub

 

 

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Drum track 3 “second measurement” (sm) versus “normalised” (nor)

For the sm I set the gain at -5 whilst the nor at -9 as before. At this level, the cymbals still sound softer and have less splash than in the nor but the kick drum is already much louder and more forward. For my taste -5 is about right and higher gain will become overbearing.

Although the opening snare sounds louder and has more impact in the nor, the drumhead and rim shots are spread wider. So the sm has more correct image size on this count.

Hanging and side toms are distinguishable with similar easiness in both versions.

From 3.4 minutes, the high hat, the occasional hit on the centre cymbal and rim shots have their images located close to the drummer. This would be a useful tool for evaluating the dispersion performance of high frequencies of speaker systems. I expect many will have these reproduced widely spread from each other and not focussed in the centre as in the sm. The worst one may even have the cymbal stuck to the speaker cabinet, rim shots in the centre of the stage and the high hat at the far corner.

I have put the sm in the playlist, replacing the nor.

 

 

Thank you Francis, I am glad you liked this "2nd measurement" version best.

 

The problem with these Drums and Rock samples is how loud the instruments are. At such high levels the response of our hall is not flat anymore. The sound on the first versions was being affected by this deviation. The filters used on this last version are able to correct this deviation. Now that the problem is solved we can use this "2nd measurement" version as our "Truthful Master" with the full dynamic range of the performance. :)

Edited by Mario Martinez

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Hi Mario,

 

I've just given the tracks a good listen and I'm content with the sound quality you've been able to achieve with these 2nd measurement versions of both Rock and Drums recordings.

I must confess that I didn't expect you'd be able to pull it off with the rock recording.

 

The sound is naturally balanced tonal wise, the dynamics are credible and you seem to have cured the excessive low frequency "bloom"; the rock recording sounds less "perfect" and perhaps a bit "wetter" than a studio version but I like the "rawness" which brings it closer to the sound of a live performance that you'd listen in a club.

It's a pity that the rock band didn't have a singer...

 

Have you played these latest versions to the performers?

What was their opinion?

 

Cheers,

Ricardo

 

 

This experiment has been a lot of fun. I hope those of you who have followed it have had fun too. You never know where you are going to end up when you deal with sound :)

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This experiment has been a lot of fun. I hope those of you who have followed it have had fun too. You never know where you are going to end up when you deal with sound :)

 

Thanks for letting us participate and I hope our input was valuable. Spent some time listening to the 2nd meas files but hadn't had the time to finalize my opinions and put my thoughts together. But bottom line I was going to say that I thought they were overall the best yet so I think that filter version will make a good base for your Truthful Masters.

Be well and best wishes,

Sal


"The gullibility of audiophiles is what astonishes me the most, even after all these years. How is it possible, how did it ever happen, that they trust fairy-tale purveyors and mystic gurus more than reliable sources of scientific information?"

Peter Aczel - The Audio Critic

no-mqa-sm.jpg

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Now that we have finished the experiment I would like to include these "Truthful Masters" of the Drums and Rock samples into out giveaway offer. This is how we are doing so far:

 

We have given out 142 albums: 73 for Albéniz Iberia, 29 for Cabrera plays Debussy, 20 for Debussy Préludes, 12 for Chopin Polish Songs and 8 for Songs of Paolo Tosti. In addition to the albums we have also given out 64 flamenco samples, 7 drums samples and 7 rock samples.

 

If you do not have an album yet please go ahead and ask for one I will be happy to send it to you :)

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I would be grateful for an opportunity to download the Albeniz Iberia music as well as the flamenco, drum and rock samples.

 

I am curious to compare the Jason McGuire Blue Coast wav files (44.1 kHz/16bit) recordings to your flamenco samples.

 

Thanks

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Thank you Francis, I am glad you liked this "2nd measurement" version best.

 

The problem with these Drums and Rock samples is how loud the instruments are. At such high levels the response of our hall is not flat anymore. The sound on the first versions was being affected by this deviation. The filters used on this last version are able to correct this deviation. Now that the problem is solved we can use this "2nd measurement" version as our "Truthful Master" with the full dynamic range of the performance. :)

 

Yes, Mario, I understand live pop and rock concerts are very loud in order to be heard clearly by an audience of 20 thousand or more as they are often staged in open playgrounds or stadiums. Singers actually sing softly into the mic with large amplification so as to preserve their voice for consecutive gigs. True live sound is distorted and deafening; and what we usually hear via DVD of such live concerts is untrue at all.

Jazz may not be as loud, for example, the Duke Ellington Band concert in a stadium that I attended several years ago.

And I appreciate your efforts in capturing a sound as “live” as possible.

If you would apply your new “filtering” to the flamenco tracks, that should be interesting as I believe that would bring forward the female voice as that would, the cymbal and snare in the drum track.

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Yes, Mario, I understand live pop and rock concerts are very loud in order to be heard clearly by an audience of 20 thousand or more as they are often staged in open playgrounds or stadiums. Singers actually sing softly into the mic with large amplification so as to preserve their voice for consecutive gigs. True live sound is distorted and deafening; and what we usually hear via DVD of such live concerts is untrue at all.

I take it your exposure to live popular music concerts is somewhat limited. I've attended many live concerts that were neither distorted or deafening.


"The gullibility of audiophiles is what astonishes me the most, even after all these years. How is it possible, how did it ever happen, that they trust fairy-tale purveyors and mystic gurus more than reliable sources of scientific information?"

Peter Aczel - The Audio Critic

no-mqa-sm.jpg

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Yes, Mario, I understand live pop and rock concerts are very loud in order to be heard clearly by an audience of 20 thousand or more as they are often staged in open playgrounds or stadiums. Singers actually sing softly into the mic with large amplification so as to preserve their voice for consecutive gigs. True live sound is distorted and deafening; and what we usually hear via DVD of such live concerts is untrue at all.

 

I take it your exposure to live popular music concerts is somewhat limited. I've attended many live concerts that were neither distorted or deafening.

 

I don't attend many rock/alternative concerts but I agree with Francis that most are too loud and some are actually painful to listen to; I am almost certain that I have had to cover my ears at least once in all the latest concerts I've been to (i.e. Devendra Banhart, The Tindersticks).

 

But this has also happened a few times at the cinema, and quite often at audio shows...people are just getting deafer, particularly those in the sound industry.

 

R


"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes

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