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Optimal LPS voltage to power REGEN


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My apologies for bumping this question. I posted this query in a general REGEN thread yesterday, but only received two responses. I know a lot of folks here are now using the Chinese regulated linear power supplies, most of which have user-adjustable output voltages, for their REGENs.

 

My DAC does not draw 5V USB for power or handshake. In this mode, UpTone says the device will function between 3.3V and 12V. We know that the stock MeanWell SMPS puts out approx. 7.5V, and the UpTone PS optimizer in development will output 7V.

 

So, I'm curious as to what voltage others have zeroed in on for optimum SQ with the amber REGEN, and why.

Of the two responses so far, one was ambiguous (either 9V or 12V) and the other was 7.5V.

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In one of the REGEN threads, John recently said:

 

"If your DAC does not use ANY VBUS power (power over the USB cable) then you can use this supply. The internal components in the REGEN all run off 3.3V, supplied by a very good linear regulator. Feeding this regulator 5V is fine.

 

But, the VBUS power line in the USB cable is fed by another regulator set to 5V. When you feed a 5V regulator with 5V it does not work right. You usually wind up with a voltage lower than 5V, AND it is not regulated.

 

The upshot is that if the DAC uses the 5V VBUS power in any way, you cannot feed 5V into the REGEN. If the DAC doesn't use VBUS AT ALL, then feeding 5V into the REGEN is fine."

 

My REGEN arrives tomorrow I plan to use a 5V LPS. The USB board in my DAC is powered (actually two power supplies because of the galvanic isolation).

Eric


Ubuntu Linux box (i7-12700K, 12 cores, 32GB RAM, Intel X520-DA1 NIC, HQP Desktop) > fiber > MikroTik CRS305-1G-4S+ > fiber > fitlet2 (HQP Embedded OS - NAA) > T+A DAC8 DSD > Rogue Audio DragoN > Klipsch La Scala — digital volume control with HQP, DSP with HQP convolution 

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I have used the Meanwell and the HD Plex and prefer the Hd-Plex. I have adjusted the voltage from 7.0 to 8.5 and thru my main system I cannot seem to hear any differences between that voltage range. But when i listen thru My Ayre Codex and Senn HD 800 headphone system and the HD Plex the imaging became more precise, clear and the background was blacker with the voltage adjusted to 7.3 volts or less. A of days ago I made an adapter and connected a 5200 mah 7.4 Li ion battery pack to the Regen and i must say all aspects improved slightly more.

A flaw in reasoning is a mistake in how conclusions are derived from assumptions, not a mistake in assumptions.

 

AB835

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A of days ago I made an adapter and connected a 5200 mah 7.4 Li ion battery pack to the Regen and i must say all aspects improved slightly more.

 

I have found the same, but in my case I am using the Regen differently. I am ripping .wav files directly to a USB memory stick using the Regen in line, then playing the .wav files back the same way, or then plugging the Memory stick and Regen into the USB input of an Oppo 103 which is used as a Transport.

I am however using a 12V Li Ion 4,000mAh battery which is regulated down to 9V to keep the output voltage to the Regen constant as the terminal voltage of the battery drops after a period of use. Others have reported that a higher quality Xtal Oscillator for the Regen results in further improvements. Keeping the supply voltage to the Regen rock steady at all times should also offer similar improvements ?

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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Screen shot 2015-11-01 at 8.11.40 AM.png

Thanks to the few who responded to my question.

Note that if you want to open this unit, you'll need a Torx #10 as well as a Philips #1 screwdriver. To adjust the output voltage, you need a tiny flathead screwdriver, like from an eyeglasses repair kit. Turn the brass screw on the output voltage pot clockwise to lower the voltage.

With mine set at 7.3V, there's a slight improvement in instrument separation and soundstage imaging over the MeanWell on my main system. I haven't tried it on my headphone rig.

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[ATTACH=CONFIG]21917[/ATTACH]

Thanks to the few who responded to my question.

Note that if you want to open this unit, you'll need a Torx #10 as well as a Philips #1 screwdriver. To adjust the output voltage, you need a tiny flathead screwdriver, like from an eyeglasses repair kit. Turn the brass screw on the output voltage pot clockwise to lower the voltage.

With mine set at 7.3V, there's a slight improvement in instrument separation and soundstage imaging over the MeanWell on my main system. I haven't tried it on my headphone rig.

 

I am glad to see you got it. I hope you feel it was worthwhile. Does your M51 draw a lot of current? I am wondering why you turned it down so much.

Forrest:

Win10 i9 9900KS/GTX1060 HQPlayer4>Win10 NAA

DSD>Pavel's DSC2.6>Bent Audio TAP>

Parasound JC1>"Naked" Quad ESL63/Tannoy PS350B subs<100Hz

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I am glad to see you got it. I hope you feel it was worthwhile. Does your M51 draw a lot of current? I am wondering why you turned it down so much.

 

My thanks to you for hooking me up.

It was definitely worthwhile. The more I listen to it, the improved clarity over the stock SMPS is increasingly evident. Clearly an upgrade.

 

My NAD M51 draws no 5V from the USB port. I figured that a lot of folks that bought these left it at 9V because they might need extra power feed to their DAC, or just couldn't be bothered to change it. I vagely remember one member here stating in an earlier thread that he liked the REGEN at 5V.

 

When I first powered the Breeze up, it read 9.44V on the display. I wanted to hear an apples-to-apples comparison to the 7.5V MeanWell, and really I didn't want to mess with the voltage pot too much; That one tiny component seems a bit cheezy. Perhaps one day I will experiment with it a bit more, but for now, post #3 in this thread convinced me that I was thinking correctly, and also the fact that UpTone says that their mystery PS is going to put out 7V. The REGEN is their baby, they should know.

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Received my REGEN yesterday and powered it with what looks like the same Breeze Audio LPS set at 5V. It all sounds great but haven't done any comparisons. But REGEN will work at 5V, unit stays cool - room temperature.

 

Note that my DAC does not use the USB power leg, in fact I have taped over the number 1 pin on both the USB cable from the Cubox & the hard adaptor from the REGEN.

Eric


Ubuntu Linux box (i7-12700K, 12 cores, 32GB RAM, Intel X520-DA1 NIC, HQP Desktop) > fiber > MikroTik CRS305-1G-4S+ > fiber > fitlet2 (HQP Embedded OS - NAA) > T+A DAC8 DSD > Rogue Audio DragoN > Klipsch La Scala — digital volume control with HQP, DSP with HQP convolution 

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I am happy to hear that you found it worthwhile. FWIW, my DAC does draw a little power, and I have run mine at 9.5V 24/7 for months with no problems. I prefer the higher voltage. I think it sounds a little better run warmer than at 7.5 volts and JS said he thinks it is plausible.

Forrest:

Win10 i9 9900KS/GTX1060 HQPlayer4>Win10 NAA

DSD>Pavel's DSC2.6>Bent Audio TAP>

Parasound JC1>"Naked" Quad ESL63/Tannoy PS350B subs<100Hz

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I am happy to hear that you found it worthwhile. FWIW, my DAC does draw a little power, and I have run mine at 9.5V 24/7 for months with no problems. I prefer the higher voltage. I think it sounds a little better run warmer than at 7.5 volts and JS said he thinks it is plausible.

 

Good to know, 4est, thanks for that info.

 

Since it's new, I'm going to let it break in for some time before I experiment with the voltage output. I need to get used to the refinement in SQ it has already made over the MeanWell before I can evaluate any furthur improvement.

 

If Alex C. or John S. read this thread, your thoughts on this subject would be useful.

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IIRC, it was not as big a change as going away from the MW.

Good to know, 4est, thanks for that info.

 

Since it's new, I'm going to let it break in for some time before I experiment with the voltage output. I need to get used to the refinement in SQ it has already made over the MeanWell before I can evaluate any furthur improvement.

 

If Alex C. or John S. read this thread, your thoughts on this subject would be useful.

Forrest:

Win10 i9 9900KS/GTX1060 HQPlayer4>Win10 NAA

DSD>Pavel's DSC2.6>Bent Audio TAP>

Parasound JC1>"Naked" Quad ESL63/Tannoy PS350B subs<100Hz

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BTW, don't put too much trust in many of those Digital Voltage displays, as some of these little cheap additions are reported to be very inaccurate !

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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There may be two things working against each other.

 

In MOST cases digital circuits used in audio will sound better when warm. The higher the temperature of the transistors the slower they are, this results in lower power supply current spikes when they switch, which gives lower noise on the power and ground circuits.

 

According to this you should run the voltage higher, which will result in more power being dissipated in the voltage regulator(s), thus raising the temperature of the circuits on the board. After making a change give it at LEAST 3 hours time to reach thermal equilibrium before listening to the sound. 8 hours would be even better.

 

Opposing this is noise from the regulator of the power supply. Most regulator circuits (not all, but most) will have increased noise as the voltage rises. For some the rise is small, but for others it can be quite large.

 

The increased noise from raising the voltage in the regulator may be counteracting the reduced noise due to higher chip temperature.

 

This may be why some people report better sound with higher voltage and others hear better sound with lower voltage.

 

John S.

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John,

Thank you for posting that interesting information. This is what makes this forum so great. Actually learning something makes this hobby all the more satisfying for me.

Since I listen to my stereo almost every day, I'll now be sure to keep the REGEN LPS powered on all the time, rather than switching it on and off. My computer, DAC, and amp, as well, are always powered in standby/sleep mode for the same reasons as you explained.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I want to update my post #6 in this thread for both of you who might be interested.

 

First, I misspoke concerning opening up the Breeze "El Cheapo" PS. You don't need a Torx driver, you use a 2.5mm allen key to remove the bolts on the front. You only need to undo the top two bolts on the front and back plate to remove the cover.

 

Second, after some testing, I upped the voltage to 8V to get the best SQ with my REGEN/NAD M51. The PS goes up to 10V, but the REGEN spec's 6-8V, so I'm leaving it at 8V, especially since my DAC uses no USB power.

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I get great results when using +9V from a linear PSU or a 12V Li Ion battery regulated down to +9V. Even when the Regen is powering a Corsair Voyager USB memory stick when saving CD rips to it , or playing from it, it only gets lukewarm. The same when powering a 120GB USB SSD.

Alex

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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Could somebody help me out with a link to the Breeze PS. I tried ebay but just see different models. Google search doesn't seem to bring up anything but a few resales ( already sold) Thanks in advance

Russ

Melco N1A EX H60 server > EtherREGEN >Bricasti M3 w/ Network card > Coda CsIB > Paradigm Personas 5f, Combak Harmonica Footers, Townshend Podiums, Iconoclast 4x4 UPOCC XLR cable, Townshend F1 Fractal speaker cables  SoTM dBl7 Ethernet cable, Puritan 156, Farad 3 LPS,  Synergistic and Triode wire labs power cabling 

 

 

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Could somebody help me out with a link to the Breeze PS. I tried ebay but just see different models. Google search doesn't seem to bring up anything but a few resales ( already sold)

 

Try:

http://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/141503525422

Digital:  Sonore opticalModule > Uptone EtherRegen > Shunyata Sigma Ethernet > Antipodes K30 > Shunyata Omega USB > Gustard X26pro DAC 

Amp & Speakers:  Spectral DMA-150mk2 > Aerial 10T

Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra, Shunyata Denali power conditioner, Shunyata Alpha and Delta power cords, Shunyata Alpha interconnect, Shunyata Sigma Ethernet, MIT Matrix HD60 speaker cables, ASC isothermal tube traps, Stillpoints Aperture panels

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Thanks guys ..ordered.

Melco N1A EX H60 server > EtherREGEN >Bricasti M3 w/ Network card > Coda CsIB > Paradigm Personas 5f, Combak Harmonica Footers, Townshend Podiums, Iconoclast 4x4 UPOCC XLR cable, Townshend F1 Fractal speaker cables  SoTM dBl7 Ethernet cable, Puritan 156, Farad 3 LPS,  Synergistic and Triode wire labs power cabling 

 

 

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Hey neighbor!

 

Watch the display. Both of my units crept up in voltage(>.5v) over a day or so. You may need to turn it down if the DAC requires any power. One of mine went to 9.9v from 9.1v and stayed there...

Thanks guys ..ordered.

Forrest:

Win10 i9 9900KS/GTX1060 HQPlayer4>Win10 NAA

DSD>Pavel's DSC2.6>Bent Audio TAP>

Parasound JC1>"Naked" Quad ESL63/Tannoy PS350B subs<100Hz

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Hey neighbor!

 

Watch the display. Both of my units crept up in voltage(>.5v) over a day or so. You may need to turn it down if the DAC requires any power. One of mine went to 9.9v from 9.1v and stayed there...

 

Have experienced the same, though I think it was more like .25v than .8v.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical to EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> ISO Regen -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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  • 2 weeks later...

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