Design a PC/Server for ROON and HQ Player

[xiddox]

Hi folks, I'm on the cusp of ordering parts for a high powered silent PC for running hqplayer (2 channel only, upsample to DSD512, possible convolve), roon, tidal and Acourate, and I'm looking for feedback on my plans.

 

I just ordered a Streacom FC10 Alpha fanless case.

 

I'm planning to order:

 

Samsung Pro SSD probably SATA (for easy external power), but possibly M.2 for speed (like Miska?)

CPU: Intel i7 6700K

Motherboard: ASUS Z170M-Plus

 

...

 

I will be running Windows mainly (server 2012 R2), but may also run Linux on occasions.

 

Any comments, suggestions or warnings would be appreciated!

 

sigh, sometimes i hate computers.

 

So i finally bought all the parts above and put everything together.

 

First problem: the PC would not boot. After much wasted time, I discovered that the power switch connector was connected (or labelled) in reverse polarity. Thanks Streacom, not!

 

OK, so got it booting, but the ASUS Bios hits a CPU fan error on every boot because there is no fan connected to the motherboard: hey, i'm using passive cooling, so there never will be a fan! Instructions to set low fan warning to "ignore" does not work. Upgraded BIOS to latest firmware, still does not work. I have tried every combination of fan control settings in the BIOS, still no dice. So i have to hit F1 and then F8 to boot every time. Thanks ASUS.

 

So then I thought I could live with that for a while, and went to install the motherboard drivers. Well, guess what: Windows Server 2012 R2 is not supported by ASUS. I tried troubleshooting compatibility: no dice. Complained to ASUS: tough luck, they say, use a different version of Windows. So I think, who cares, I'll just use the stock Windows drivers, but indeed, Ethernet does not work and needs a driver. Thanks ASUS.

 

... so just in case: is anyone out there using an ASUS Z170M-PLUS motherboard with Windows Server 2012 R2 and/or running it fanless ?

 

- richard

[sydlow]

...

is anyone out there using an ASUS Z170M-PLUS motherboard

Sorry to hear about your troubles. Similar setup here. But using a Gigabyte GA-Z170MX-Gaming 5

[xiddox]

Sorry to hear about your troubles. Similar setup here. But using a Gigabyte GA-Z170MX-Gaming 5

 

Thanks Syd, so you are using R2 and also fanless with an FC10 Aplha case and no issues? If so, then I will probably buy the same motherboard. Fortunately, I am also building a PC for pixelplay, and for him I can use Windows Pro 10 and a different case (with a fan, albeit low speed).

[sydlow]

No, I'm using W10.

And using the FC-9 case with the HT4 Riser with this Mobo.

[tboooe]

... so just in case: is anyone out there using an ASUS Z170M-PLUS motherboard with Windows Server 2012 R2 and/or running it fanless ?

 

- richard

Richard, sorry to hear about your issues. Regarding drivers and Server, have you tried just installing the Win7 or Win10 versions? I have done this several times on my Server Essentials PC with success for various things like USB converterr, DAC, ethernet adapter, etc.

[lmitche]

sigh, sometimes i hate computers.

 

So i finally bought all the parts above and put everything together.

 

First problem: the PC would not boot. After much wasted time, I discovered that the power switch connector was connected (or labelled) in reverse polarity. Thanks Streacom, not!

 

OK, so got it booting, but the ASUS Bios hits a CPU fan error on every boot because there is no fan connected to the motherboard: hey, i'm using passive cooling, so there never will be a fan! Instructions to set low fan warning to "ignore" does not work. Upgraded BIOS to latest firmware, still does not work. I have tried every combination of fan control settings in the BIOS, still no dice. So i have to hit F1 and then F8 to boot every time. Thanks ASUS.

 

So then I thought I could live with that for a while, and went to install the motherboard drivers. Well, guess what: Windows Server 2012 R2 is not supported by ASUS. I tried troubleshooting compatibility: no dice. Complained to ASUS: tough luck, they say, use a different version of Windows. So I think, who cares, I'll just use the stock Windows drivers, but indeed, Ethernet does not work and needs a driver. Thanks ASUS.

 

... so just in case: is anyone out there using an ASUS Z170M-PLUS motherboard with Windows Server 2012 R2 and/or running it fanless ?

 

- richard

While I don't know the details, there is definitely a BIOS setting that will fix your fan problem as I know of others that have done this successfully with this board.

 

Stay tuned, I will inquire and get back to you.

[lmitche]

Setting the fans to ignore on the monitor menu works here with the latest bios. Page 2-39 of the manual explains the settings.

[xiddox]

Setting the fans to ignore on the monitor menu works here with the latest bios. Page 2-39 of the manual explains the settings.

 

bingo! Thank you so much: I had not realised that menu even had selectable options, because all that was displayed was "CPU Fan: N/A" on the screen (only when I select the "N/A" text does the menu become visible). I had been using the Q-Fan submenu.

 

I love that your short post solved my problem, whereas ASUS technical support simply told me that if the BIOS settings didn't solve the issue, then I would have to send the motherboard to them for testing (!)

[xiddox]

Richard, sorry to hear about your issues. Regarding drivers and Server, have you tried just installing the Win7 or Win10 versions? I have done this several times on my Server Essentials PC with success for various things like USB converterr, DAC, ethernet adapter, etc.

 

Thanks - how did you do this? The ASUS setup applications refuse to run, even why I try to run them in W7 or W8 mode (via troubleshooting compatability). I even downloaded the Intel drivers directly from Intel, but the Intel setup app can';t even see that there is an Intel adapter, presumably there is an intermediate driverless hardware component that needs to be configured before the network hardware becomes visible to the setup app...?

 

STOP PRESS: just found a site where he claims to have solved exactly this problem by editing the .inf files. Stand by...

[bibo01]

Thanks - how did you do this? The ASUS setup applications refuse to run, even why I try to run them in W7 or W8 mode (via troubleshooting compatability). I even downloaded the Intel drivers directly from Intel, but the Intel setup app can';t even see that there is an Intel adapter, presumably there is an intermediate driverless hardware component that needs to be configured before the network hardware becomes visible to the setup app...?

 

STOP PRESS: just found a site where he claims to have solved exactly this problem by editing the .inf files. Stand by...

 

Check if this can be useful:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/lan-driver-install-problem-server-2012-a-26919/

[Miska]

When you get tired on fighting with Windows, try Linux. Just for the sake of it... ;D

 

I'm happily using (customized) Ubuntu Studio 16.04...

[xiddox]

STOP PRESS: just found a site where he claims to have solved exactly this problem by editing the .inf files. Stand by...

 

Success! I now have networking. Installing Roon, Media essentials, etc as I type! SO far, so good.

[xiddox]

When you get tired on fighting with Windows, try Linux. Just for the sake of it... ;D

 

I'm happily using (customized) Ubuntu Studio 16.04...

 

Funny you should say that, I'm actually a Linux guy but am trying out Windows for Roon+hqplayer+AO...!

[xiddox]

Funny you should say that, I'm actually a Linux guy but am trying out Windows for Roon+hqplayer+AO...!

 

Actually Miska. If I decided eventually to throw out Windows and use Linux instead, would I be able to replace a hqplayer Windows license with a Linux license?

[bibo01]

Actually Miska. If I decided eventually to throw out Windows and use Linux instead, would I be able to replace a hqplayer Windows license with a Linux license?

 

No, you need to buy a new Mac/Linux license. Miska is going to give you a 50% coupon discount.

[lmitche]

When you get tired on fighting with Windows, try Linux. Just for the sake of it... ;D

 

I'm happily using (customized) Ubuntu Studio 16.04...

Hi Miska,

 

Where does one obtain the customized version of Ubuntu Studio 16.04?

 

Also, does Ubuntu fix the popping issues that plague HQplayer Native DSD output on Archlinux? FYI, I use a IFI microIDSD DAC at DSD512.

 

On Windows, native dsd pops are minimal, usually only occurring between playing tracks of differing resolutions.

 

Thanks, Larry

[xiddox]

When you get tired on fighting with Windows, try Linux. Just for the sake of it... ;D

 

I'm happily using (customized) Ubuntu Studio 16.04...

 

OK, so I took the bait and installed Ubuntu Studio tonight (i'm usually a debian guy, but so far so good).

 

I just installed Roon server, and right now it is scanning my music collection (shared from a Linux-based NAS). The only oddity I have noticed so far is that it seems my .DFF files are not being scanned, whereas they worked fine on OSX. Some quick googling has not revealed anything useful in this regard... Should this just work? I can't see that I have missed installing any packages...

[Miska]

Where does one obtain the customized version of Ubuntu Studio 16.04?

 

You need to manually customize it. Mostly just rip out all remains of pulseaudio and you can install my alternative kernel from here:

https://www.sonarnerd.net/src/xenial/

 

Also, does Ubuntu fix the popping issues that plague HQplayer Native DSD output on Archlinux? FYI, I use a IFI microIDSD DAC at DSD512.

 

On Windows, native dsd pops are minimal, usually only occurring between playing tracks of differing resolutions.

 

I don't know, I use iDSD Micro on my setup and don't have any particular issues. I'm using the line output in fixed mode to a headphone amp.

[Jud]

You need to manually customize it. Mostly just rip out all remains of pulseaudio and you can install my alternative kernel from here:

https://www.sonarnerd.net/src/xenial/

 

 

 

I don't know, I use iDSD Micro on my setup and don't have any particular issues. I'm using the line output in fixed mode to a headphone amp.

 

Miska, can you give a general idea of what the main differences are between your kernel and the low latency kernel? I'm running the low latency kernel with Lubuntu 16.10 and am happy with it, but next April I might like to experiment with yours.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[Miska]

Miska, can you give a general idea of what the main differences are between your kernel and the low latency kernel? I'm running the low latency kernel with Lubuntu 16.10 and am happy with it, but next April I might like to experiment with yours.

 

Mine is vanilla upstream 4.4 from kernel.org, plus latest DSD patches and also includes a new patch I made to fix the hiFace driver.

 

Configuration is based on the Ubuntu lowlatency kernel configuration with very minor changes.

[lmitche]

You need to manually customize it. Mostly just rip out all remains of pulseaudio and you can install my alternative kernel from here:

https://www.sonarnerd.net/src/xenial/

 

 

 

I don't know, I use iDSD Micro on my setup and don't have any particular issues. I'm using the line output in fixed mode to a headphone amp.

Thanks Miska,

 

Very helpful, this gets me started!

 

Larry

[xiddox]

OK, so I took the bait and installed Ubuntu Studio tonight (i'm usually a debian guy, but so far so good).

 

I just installed Roon server, and right now it is scanning my music collection (shared from a Linux-based NAS). The only oddity I have noticed so far is that it seems my .DFF files are not being scanned, whereas they worked fine on OSX. Some quick googling has not revealed anything useful in this regard... Should this just work? I can't see that I have missed installing any packages...

 

quick update: the .DFF file scanning issue under Linux turned out to be a file permissions issue (d'oh!). So now the Linux installation seems to be working fine except that I have noticed sometimes that roon seems to like selecting music of its own related to a track i have selected (after that track finishes playing). It's like the 'radio' button has been selected...!

 

The windows installation continued to give me grief: I had all sorts of issues with rebooting to black screen, installation of the C++ runtime failing, WIndows server 2012 R2 refusing to mount my samba shares, etc. After way too many lost hours, finally managed to get everything running only to find that only a fraction of my files were being imported.

 

After much frustration and head scratching, I finally managed to figure out the problem is that some of my file names were illegal under Windows because they had either a colon, a question mark, or a double quote character in them. Once I figured this out, I just renamed them and now all is well. What was particularly surprising to me (and this is why it took me so long to Figure out) is that if a folder contains even a single file with one of these illegal characters in its name, the entire folder and all sub-folders will not be scanned by Roon! Go figure.

 

So now I have run AO on the windows installation, and that sped up the responsiveness considerably.

 

The only gripe i have now is that the ios roon app keeps losing contact with the roon server and can take ages (i'm talking 5-10 minutes) to reestablish the connection. I see this is a known problem with the ios implementation.

[LewinskiH01]

Guidance needed!

 

I intend to build a new PC for running Roon core and HQPlayer, and feed a NAA. The new PC doesn´t need to be silent as it will be in an adjacent room. The NAA is silent.

I use HQPlayer to convert to 192 or 176/24, convolving into a 6-channels stereo setup. Right now my Xeon server is cruising at under 10% CPU load doing this, so I don´t expect this use of HQP plus the addtion of Roon will be very resource intensive.

 

I'm planning:

• Mobo: Gibabyte Z170X UD5
  
• RAM: 2x8GB Kingston Hyperx Fury. Want to allow for a path to double RAM in a couple years, if needed. 16GB should be enough, right?
  
• Processor: was considering i7 vs i5, and based on a review comparing i7 6700K to i5 6600K I'm shifting towards i5 as it seems I loose 10% in performance for a 30% discount. Wondering if the K type is best for my needs? Should I care about the overclocking properties? Maybe a lower TDP i5 6th generation?
  

 

While cooling is not going to be passive, I'd ike to keep this PC on most of the time so lower TDP seems a good idea.

From what I read it sounds like the noisyness of the Roon/HQPlayer server doesn't get into the NAA.

 

SSD for OS & software, HDDs for music.

Regular power supply. Not linear, not passive cooling.

Windows 10. The NAA is WS2012R2 with AO, but seems not ideal for Roon.

 

Does this make sense? Happy to be pointed to the weak spots in this plan.

 

Thank you!

[blue2]

Guidance needed!

I intend to build a new PC for running Roon core and HQPlayer, and feed a NAA. The new PC doesn´t need to be silent as it will be in an adjacent room. The NAA is silent.

I use HQPlayer to convert to 192 or 176/24, convolving into a 6-channels stereo setup. Right now my Xeon server is cruising at under 10% CPU load doing this, so I don´t expect this use of HQP plus the addtion of Roon will be very resource intensive.

I'm planning:

• Mobo: Gibabyte Z170X UD5
  
• RAM: 2x8GB Kingston Hyperx Fury. Want to allow for a path to double RAM in a couple years, if needed. 16GB should be enough, right?
  
• Processor: was considering i7 vs i5, and based on a review comparing i7 6700K to i5 6600K I'm shifting towards i5 as it seems I loose 10% in performance for a 30% discount. Wondering if the K type is best for my needs? Should I care about the overclocking properties? Maybe a lower TDP i5 6th generation?
  

 

While cooling is not going to be passive, I'd ike to keep this PC on most of the time so lower TDP seems a good idea.

From what I read it sounds like the noisyness of the Roon/HQPlayer server doesn't get into the NAA.

 

SSD for OS & software, HDDs for music.

Regular power supply. Not linear, not passive cooling.

Windows 10. The NAA is WS2012R2 with AO, but seems not ideal for Roon.

 

Does this make sense? Happy to be pointed to the weak spots in this plan.

 

Thank you!

 

Your plan looks like mine (and based on Miska and others previous systems) except that to do convolution you may need a 1080 GPU - I'd take advice on that.

 

For NAA you can use a low powered PC, if it's WS2012R2 then maybe overkill.

 

Other considerations:

• i7-7700K availability in late January/early February
  
• i5-7600 quad core 3.5/4.1 turbo 65 Watts for $199
  
• Z170 will take Kaby Lake CPU with BIOS update (check with manufacturer)
  
• Z270 motherboard also available soon. Has PCI-E lanes 24x PCI-E 3.0 (4 more than Z170)
  Summary from https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Z270-vs-Z170-What-is-the-Difference-877/ : overall Z270 changes are quite minor: extra PCI-E lanes are nice and Intel Optane has potential
  

 

Good luck!

[lmitche]

Actually my hunch is that Intel Optane will be a game changer for us. On its face it looks to be less complex, implying a far quieter technology than the TLC or MLC NAND memory used in SSDs. It is also fast enough to be substitute for ram. These are big changes and it is going to be fun to test and learn the benefits, if any, with Optane.