ECdesigns

[yogibear]

6 hours ago, Norton said:

I see ECD now have a PowerDAC “B” -

https://www.ecdesigns.nl/en/shop/powerdac-b

 

I guess this is basically an “R” without onboard volume and in a more conventional form factor?

Doesn’t mention the output voltage compared to R.    

[matthias]

11 hours ago, yogibear said:

Doesn’t mention the output voltage compared to R.    

According to the manual:

 

"The PowerDAC-B has a fixed 4 Vpp (1.4v rms) output."

 

powerdac-b (ecdesigns.nl)

 

Matt

[Perri]

So I threw in some Sanyo Oscon SEPC and an Elna Starget in my U192ETL and it improved the sound considerably in regards to the Power DAC R so it seems the internal reclocker and the Toslink connection is not the solve all solution as John suggests . Well at least in my opinion as there is clearly considerable improvements to be had by better quality filtering capacitors . IanCanadas FifoPi seems of interest after this even though I still think he is over charging for his product . Would be interesting if the reclocker within the Power DAC could be improved upon as it seems John builds to a price and this also makes me wonder if he uses shunt regulated power supplies which are from my knowledge the bees knees of PSU design for a DAC .

[murphythecat87]

2 hours ago, Perri said:

So I threw in some Sanyo Oscon SEPC and an Elna Starget in my U192ETL and it improved the sound considerably in regards to the Power DAC R so it seems the internal reclocker and the Toslink connection is not the solve all solution as John suggests . Well at least in my opinion as there is clearly considerable improvements to be had by better quality filtering capacitors . IanCanadas FifoPi seems of interest after this even though I still think he is over charging for his product . Would be interesting if the reclocker within the Power DAC could be improved upon as it seems John builds to a price and this also makes me wonder if he uses shunt regulated power supplies which are from my knowledge the bees knees of PSU design for a DAC .

 the fact that John Brown does NOT use Elna silmic 2 strike me as very odd

[Perri]

On 11/19/2022 at 3:46 AM, murphythecat87 said:

 the fact that John Brown does NOT use Elna silmic 2 strike me as very odd

I would not say it is odd as more of building to a price which should be expected for what John charges . It's odd that he implies that getting better sound quality with better quality parts is not possible when clearly it is and noticeable substantial improvements are to be had . And this unit is still source dependant in my opinion as in regards to higher a quality source inputs more information it's just getting to that at a decent price as John's Power DAC R .

[Waldo]

Hi all I offer my ecdesigns fractal dac + transport  for sale in order to finance the try of a dfferent dac. 

its the ecdisigns da96 fractal dac + utl192 transport with electrotos protocol

No more introduction required for this great dac here ;-)

My asking price is 600 euros and an offer from 500 can be made.

Dac is good as new. Great opportunity for a very special dac :-)

 

Shipping worldwide.

[matthias]

On 11/16/2022 at 11:51 PM, Norton said:

I see ECD now have a PowerDAC “B” -

https://www.ecdesigns.nl/en/shop/powerdac-b

 

IMO, from the visual appearance it is clearly a move into the right direction.

Hopefully they will offer the PowerDAC-S also in a more conventional form factor 😀

 

Matt

[matthias]

BTW, hopkins published some nice YTs with the PowerDAC-S:

 

Stephane L. - YouTube

 

Matt

[Marijn]

On 11/18/2022 at 2:59 PM, Perri said:

So I threw in some Sanyo Oscon SEPC and an Elna Starget in my U192ETL and it improved the sound considerably in regards to the Power DAC R so it seems the internal reclocker and the Toslink connection is not the solve all solution as John suggests . Well at least in my opinion as there is clearly considerable improvements to be had by better quality filtering capacitors . IanCanadas FifoPi seems of interest after this even though I still think he is over charging for his product . Would be interesting if the reclocker within the Power DAC could be improved upon as it seems John builds to a price and this also makes me wonder if he uses shunt regulated power supplies which are from my knowledge the bees knees of PSU design for a DAC .

As an experiment I switched all capacitors in the U192ETL and some in the PowerDac-S (on the dapi board, the smaller ones in the psu, etc...) with Audio Note Kaizen capacitors.  I can confirm there is indeed a difference/improvement. By how much I can't say as the human memory isn't great at storing and recalling how things sound/ sounded before.

All I can say is it still sounds great, just like it did before!

[Marijn]

For anyone interested, I have 8x Tang Band W8-2145 drivers for sale and some ECDesigns baffles.

Just used for a test (which proved it is a great design, btw)

 

Will ship the drivers worldwide

 

 

[murphythecat87]

schiit Yggy or EC design dac-r

 

where are the reviews for the power dac R?

 

 

[Gavin1977]

3 hours ago, murphythecat87 said:

schiit Yggy or EC design dac-r

 

where are the reviews for the power dac R?

 

 

Or Aqua La Voce S3.  I’ve heard them all (EC design was the earlier 192) and Aqua is my keeper.

[Huubster]

3 hours ago, murphythecat87 said:

schiit Yggy or EC design dac-r

 

where are the reviews for the power dac R?

 

 

PowerDAC R without a single doubt. I had the Yggy (Analog 2) for around 2 years when I tried John's Fractal DAC. No comparison really.

 

I used to think the Yggy was top notch, but it is a harsch, metalic and non-organic sounding DAC, which is easily confused with a dynamic and open sounding DAC (as it is often descibed) if you don't know any better.

 

And the PD is way better then the Fractal DAC..

[murphythecat87]

8 hours ago, Gavin1977 said:

Or Aqua La Voce S3.  I’ve heard them all (EC design was the earlier 192) and Aqua is my keeper.

why do you use the Chord Qutest?

you prefer the Chord Qutest over all the others?

[uber2]

Qutest was quite inferior to PD.

[realDHT]

8 hours ago, Huubster said:

And the PD is way better then the Fractal DAC..

I agree with this. I still keep my U192/DA96 combo, and a while ago I put it back in my system temporarily and the difference to the PD-R I normally use was really big.

[Gavin1977]

51 minutes ago, murphythecat87 said:

why do you use the Chord Qutest?

you prefer the Chord Qutest over all the others?

Yeah, I tried U192/DA96, not the new PowerDAC.  Qutest was my reference for a long time, and with the U192/DA96  I found the lack of output buffer to be an issue, but it had lots of very positive traits and was exceptionally detailed.

 

I responded to the comment because Yggy was mentioned.  A very fine DAC, but I found the Aqua La Voce to be superior (better PRaT and more open sound) compared to the Yggy LiM (I also had the older Analogue 2).  So I'm trying to encourage you not to bother with the earlier U192/DA96, or the Qutest, and go straight to either the PowerDAC or Aqua DAC.  I have not heard the PowerDAC, so cannot comment on it.

 

That said U192/DA96, or the Qutest with a tube based system might work very well to remove the digital edge, otherwise go the other way.

 

p.s. I have also had Mola Mola, Holo Audio and others in my system.

[Gavin1977]

I would be interest to hear a PowerDAC though, anyone got one in the UK?

[mhhd]

29 minutes ago, realDHT said:

I agree with this. I still keep my U192/DA96 combo, and a while ago I put it back in my system temporarily and the difference to the PD-R I normally use was really big.

Would anyone of you be so kind to elaborate a little more on the difference of the PD-R to the U192/DA96 combo? I am still a happy owner and I am curious what I am currently missing :-) How do you experience the difference in detail and extend?

Thank you very much in advance!

[mhhd]

On 10/11/2022 at 9:59 AM, Huubster said:

Hi @yogibearand @Perri

 

Here a picture of my mods. I finished the mod better then in the picture, but this is the only picture I could find.. :)

 

Within the DAC I replaced all 4 capacitors.  John uses cheap caps, and also not consistent across DAC's. Different DAC's can have different caps. 

 

The big ones are Elna Silmic II's (25v 1.000uF, replacing the old 16v 10.000uF).  The small ones are the Blackgate n-types (6,3v 220uF, replacing 330 and 1.000uF)

 

All values used are smaller then the ones I replaced. I myself do no not have in depth understanding why, but my engineering friend can perfectly explain why these values are adequate for the job. All I can say is that the DAC still works perfectly and sounds much, much better then in original state.

 

 

Hi @Huubster, @yogibear and @Perri,

I realized that you used capacitors known as the best for analog circuits, not the ones like os-cons, polymer, etc. usually named as the ones for digital circuits. Does the fractal design behave like an analog circuit in this respect? Or did you choose just what was on hand. I am a amateur regarding these details, so you help would reduce my trials :-)

My DA96 has Nichicon KA fitted and I would like to improve...

Thanks a lot!

[Huubster]

13 minutes ago, mhhd said:

Hi @Huubster, @yogibear and @Perri,

I realized that you used capacitors known as the best for analog circuits, not the ones like os-cons, polymer, etc. usually named as the ones for digital circuits. Does the fractal design behave like an analog circuit in this respect? Or did you choose just what was on hand. I am a amateur regarding these details, so you help would reduce my trials :-)

My DA96 has Nichicon KA fitted and I would like to improve...

Thanks a lot!

 Hi mhhd, the red Blackgates are in the power supply circuit of the DAC, which is the analog part so to say.

 

But to be honest, these red devils turned out not to be what I was looking for. After many weeks these things keep changing somehow and it got too sterile for my taste. Currently I have a combination of Silmic II and Audio Note Kaisai in there, which I seem to like much more . 

 

But at the moment I also upgraded the Power Supply of the PD-R, I use a Farad Super3 on the PD, which is huge step from the original LPS (which I modded quite a bit too with better parts including a discrete voltage regulator). 

 

So there is still a lot to win on the already great performance of the PD ' out of the box' , a nice bonus to be able to grow further incrementally 🙂

[murphythecat87]

1 hour ago, Gavin1977 said:

Yeah, I tried U192/DA96, not the new PowerDAC.  Qutest was my reference for a long time, and with the U192/DA96  I found the lack of output buffer to be an issue, but it had lots of very positive traits and was exceptionally detailed.

 

I responded to the comment because Yggy was mentioned.  A very fine DAC, but I found the Aqua La Voce to be superior (better PRaT and more open sound) compared to the Yggy LiM (I also had the older Analogue 2).  So I'm trying to encourage you not to bother with the earlier U192/DA96, or the Qutest, and go straight to either the PowerDAC or Aqua DAC.  I have not heard the PowerDAC, so cannot comment on it.

 

That said U192/DA96, or the Qutest with a tube based system might work very well to remove the digital edge, otherwise go the other way.

 

p.s. I have also had Mola Mola, Holo Audio and others in my system.

men

you have a lot of experience!

if you were to rank, by order of preference your dac...

 

many thx!

 

edit: im still using a UPL192 with the Mosaic T dac

[murphythecat87]

1 hour ago, realDHT said:

I agree with this. I still keep my U192/DA96 combo, and a while ago I put it back in my system temporarily and the difference to the PD-R I normally use was really big.

damn

I still love my Mosaic T, but now this tempts me a bit too much.

I think ill order a power dac

[Huubster]

1 hour ago, mhhd said:

Would anyone of you be so kind to elaborate a little more on the difference of the PD-R to the U192/DA96 combo? I am still a happy owner and I am curious what I am currently missing :-) How do you experience the difference in detail and extend?

Thank you very much in advance!

 

By now it's a long time ago, but the thing I remember is that its sound footprint is quite equal to the Fractal DAC. But it has more dynamics, it has more silent background, and that's why you hear more. But still with the same analog feel to it as you are already used to. It's much more realistic and enjoyable.

 

Doing the mods makes it even better, and not just a little bit. With the mods, and especcially with the separate LPS it's insanely good and a lot better then out of the box. So clean, so precise, far more depth in the sound stage, and improving the natural timbre of instruments. Sounds comes from the complete silent background. I was not realising how much 'noise' there still was, masking a lot of information I can now hear very clearly. 

[Gavin1977]

2 hours ago, murphythecat87 said:

men

you have a lot of experience!

if you were to rank, by order of preference your dac...

 

many thx!

 

edit: im still using a UPL192 with the Mosaic T dac

Everyone is looking for some something different, but for me it’s the Aqua La Voce S3 which is the best.  I do prefer the La Scala, but more expensive.  Aqua Formula not so much.

 

I’ll leave you to decided on the rest.