UpTone Audio REGEN Power Supply Add-On

[Distinctive]

I would say the word “clone” is quite a misnomer.

Maybe so.

[JohnSwenson]

No doubt about that but if it doesn’t double up the price, I would still prefer it. Curious to know if Alex or John has ventured that option or not ? Or it is for some other design reasons ?

 

Of course we have THOUGHT about it, but it never comes up as a viable option.

 

This particular version was designed designed to be used with the 7.5V MeanWell that goes out with the REGEN, since a lot of people already have those. It can also be used with a wide variety of other supplies, when we started looking at it there was just no way we could come up with ONE design that would meet the requirements of everybody, so we made the choice to let the user choose what to use as the feed supply. Doing multiple versions for different people will just drive the price way higher.

 

We are working on our own feed supply which will be different than anything anybody has done before, but it is not going to be dirt cheap either. Again it is a separate box to give people a choice, without having to make 10 different versions of the whole supply which would dramatically increase costs.

 

So yes we have thought a lot about it, and will continue to do so, but so far we have not come up with a scenario where it makes business sense. (getting the best products out to the largest number of people at the lowest possible price)

 

John S.

[Dev]

Of course we have THOUGHT about it, but it never comes up as a viable option.

 

This particular version was designed designed to be used with the 7.5V MeanWell that goes out with the REGEN, since a lot of people already have those. It can also be used with a wide variety of other supplies, when we started looking at it there was just no way we could come up with ONE design that would meet the requirements of everybody, so we made the choice to let the user choose what to use as the feed supply. Doing multiple versions for different people will just drive the price way higher.

 

With the release on microrendu (assuming it would be a great success as I read), the need for Regen like devices will slowly diminish. I bet there will be lot of Regen/RUR USB fixers on the used market. One of the reason why I ordered the microRendu is because I also wanted to simplify my setup as well without sacrificing the SQ. For every MPS I add to my system, I am actually increasing the number of devices in the chain instead of replacing the original. Its the same mess/clutter that I am trying to avoid.

 

We are working on our own feed supply which will be different than anything anybody has done before, but it is not going to be dirt cheap either.

 

I am a bit confused by your comment on this. Earlier you stated that the feed supply for MPS is irrelevant and it will perform the same if its fed from a $50 supply or a $1000 supply. So based on this why wouldn’t the feed supply be cheap ? I am sure there are reasons behind this but wanted to understand the perspective better.

[Superdad]

I am a bit confused by your comment on this. Earlier you stated that the feed supply for MPS is irrelevant and it will perform the same if its fed from a $50 supply or a $1000 supply. So based on this why wouldn’t the feed supply be cheap ? I am sure there are reasons behind this but wanted to understand the perspective better.

 

Well the energizing supply the mystery LPS will come with is cheap. It's a level VI, fully certified around the world, tabletop SMPS with detachable AC power cord--the same as what comes with the REGEN (though for those who already got that supply with their REGEN or have something suitable already, we can omit it from the kit and save the buyer $15 and be kinder to the planet).

 

There is never going to be any energizing supply for our device that will affect its DC output. Period.

As I have explained, the ONLY reason to use any other energizing supply is if you don't want an SMPS plugged into the wall. But virtually all conventional linear supplies also put harmonics back into the house mains since they don't draw current through the whole waveform. Only a power-factor-corrected supply will be "line quiet." The choke-filtered JS-2 is the only power-factor-corrected LPS that I know of (John calculated as having a PF of about 0.97).

 

Yet producing a small choke-filtered LPS just to be an energizing supply for our isolated device seems silly, and indeed would not be cheap (anytime you have to have a transformer, power switch, fuse, voltage selector, and inlet jack in a chassis, there is labor and expense)--and we don't have Chinese factory scale.

 

But John had [another] radical idea for a highly AC line quiet PFC supply with rather few parts, and that is the follow-on piece he mentioned. While its DC output will be modestly quiet, that is not the goal--since our forthcoming DC-DC LPS doesn't care about that. Rather it is about kicking less back into the wall mains than any other LPS or SMPS (again, our big JS-2 being the exception).

Cost for that piece will be all about the transformer, the case, and if I can find the right combination of AC inlet/switch/fuse/voltage selector parts that are all PCB mount as any hand wiring adds labor and cost.

 

Hope that puts things into a little perspective. And please don't ask about the when for that follow-on piece. We have a lot on out plate now and I just don't know. Frankly, since I use 1:1 isolation transformers for my front-end gear, and plug any SMPS directly into the wall before those transformers, my AC system is not terribly sensitive to SMPS high frequency noise and spikes.

[warpeon]

Sorry, I suppose until I put up a web page for it then people just joining this thread will be confused as information came out piecemeal over time. Tried to find a concise post upthread, but the closest I came was this one:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f27-uptone-audio-sponsored/uptone-audio-regen-power-supply-add-24963/index16.html#post468055

Since then we have expanded the voltage selection to a 3-postion switch to include 3.3V in addition to the original 5V, and 7V choices.

 

So in essence it is a 1A DC-DC LPS. It gets externally powered by any PS in the range of 12V/1.5A, 9V/2A, or 7.5V/2.5A--and the quality of that PS will make ZERO difference to the quality of the 100% isolated DC output. Give it the nastiest input voltage you can possibly come up with (as long as it is in the voltage/current range just outlined), and you will get the same ultra-clean and fast power out of it.

 

It is true that--for those whose AC mains and rest of system are allergic to any SMPS--the new piece as shipped does not address that. But plenty of people have little El Cheapo LPS units that would feed our box nicely, though traditional (trans/diodes/caps/reg) linear power supplies are all also guilty of putting harmonics back into the AC line--just at lower frequencies than an SMPS--and good level V and VI SMPS units (like the Mean Well we ship with the REGEN) spread their noise across a wide very high frequency spectrum).

 

Hope that helps. When we fully reveal then everyone will understand what makes this such an exciting supply.

 

 

Alex, at 350-400 for the mystery, if I needed 2 outputs, wouldn't it make more sense if I just get a js-2? The difference becomes <200. Or the mystery is better than js-2

[Dev]

Alex, at 350-400 for the mystery, if I needed 2 outputs, wouldn't it make more sense if I just get a js-2? The difference becomes <200. Or the mystery is better than js-2

 

Good question. I am also interested to know if the MPS is still better (maybe because of the newer tech ?) than the JS-2 or not, irrespective of the price ?

[JohnSwenson]

Good question. I am also interested to know if the MPS is still better (maybe because of the newer tech ?) than the JS-2 or not, irrespective of the price ?

 

Both supplies were designed with the same output criteria so they should behave very much the same. The MPS will have slightly lower noise, but for most applications this is not very important.

 

The big difference is that the output of an MPS is completely isolated, two of them are fully galvanically isolated from each other, the two outputs of a JS2 share a common ground. That common ground is isolated from chassis ground (ground pin on the AC plug) but common between the two outputs.

 

Thus if you feed a REGEN or microRendu AND a DAC which includes galvanic isolation, with a JS-2 you are bypassing the isolation in the DAC. With two MPSs you preserve that isolation.

 

The isolation of the MPS is still there even if they are both fed from the same feed supply.

 

John S.

[sandyk]

Both supplies were designed with the same output criteria so they should behave very much the same. The MPS will have slightly lower noise, but for most applications this is not very important.

 

The big difference is that the output of an MPS is completely isolated, two of them are fully galvanically isolated from each other, the two outputs of a JS2 share a common ground. That common ground is isolated from chassis ground (ground pin on the AC plug) but common between the two outputs.

 

Thus if you feed a REGEN or microRendu AND a DAC which includes galvanic isolation, with a JS-2 you are bypassing the isolation in the DAC. With two MPSs you preserve that isolation.

 

The isolation of the MPS is still there even if they are both fed from the same feed supply.

 

John S.

 

John

That sounds very much like having completely separate low noise feeds derived from separate batteries.

You can't get much more isolated than that.

Kind Regards

Alex

[Dev]

Both supplies were designed with the same output criteria so they should behave very much the same. The MPS will have slightly lower noise, but for most applications this is not very important.

 

The big difference is that the output of an MPS is completely isolated, two of them are fully galvanically isolated from each other, the two outputs of a JS2 share a common ground. That common ground is isolated from chassis ground (ground pin on the AC plug) but common between the two outputs.

 

Thus if you feed a REGEN or microRendu AND a DAC which includes galvanic isolation, with a JS-2 you are bypassing the isolation in the DAC. With two MPSs you preserve that isolation.

 

The isolation of the MPS is still there even if they are both fed from the same feed supply.

 

John S.

 

Thanks John. Really appreciate it. Now it becomes much easier to choose between the two based on actual facts. I hope others in the same boat will benefit as well :-)

[Superdad]

John

That sounds very much like having completely separate low noise feeds derived from separate batteries.

You can't get much more isolated than that.

Kind Regards

Alex

 

Sorry Mr. K, no batteries!

[sandyk]

Sorry Mr. K, no batteries!

 

I agree. Using batteries is a P.I.T.A. !

What John is doing, is giving perfect isolation between supplies, as well as from A.C. Mains Earth, just like using separate batteries would do, WITHOUT the annoying voltage drop during discharging, fiddly recharging and limited lifetime of batteries, as well as most likely a superior noise figure.

 

Regards

Alex

[Dev]

Now that folks are getting their hands on mR, any idea when possibly the MPS is expected to ship Alex ?

[Superdad]

Now that folks are getting their hands on mR, any idea when possibly the MPS is expected to ship Alex ?

 

Don't know about shipping, but we intend to end the "mystery" of the tech and post pictures by the end of this week. Am trying to get the rest of my biz and e-mail under control first as I know there will be lots of chatter and questions.

 

Thanks,

AJC

[baddog]

Well I guess I will just have to suffer silently with my JS-2....

 

[jtwrace]

When will pre-ordering be opened up?

[Superdad]

When will pre-ordering be opened up?

 

Only when the final-final production boards are on order with a scheduled ship date from our board house. Not a moment before. I have an ethical bias against taking peoples' money without being 100% sure of the delivery date. Crowd-funding/fleecing is not my thing.

[jtwrace]

Only when the final-final production boards are on order with a scheduled ship date from our board house.

 

Great, when is that? No, this is not a deposition; it just feels that way. ;-)

[YashN]

I have an ethical bias against taking peoples' money without being 100% sure of the delivery date. Crowd-funding/fleecing is not my thing.

 

A 'Light'-thingie company comes to mind...

[YashN]

Great, when is that? No, this is not a deposition; it just feels that way. ;-)

 

What's up?

 

Seeing your sig the very juicy Vinnie Rossi LIO as well as rather efficient open-Baffle Spatial speakers.

 

Have you tried Single-Ended Triode amps with those?

[jtwrace]

 

Have you tried Single-Ended Triode amps with those?

 

No and that's not happening.

[YashN]

No and that's not happening.

 

Hehehe...

[pl_svn]

No and that's not happening.

 

... because 94db is the bare minimum for a SET (and might even not be enough: Klipsch Heresy, rated at 97, are a difficult load for a 3w SET), and because these speakers, being rated at 4 Ohm, are clearly made with SS in mind

[zegel]

Alex, currently I use the ifi 9v 1,5a power supply to power my microrendu. You specify 9v 2a to run the mistery power supply. Does that mean this current standard power supply for the microrendu can not be used ?

[YashN]

... because 94db is the bare minimum for a SET (and might even not be enough: Klipsch Heresy, rated at 97, are a difficult load for a 3w SET), and because these speakers, being rated at 4 Ohm, are clearly made with SS in mind

 

True true, I'm still researching and designing new speakers for my SET Tube Amp myself.

[Superdad]

Alex, currently I use the ifi 9v 1,5a power supply to power my microrendu. You specify 9v 2a to run the mistery power supply. Does that mean this current standard power supply for the microrendu can not be used ?

 

That's correct--9V/1.5A will not be enough. Save your iFi iPower for something else. It will not benefit our new supply in any way, and the iFi being a SMPS is not going to be more wall-benign than the SMPS that will come with our unit.

 

(Omitting the SMPS from the package will be an option on the web ordering page--saving probably $15--because so many REGEN users and others already have an appropriate supply--one that hits 12V/1.5A, 9V/2A, or the Mean Well 7.5V/2.93A that came with the REGEN.)

 

Hope that helps.