Schiit Yggdrasil - Best DAC available!?

[scan80269]

From the perspective of the Aries, going with AES may not do away with extra circuitry. I think it was reported that the Aries internally just converts USB to AES. The Aries is basically a Linux computer so this may be true.

 

I wonder if you may have it backwards with Aries. Aries receives from Ethernet or WiFi and outputs to USB/AES/coax/Toslink to drive the DAC. Yes, Aries is essentially a special-purpose Linux computer, but I suspect USB is not native to the ARM-based processor inside, so an extra chip (USB host controller) is needed just to do the USB out. I tend to think that S/PDIF has more of a chance of being native to the ARM chip than USB, with the AES/coax/Toslink outputs needing only proper line drivers and connectors, but I'm largely speculating here.

[scan80269]

This is off topic, but I recently discovered that DACs like Yggy do better when the upstream renderer/streamer driving it is tweaked. I use an Aries, and recently got better sound by "helping" it as follows:

 

* Used WiFi 5GHz 11ac instead of Ethernet input (unplugged CAT6 cable)

* Replaced Auralic LPS with Uptone Audio JS-2 LPS

* Offloaded FLAC decoding from Aries to MinimServer/MinimStreamer running on a i5 NUC-based music server

 

The Yggy has enough resolution to benefit from improvements in the source. The Aries benefits from the principle of minimized electrical workload. The result is better sound. My Vega DAC also sounds better driven the same way.

[ElviaCaprice]

Sometimes I wonder if the pursuit of finding the perfect stream sent to the DAC with all these extra devices (basically additional computers with less versatility) is just passing the buck, as they say. Meaning, heading off the noise issues from one computer and only one would not only be easier on the checkbook but more simple and just as good if not better SQ?

Sorry, didn't mean to transgress, continue on.

[kennyb123]

This is off topic, but I recently discovered that DACs like Yggy do better when the upstream renderer/streamer driving it is tweaked. I use an Aries, and recently got better sound by "helping" it as follows:

 

* Used WiFi 5GHz 11ac instead of Ethernet input (unplugged CAT6 cable)

* Replaced Auralic LPS with Uptone Audio JS-2 LPS

* Offloaded FLAC decoding from Aries to MinimServer/MinimStreamer running on a i5 NUC-based music server

 

 

What improvements did you hear?

 

A friend recently switched from the Aries to an Aurender N100H. The N100H eliminated glare that he heard from the Aries. I believe I hear this same glare and am wondering if a better linear supply would help.

 

It's been very difficult to find someone who can say exactly how a better supply linear benefits the Aries.

[scan80269]

What improvements did you hear?

 

A friend recently switched from the Aries to an Aurender N100H. The N100H eliminated glare that he heard from the Aries. I believe I hear this same glare and am wondering if a better linear supply would help.

 

It's been very difficult to find someone who can say exactly how a better supply linear benefits the Aries.

 

I heard less digital grain. Some tracks sounded a bit less bright as well and the tonal balance improved.

 

Offloading FLAC decoding from Aries made the biggest difference. JS-2 LPS replacing Auralic LPS yielded a much smaller grain reduction, the sound was slightly smoother with more micro details. I'd say the Auralic LPS is 90-95% of what the JS-2 does for Aries. One difference between these two LPS is that JS-2 outputs 12V whereas the Auralic outputs 16V. I added ferrite clamps to the AC and DC cables for the Auralic LPS.

 

Another thing I did not mention: I switched Aries output from USB to AES or Toslink. The Yggy seems to work better with AES than Toslink, which has trouble locking at 24/192. My Vega behaves better driven by Toslink at up to 24/192 than by USB. I use a Lifatec Silflex Toslink cable with great results.

[kennyb123]

I wonder if you may have it backwards with Aries. Aries receives from Ethernet or WiFi and outputs to USB/AES/coax/Toslink to drive the DAC.

 

This is probably what had me thinking this way. Not a definitive statement though.

[kennyb123]

I heard less digital grain. Some tracks sounded a bit less bright as well and the tonal balance improved.

 

Thanks sharing for that.

 

Offloading FLAC decoding from Aries made the biggest difference. JS-2 LPS replacing Auralic LPS yielded a much smaller grain reduction, the sound was slightly smoother with more micro details.

 

Most of my music is already in uncompressed format (AIFF). I probably have only 6 albums worth of FLAC, all of it purchased from the Pono Store. I will have to experiment with converting these to AIFF off line.

 

 

 

I use a Lifatec Silflex Toslink cable with great results.

 

Glass is definitely the way to go with Toslink cables. I was using Toslink many years ago and heard a huge improvement switching to a Wireworld glass Toslink cable.

[bstnyc]

Hi guys, thank you very much for your inputs, they are very helpful! I currently have the Aries/Vega combo for my speaker system and will get the Yggy as a second DAC. Eventually, one of them will be move to my headphone rig. Thanks again for your assistance!

[ChrisG]

they dither down to 20, 18 or 16 for the Yggy, Gumby and Bimby respectively. The data is not truncated.

 

not quite. Both Yggy & Gumby have enough bits to play 24 bit recordings since these never have 24 bits of resolution, so there is no conversion. Bimby does convert 24 bit to 16 bit using dither.

[goldsdad]

Has anybody obtained an Yggy from Electromod, the UK distributor for Schiit?

 

SCHIIT AUDIO YGGDRASIL | Schiit Audio | Electromod

 

I've been checking their website every day for weeks, since the company told me they expected to have stock in a few days, but it always states out of stock.

[realmassy]

I bought mine from Electromod a few weeks ago: top notch service. Send Mark an email and ask him when the Yggy is back

[scan80269]

I wonder if you may have it backwards with Aries. Aries receives from Ethernet or WiFi and outputs to USB/AES/coax/Toslink to drive the DAC. Yes, Aries is essentially a special-purpose Linux computer, but I suspect USB is not native to the ARM-based processor inside, so an extra chip (USB host controller) is needed just to do the USB out. I tend to think that S/PDIF has more of a chance of being native to the ARM chip than USB, with the AES/coax/Toslink outputs needing only proper line drivers and connectors, but I'm largely speculating here.

 

Sorry for another thread hijack, but I wanted to share my learnings to help keep Yggy from getting a bad rep due to it not getting the best possible input quality. Again, Yggy is revealing enough to expose weaknesses in the incoming stream, so what and how you feed the Yggy really matters, IMHO.

 

OK, after researching the Aries hardware architecture a bit, I think I can explain why Aries delivers better sound to Yggy (or another DAC) when the music is streaming in externally from NAS as opposed to locally from an attached USB storage device.

 

The Aries "DAC" and "USB" ports, intended for connections to DAC and external USB storage device respectively, are both internally connected to a USB hub chip (by Microchip/SMSC) then to an XMOS chip as interface to the ARM-based processor. When playing content from attached USB storage, Aries has to juggle both USB traffic incoming from storage (in USB bulk transfer protocol) and the USB traffic going out to the DAC at the other port (in USB isochronous transfer protocol with asynchronous feedback - for USB Audio 2.0 mode). The isochronous USB stream from Aries to DAC has higher priority on the USB interface than the bulk USB stream from storage to Aries, but the net is that the processor, memory, XMOS chip and even the USB hub chip all have more work to do when the attached USB storage device is in active use via Lightning Server.

 

When I connect a DAC to one of the digital outputs of Aries instead of USB, and unplug the USB storage device and stream wirelessly from NAS instead, the Aries USB HW (at least the USB hub chip) goes largely quiescent. Using wireless also helps another Ethernet interface chip in Aries go quiescent. These lead to reduced chip activities during operation, thus less electrical noise and cleaner digital outputs going to the DAC. Offloading FLAC decoding serves to reduce Aries processor activity to further the "minimum workload for better sound" concept.

 

With all these considerations, my Aries/Yggy combo has been holding its own very nicely of late.

[goldsdad]

I bought mine from Electromod a few weeks ago: top notch service. Send Mark an email and ask him when the Yggy is back

 

Cool! Thanks for the positive reply. I will email again.

[No-Moving_Parts]

+1

 

Just donated my Totaldac D1 with reclocker to

Value Villiage.

 

pb-

 

Which Value Village?

[Jimmypowder]

Which Value Village?

 

He wanna buy buy buy !

[scan80269]

My Yggy and Vega participated in a 3-way DAC shootout yesterday along with a NAD M51. I used RCA for Yggy, Toslink for Vega and AES for M51. Source was Aries driving all 3 DACs with its 3 digital outputs (no USB anywhere!) All DAC outputs were RCA into a Burson Soloist for DAC selection and volume control. The Behringer DCX2496 was used only in the first part of the audition as crossover & time alignment for a pair of ProAC D1 and two active subs. For power amps we listened to both Sophia Electric Royal Princess and Western Electric 300B tubes in succession.

 

Since Yggy outputs are not adjustable, the Vega & M51 outputs were adjusted to match Yggy's. The Yggy was kept powered up with a UPS during transportation, and played for about an hour alongside the other DACs before auditioning started.

 

After listening to various music genres in redbook FLAC only, the gang noted that M51 was the brightest, Vega the most dynamic and Yggy the smoothest (best for vocal tracks with relatively lower dynamic range). There was no all-around winner! This is an affirmation that different DACs excel with different genres, and DAC synergy with rest of system is very important. My pals felt that the Yggy/Acurus/LS50 setup in the previous audition was perhaps too much on the mellow side. The Vega/LS50 pairing sounded more engaging. This time the Yggy faired better with 300B/ProAc, with and without the active subs.

 

Half way through this audition, the Behringer and the subs were dropped, the Burson pre went straight to the 300B amp for the ProAc without bi-amping. There was immediately improved clarity and resolution. I now understand why folks pan the DCX2496. There are plenty of mod options for the Behringer but I doubt if they are worthwhile. I may start looking into digital crossover and room correction alternatives.

 

My Yggy is a keeper and back in my setup for more continuous workout (it did get cold after the audition). It is still some ways from 700 hours of break-in, and I want to hear what that can really do, though I suspect it won't be too different from where it is now. I like the ability to switch between Yggy and Vega with the push of a button, depending on what I'm listening to.

 

Got an opportunity to repeat the Yggy/Vega shootout at the same venue as the first audition. This time an Audio Design XLR switch box was used to allow both Yggy and Vega to use their XLR outputs and to do instant switching back & forth between the two DACs. Yggy was driven with coax and Vega with Toslink from Aries. A Jensen PC-2XR transformer did XLR-to-RCA conversion to drive the Acurus DIA100 amp for LS50 speakers. The Yggy has been on continuous break-in for over a month, and was transported to the venue powered by a UPS.

 

Overall impression was largely the same as before: Yggy shines with vocals; Vega sounds more dynamic with more detail retrieval and a better defined sound stage. Yggy is the smoother of the two; the term "rounded" was used many times. Vega had crisper attacks and longer reverb tails. We listened mostly with Vega's Mode 1 (linear phase) filter but switched to Mode 4 (minimum phase) to compare. With Mode 4 the Vega and Yggy sound got closer. Tonal characters of voices and instruments are quite different between the two DACs, and it was hard to decide which DAC is preferred. As before, the preferences can become genre specific. I can picture tube amp enthusiasts loving the Yggy sound. One listener commented that the Yggy sound reminds him of a Sony ES CD player of late 80's vintage. We threw a bunch of "problematic" CDs at the Yggy and it did not disappoint with a single track. Yggy makes a lot of Redbook content listenable no matter how poorly recorded or mastered. Schiit's mega burrito filter in Yggy has a high degree of universal compatibility.

 

On the other hand, while the Vega didn't sound as good as Yggy for some of the worst content (some harshness came through), for the best sounding recordings it was able to outshine the Yggy. With these recordings the Yggy sounded more polite whereas Vega sounded more lively and engaging. With Vega playing the comment "I heard more" was made several times. At least the comments were very consistent with those made from previous auditions.

 

So, both Yggy and Vega have their strengths and weaknesses (different ones). Either one is more than adequate for my use. Such an A/B comparison tends to be "brutal" but it was fun to do.

[tboooe]

^^ Thank you scan80269. I listen mainly to vocals and acoustic music (jazz, folk, etc), preferring a small venue, intimate setting. I want vocals to sound organic with natural timbres. I wonder if the "rounded" sound of the Yggy is a good thing for a natural presentation of vocals? I am not necessarily a tube guy but definitely prefer some of the attributes of tube sound like slight midrange bloom/weight, liquidity, emotion, etc. Would you say the Yggy has this character? I definitely do not want "rounded" if it means the music sounds too smooth and mellow without proper attack and edge.

[Jimmypowder]

^^ Thank you scan80269. I listen mainly to vocals and acoustic music (jazz, folk, etc), preferring a small venue, intimate setting. I want vocals to sound organic with natural timbres. I wonder if the "rounded" sound of the Yggy is a good thing for a natural presentation of vocals? I am not necessarily a tube guy but definitely prefer some of the attributes of tube sound like slight midrange bloom/weight, liquidity, emotion, etc. Would you say the Yggy has this character? I definitely do not want "rounded" if it means the music sounds too smooth and mellow without proper attack and edge.

 

I find nothing rounded with the Yggy .

[ted_b]

The Vega is a top notch SABRE chip-based DAC, and to that end, will often sound less-rounded (i.e more etched) than another DAC in its presence (except those poorly implemented SABRE dac cousins). This should take nothing away from Yggy. Companies like exaSound, Fore and Auralic have done miracles with the potential lethal edges of the SABRE chip, and harnessed all that energy into musicality. There is a "liveliness" to the sound that, when done right, captures the venue and loads the room even before the first note is struck. Compare that to a multibit in a/b and you will likely always get a "rounded" comment or two about the multibit, but standing on its own I doubt it is rounded at all. Caveat: I have yet to personally hear a Yggy.

[Black]

It is a fine looking and with some nice parts--plus those guys are the most ethical in the biz, IMO. If I ever decided to switch buying my DACS from Benchmark, I may look for Yggdrasil used one day. My Mani and Loki I do love, and for the price you can't go wrong.

[Jimmypowder]

It is a fine looking and with some nice parts--plus those guys are the most ethical in the biz, IMO. If I ever decided to switch buying my DACS from Benchmark, I may look for Yggdrasil used one day. My Mani and Loki I do love, and for the price you can't go wrong.

 

I had the Benchmark dac2 HGC and sold it to buy another Yggy . The Yggy is tons better in every audio facet .

[scan80269]

The Vega is a top notch SABRE chip-based DAC, and to that end, will often sound less-rounded (i.e more etched) than another DAC in its presence (except those poorly implemented SABRE dac cousins). This should take nothing away from Yggy. Companies like exaSound, Fore and Auralic have done miracles with the potential lethal edges of the SABRE chip, and harnessed all that energy into musicality. There is a "liveliness" to the sound that, when done right, captures the venue and loads the room even before the first note is struck. Compare that to a multibit in a/b and you will likely always get a "rounded" comment or two about the multibit, but standing on its own I doubt it is rounded at all. Caveat: I have yet to personally hear a Yggy.

 

Yes, the rounded comments on Yggy were only relative to the Vega. When I listen to the Yggy by itself, it doesn't sound rounded to me, and on some tracks the Yggy sounds a bit more natural particularly in the treble than the Vega.

 

At this point, my preference is Vega (Exact clock, Mode 1 filter) for classical orchestral/symphonic music, and Yggy for vocals & jazz. I may be crazy, but I'll probably keep my Aries driving both DACs concurrently, and just turn the knob on my XLR switch box for DAC selection on an album-by-album or even track-by-track basis.

[scan80269]

^^ Thank you scan80269. I listen mainly to vocals and acoustic music (jazz, folk, etc), preferring a small venue, intimate setting. I want vocals to sound organic with natural timbres. I wonder if the "rounded" sound of the Yggy is a good thing for a natural presentation of vocals? I am not necessarily a tube guy but definitely prefer some of the attributes of tube sound like slight midrange bloom/weight, liquidity, emotion, etc. Would you say the Yggy has this character? I definitely do not want "rounded" if it means the music sounds too smooth and mellow without proper attack and edge.

 

Vocals played by Yggy sounded smoother and more soothing. Vega delivered slightly thicker & deeper vocal tones, and the vocal images were smaller but better defined. Which one sounds better is a matter of personal taste.

 

One difference between Vega & Yggy is that Vega has user-selectable filter and clock settings whereas Yggy does not. The Yggy sound does have its own character but it's hard to describe with words. DACs these days really should be auditioned carefully before commitment. Since the Yggy is not user-adjustable it is especially important to listen for yourself to decide.

[tboooe]

Vega delivered slightly thicker & deeper vocal tones,

I must admit this sounds very appealing to me! Getting an audition of the Yggy is easy enough though I dont think I will be able to A/B test against the Vega though.

[Black]

Probably right, but Schiit has not had to do much groundwork in R&D compared to Benchmark--I bought a BiFrost when it came out and used for a month and liked it. I'd like to test both side by side for a year and see which one degraded the most in a professional environment. DACs are not that complicated when you remove the transport aspect. Schiit was brilliant and chose the perfect component to market, and sell at a reasonable cost. Their CS is second to none or it used to be.