New Keith Jarrett 24/96 remasters on Qobuz

[wdw]

Just redbook AFAIR.

 

I find it hard to imagine a highly regarded label such as EMI would re-issue their cataogue in red book posing as high rez, especially in these later days of Audacity Cowboys.

[mkrzych]

I find it hard to imagine a highly regarded label such as EMI would re-issue their cataogue in red book posing as high rez, especially in these later days of Audacity Cowboys.

 

Oh, you'd be surprised! Anyway, it was recorded analogue. How they did remaster I don't know, would like to know for sure.

[Musicophile]

@craigheartley: does the booklet say anything interesting about provenance?

[wdw]

My Song is from 1978, I don't think DAT was around by then.

My red book CD of At the Blue Note, disc three, recorded in 1994, is just a perfect recording ... Don't know off hand but suspect it was AAD. Dynamic and spacious, etc....the best of Keith and the Band. His "When I Fall in Love" is incomparable.

[firedog]

Well, it wasn't recorded at 24/192 from how that looks.

Maybe it was transferred at 24/96 and mixed/mastered at 24/192. I bought the "1971 Fillmore Concerts" in 24/192 and turns out it was done that way. If so, no reason to pay extra for the 192.

[craighartley]

@craigheartley: does the booklet say anything interesting about provenance?

 

No. The PDF download booklets for My Song and Belonging seem to replicate the 'original' CD booklets.

[Musicophile]

My red book CD of At the Blue Note, disc three, recorded in 1994, is just a perfect recording ... Don't know off hand but suspect it was AAD. Dynamic and spacious, etc....the best of Keith and the Band. His "When I Fall in Love" is incomparable.

 

Fully agree. Many of these albums were engineered by Jan Erik Kongshaug, a true master.

[wdw]

Fully agree. Many of these albums were engineered by Jan Erik Kongshaug, a true master.

Do you when they migrated to DDD recording?

[craighartley]

Well, it wasn't recorded at 24/192 from how that looks.

Maybe it was transferred at 24/96 and mixed/mastered at 24/192. I bought the "1971 Fillmore Concerts" in 24/192 and turns out it was done that way. If so, no reason to pay extra for the 192.

 

Highresaudio doesn't charge extra for the 192, and as far as I can see the 96 isn't available at Qobuz.

[wdw]

Highresaudio doesn't charge extra for the 192, and as far as I can see the 96 isn't available at Qobuz.

 

It appears you have the 24/96 of Belonging...do you have the redbooh to compare it to? If so, please share your impressions when you have the time and inclination.

regards,

WDW

[Musicophile]

Do you when they migrated to DDD recording?

 

No, but Discogs still has Standards (recorded 1983) as AAD.

 

http://www.discogs.com/Keith-Jarrett-Standards-Vol-1/release/3912691

[craighartley]

Well, it wasn't recorded at 24/192 from how that looks.

Maybe it was transferred at 24/96 and mixed/mastered at 24/192. I bought the "1971 Fillmore Concerts" in 24/192 and turns out it was done that way. If so, no reason to pay extra for the 192.

 

Could you kindly explain why you can tell it wasn't transferred at 24/192 please? I'm a novice at using MusicScope but the high frequency content seems to me comparable to the graphic analysis of a 24/192 master tape file in the MusicScope manual:

 

 

If it was derived from 24/96 wouldn't you get a noticeable fall-off above 48khz?

[craighartley]

 

From My Song 24/192

[firedog]

I'm not an expert, but basically there isn't much above 22khz, as you would expect from an analog recording. In addition, you have to look at how many db down the frequencies you see are. Even the stuff thats there, if it's more than 100db down, I'd say you aren't hearing much, if anything at all. (And that's understatement). It's probably just tape noise, anyway.

 

I'm attaching a plot of the Art Blakey recording "A Night in Tunisia", recorded in 1960. This is from the Blue Note 24/192, which we know BN actually transferred from tape at 24/192.

 

 

Note that the db dropoff of the frequencies and db is more gradual. I think this is more like what you should see from a true 24/192 transfer, even if the instrumentation is different.

 

Could you kindly explain why you can tell it wasn't transferred at 24/192 please? I'm a novice at using MusicScope but the high frequency content seems to me comparable to the graphic analysis of a 24/192 master tape file in the MusicScope manual:

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]18392[/ATTACH]

 

If it was derived from 24/96 wouldn't you get a noticeable fall-off above 48khz?

[CatManDo]

Do you when they migrated to DDD recording?

 

It depends on the studio the ECM label used.

 

Tonstudio Bauer in Ludwigsburg used digital recording very early, while the US and Norway studios followed much later.

 

So there are 1981 digital recordings and 1986 analogue recordings from ECM.

 

http://www.discogs.com/Keith-Jarrett-Invocations-The-Moth-And-The-Flame-Promo/release/4727798

[AnotherSpin]

I still have the vinyl of My Song in the basement. It was my 2nd jazz album ever bought. I was listening to the tape copy I made in the car pretty much every day for a while.

 

Interesting...) I believe the first jazz album I purchased was Arbour Zena, and My Song, Byablue and Koln Concert were among the next eight or ten. I also had Arbour Zena in a box with other few LPs I kept as a souvenir from those times in garage for many years, and I could not remember now what's happened with that box.

[wdw]

Highresaudio.com does not sell EMI into North America.....and HDTracks doesn't carry Belonging in high rez...how absurd...willing to pay for the product but local area marketing rights deny me access....

[Solstice380]

Just redbook AFAIR.

 

Yes, they have had many 44/16 downloads on there for awhile. They now have quite a few at 96 or 192 / 24. No info on provenance, just a 2015 copyright.

[Musicophile]

Highresaudio.com does not sell EMI into North America.....and HDTracks doesn't carry Belonging in high rez...how absurd...willing to pay for the product but local area marketing rights deny me access....

ECM is a German label, so Highresaudio, which is pretty much the only local German outlet, gets preferential treatment for the home market. Whether those old fashioned territorial rights for a very "global" product like a download makes sense in the 21st century, is indeed a completely different question. To be fair, more often than not, stuff is only available in the US and not in Europe...

 

That said I'd expect these new remasters being available by the usual US outlets eventually.

 

Just purchased Standards vol. 2 in 24/192 (I had the choice to download 24/96 or 24/192 version without any incremental fee). Will report back.

[Musicophile]

 

Here's the Musiscope (just purchased that as well, nice tool) analysis of track 1 of Standards vol. 2, downloaded as ALAC 24/192 from Qobuz.

 

 

Similar picture as above, little content above approx. 24 kHz.

 

JRivers DR analysis shows same values for the redbook and the 24/192 remaster (rather impressive 14-15 by the way).

 

So how does it sound? I'm comparing just now vs. my redbook rip, and while as usual the differences are not huge, to my ears the highres sounds more transparent and open, the typical (perceived?) advantages of highres vs. redbook on my system. (That said, I have A+ resample redbook to 24/88, so if you're a skeptic you could say all I do is comparing the quality of the Isotope SRC to unmodified playback).

 

Would I reliably pick the highres from redbook in a blind test? right now I'd say probably but am too lazy to do it (and it's certainly easier on my new Sennheiser HDVA600/HD800 combo which is among the most resolving audio chains I've heard).

 

So in a nutshell, is it worth shelling out a painful €20 for 46 min of music, that most likely you purchased already once or twice? If you really like the album, then probably yes.

 

And in any case, Standards vol. 2 is the fantastic album I remember it to be and worth being in every collection! An audiophile and musical gem.

[wdw]

ECM is a German label, so Highresaudio, which is pretty much the only local German outlet, gets preferential treatment for the home market. Whether those old fashioned territorial rights for a very "global" product like a download makes sense in the 21st century, is indeed a completely different question. To be fair, more often than not, stuff is only available in the US and not in Europe...

 

That said I'd expect these new remasters being available by the usual US outlets eventually.

 

Just purchased Standards vol. 2 in 24/192 (I had the choice to download 24/96 or 24/192 version without any incremental fee). Will report back.

Gooogle chrome, hola and paypal....downloading now...will post impressions. A desert island disc if ever one.

[Musicophile]

To complement, track 6. Same picture.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]18426[/ATTACH]

 

Report generated by the MusicScope 1.3.8 - http://www.xivero.com

 

 

File: 01-06-Keith_Jarrett-I_Fall_In_Love_Too_Easily-SMRP.m4a

 

 

Audio format: PCM

Bit depth: 24 bit

Sample rate: 192.0 kHz

 

 

Cut-Off Frequency: 28.4 kHz

 

TPL Left: -3.6 dB

TPL Right: -2.2 dB

TPL Mid: -3.2 dB

TPL Side: -13.6 dB

RMS Left: -25.5 dB

RMS Right: -24.6 dB

RMS Mid: -25.2 dB

RMS Side: -38.6 dB

CREST Avg.: 9.0 dB

IS L/M: 0

IS R/S: 0

 

Max. M-Loudness: -10.9 dB

Max. S-Loudness: -15.5 dB

Integrated Loudness: -22.1 dB

Loudness Range: 13.5 dB

PLR Avg.: 6.3 dB

 

Spectrum:

[kHz] [dB]

1 -15.1

2 -30.2

3 -32.3

4 -37.2

5 -34.6

6 -35.7

7 -41.8

8 -40.9

9 -39.7

10 -37.7

11 -41.9

12 -38.2

13 -39.0

14 -40.1

15 -46.7

16 -48.6

17 -53.8

18 -55.2

19 -57.7

20 -56.9

21 -65.1

22 -70.2

23 -66.8

24 -74.6

25 -75.4

26 -78.3

27 -79.8

28 -82.9

29 -83.9

30 -85.5

31 -85.6

32 -85.4

33 -86.8

34 -87.9

35 -88.4

36 -89.1

37 -88.7

38 -90.5

39 -92.0

40 -92.4

41 -93.8

42 -94.4

43 -95.1

44 -96.1

45 -97.6

46 -98.1

47 -98.2

48 -99.8

49 -99.1

[wdw]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]18425[/ATTACH]

 

Here's the Musiscope (just purchased that as well, nice tool) analysis of track 1 of Standards vol. 2, downloaded as ALAC 24/192 from Qobuz.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]18424[/ATTACH]

 

Similar picture as above, little content above approx. 24 kHz.

 

JRivers DR analysis shows same values for the redbook and the 24/192 remaster (rather impressive 14-15 by the way).

 

So how does it sound? I'm comparing just now vs. my redbook rip, and while as usual the differences are not huge, to my ears the highres sounds more transparent and open, the typical (perceived?) advantages of highres vs. redbook on my system. (That said, I have A+ resample redbook to 24/88, so if you're a skeptic you could say all I do is comparing the quality of the Isotope SRC to unmodified playback).

 

Would I reliably pick the highres from redbook in a blind test? right now I'd say probably but am too lazy to do it (and it's certainly easier on my new Sennheiser HDVA600/HD800 combo which is among the most resolving audio chains I've heard).

 

So in a nutshell, is it worth shelling out a painful €20 for 46 min of music, that most likely you purchased already once or twice? If you really like the album, then probably yes.

 

And in any case, Standards vol. 2 is the fantastic album I remember it to be and worth being in every collection!

 

Fair review...suspect I will a similar experience....will have to check out Standards, Vol. 2. Haven't heard it.

Best

WDW

[mkrzych]

Thank you @wdw and @Musiciphile for the reports. Very valuable. Guys from highresaudio saying that 24/96 is in fact all you need in that case, but for the provenance it may take few days because ECM is contacting mastering engineers for the information. Qobuz responded that for sure files are from original ECM tapes.

[craighartley]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]18425[/ATTACH]

 

Here's the Musiscope (just purchased that as well, nice tool) analysis of track 1 of Standards vol. 2, downloaded as ALAC 24/192 from Qobuz.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]18424[/ATTACH]

 

Similar picture as above, little content above approx. 24 kHz.

 

JRivers DR analysis shows same values for the redbook and the 24/192 remaster (rather impressive 14-15 by the way).

 

So how does it sound? I'm comparing just now vs. my redbook rip, and while as usual the differences are not huge, to my ears the highres sounds more transparent and open, the typical (perceived?) advantages of highres vs. redbook on my system. (That said, I have A+ resample redbook to 24/88, so if you're a skeptic you could say all I do is comparing the quality of the Isotope SRC to unmodified playback).

 

Would I reliably pick the highres from redbook in a blind test? right now I'd say probably but am too lazy to do it (and it's certainly easier on my new Sennheiser HDVA600/HD800 combo which is among the most resolving audio chains I've heard).

 

So in a nutshell, is it worth shelling out a painful €20 for 46 min of music, that most likely you purchased already once or twice? If you really like the album, then probably yes.

 

And in any case, Standards vol. 2 is the fantastic album I remember it to be and worth being in every collection! An audiophile and musical gem.

 

Interesting because that's very different from the MusicScope analysis I posted of My Song and Belonging where the cutoff frequency is close to 70khz.