The "Official" Aurender Discussion Thread

[jon2020]

3 hours ago, isquirrel said:

Yes for non MQA files

 

Thanks again, isquirrel.

This is very reassuring.

[Foxman50]

6 hours ago, isquirrel said:

Its not on line, the files are on MSB web site under support for the Select DAC. You download them and play them from your source and watch the screen on the DAC. There are no use to anyone who doesn't have a MSB DAC. 

 

What a great function for them to make available to you. And perfect test then for proving the Aurender does not mess with non MQA files. Thanks again for taking the time and to respond. Very much appreciated.

[Foxman50]

Apologies for continuing with this but its playing on my mind, if you pardon the pun.

 

Play one of these MSB provided files through several different streamers and while they will all illuminate the bit perfect light on your MSB DAC, they will undoubtedly sound different depending on the streamer.

 

im sure there are a myriad of reasons for this, but if they all illuminate the bit perfect light then how is the sound differing. More importantly if they can sound different whilst still being bit perfect, then is it not possible that the Aurender can alter the sound with its MQA filter enabled whilst still indicating bit perfect.

 

With my simple logic all streamers should sound identical, which is clearly not the case.

[Vincent1234]

13 hours ago, Foxman50 said:

Apologies for continuing with this but its playing on my mind, if you pardon the pun.

 

Play one of these MSB provided files through several different streamers and while they will all illuminate the bit perfect light on your MSB DAC, they will undoubtedly sound different depending on the streamer.

 

im sure there are a myriad of reasons for this, but if they all illuminate the bit perfect light then how is the sound differing. More importantly if they can sound different whilst still being bit perfect, then is it not possible that the Aurender can alter the sound with its MQA filter enabled whilst still indicating bit perfect.

 

With my simple logic all streamers should sound identical, which is clearly not the case.

If all streamers sound the same Aurender wouldn't make different models and I wouldn't have upgraded to the W20 over time (via the X100L and N10), just like several others here have done. ?

So no, all streamers do not sound identical. That's what our hobby is all about. Better ones simply sound better, despite the fact that all likely have a bit-perfect output to your DAC.

Interesting question, though. Despite outputting the right 0's and 1's there are indeed very significant SQ differences. Audiophilia is a land full of mysteries. ?However, what the bit-perfect test proves is that no manipulation was done to the non-MQA files by the Aurender. Otherwise the test would have failed for sure.

[Foxman50]

Indeed i have an N100 and N10, and as such is very easy to compare, Its quite staggering the difference between the two. Who knows maybe I'll get to try a W20 one of these days.

 

When you start to question why they sound different though, well it will need someone way more knowledgeable than myself to answer that. Fascinating hobby this.

 

anyway maybe this is a subject for another thread. 

 

 

[NordicBob]

I haven’t compared any of the models, but my dealer told me that the N10 was the sweet spot in the Aurender lineup so I took his word on it  and bought the N10.  

[Vincent1234]

10 hours ago, NordicBob said:

I haven’t compared any of the models, but my dealer told me that the N10 was the sweet spot in the Aurender lineup so I took his word on it  and bought the N10.  

I think your dealer is right. ? The N10 is absolutely great. I was lucky to being offered a used W20 in perfect condition. Would probably not have bought it at full retail price. The step up in SQ however is very big once again, as it should be.

[sidvee]

I recently bought a n100h.  However I am unable to play .iso files.  Any advice on how to play back these files?

Thanks.

Cheers,

Sid

[Foxman50]

52 minutes ago, sidvee said:

I recently bought a n100h.  However I am unable to play .iso files.  Any advice on how to play back these files?

Thanks.

Cheers,

Sid

 

You cant play DSD.ISO files directly you need to extract to somthing like .dsf

 

there is a free PC utility called iso2dsd which works very well for this purpose.

 

a friend of mine ripped all my SACD's to ISO using a hacked playstation he got off the net. I was very sceptical about the whole process but they sound superb.

[Mazza]

1 hour ago, Vincent1234 said:

I think your dealer is right. ? The N10 is absolutely great. I was lucky to being offered a used W20 in perfect condition. Would probably not have bought it at full retail price. The step up in SQ however is very big once again, as it should be.

 

Me too! Managed to get an ex-demo W20 for the price of an N10. No brainer 

 

When demo'd both at dealer I found the SQ similar, not a stellar difference, but the W20 definitely had the edge on soundstage, precision and that extra bit of detail even on 44.1/16. That sold it for me because I use near/mid field monitors.

 

But TBH, if i hadn't heard the W20, i'd have been more than satisfied with the N10; it's definitely a very very fine bit of kit.

[mjb]

Can a Mac user recommend a backup method/strategy/program? Since the new SW 5.11.36 with an "Update to SAMBA supporting SMBv2 for security reasons and with improved connectivity" simply copying in the finder fails too often to be useful.

[Mazza]

For all my backups I have been using Sync Pro, works with my NAS, Timemachine, Windows PC, portable drives, portable players and Aurender. So long as you can set up a folder share on any device, it will see it on the network.

 

Has very powerful options for filtering out stuff and does incremental backups et etc.  Definitely recommended 

[Vincent1234]

5 hours ago, Foxman50 said:

 

You cant play DSD.ISO files directly you need to extract to somthing like .dsf

 

there is a free PC utility called iso2dsd which works very well for this purpose.

 

a friend of mine ripped all my SACD's to ISO using a hacked playstation he got off the net. I was very sceptical about the whole process but they sound superb.

It's not needed to convert ISO's yourself as your Aurender will take care of extracting them to individual DSD tracks automatically. All you have to do is simply copy the ISO's to your Aurender and have a little patience. After a while they will be converted to invididual DSD tracks and you are ready to go.

[Vincent1234]

5 hours ago, Mazza said:

 

Me too! Managed to get an ex-demo W20 for the price of an N10. No brainer 

 

When demo'd both at dealer I found the SQ similar, not a stellar difference, but the W20 definitely had the edge on soundstage, precision and that extra bit of detail even on 44.1/16. That sold it for me because I use near/mid field monitors.

 

But TBH, if i hadn't heard the W20, i'd have been more than satisfied with the N10; it's definitely a very very fine bit of kit.

I agree that the N10 is great. However in my setup the W20 was a very big step up indeed and much more so than I expected. Much more analogue sounding, more quietness and blackness during soft or quiet passages, leading to more microdetails, more sound, detail and better soundstaging. Of course all will depend on the quality of ones own system.

[Foxman50]

1 hour ago, Vincent1234 said:

It's not needed to convert ISO's yourself as your Aurender will take care of extracting them to individual DSD tracks automatically. All you have to do is simply copy the ISO's to your Aurender and have a little patience. After a while they will be converted to invididual DSD tracks and you are ready to go.

 

Really?, i never new that. Wish id kept one of the ISO's, would love to try that 

[Vincent1234]

1 hour ago, Foxman50 said:

 

Really?, i never new that. Wish id kept one of the ISO's, would love to try that 

Next time then! ?

[isquirrel]

14 hours ago, Vincent1234 said:

I agree that the N10 is great. However in my setup the W20 was a very big step up indeed and much more so than I expected. Much more analogue sounding, more quietness and blackness during soft or quiet passages, leading to more microdetails, more sound, detail and better soundstaging. Of course all will depend on the quality of ones own system.

My findings also, however the feature that sealed the W20 purchase was the Word Clock function which allows you to slave the Aurenders clock to your DAC's clock. Given my MSB Select has the optional Femto 33 clock it is much more accurate than the Aurenders clocks.

[Vincent1234]

2 hours ago, isquirrel said:

My findings also, however the feature that sealed the W20 purchase was the Word Clock function which allows you to slave the Aurenders clock to your DAC's clock. Given my MSB Select has the optional Femto 33 clock it is much more accurate than the Aurenders clocks.

True, that's a very nice W20 feature. The previous W20 owner, who's a friend of mine, tried that extensively (through double AES) against a top-spec USB connection and since the latter sounded equally good and is much less expensive I ended up with that connection too. Obviously USB doesn't require any synching with the dCS clock, since it's asynchronous. 

[mjb]

1 hour ago, Vincent1234 said:

True, that's a very nice W20 feature. The previous W20 owner, who's a friend of mine, tried that extensively (through double AES) against a top-spec USB connection and since the latter sounded equally good and is much less expensive I ended up with that connection too. Obviously USB doesn't require any synching with the dCS clock, since it's asynchronous. 

Yes, I think it can get a bit academic, especially trying to extract the last pico-ounce of goodness. Well implemented async-USB is good enough for me too.

[michaelD]

On ‎3‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 1:31 PM, Vincent1234 said:

See my earlier post on separating the first and second MQA unfold. My experience is that having the first unfold done by the Aurender and only the second by my dCS DAC improves SQ. But YMMV.

Sorry for the late reply but you can do the unfold in the Aurender and then do the rendering only in your DAC?  There is no issue with your DAC to bring in an unfolded file and then only do the rendering is that right?  You also say that you actually like the sound better splitting it up like this is that right?  Have you contacted MSB to discuss your findings and if so wonder what they say.  Do you have any idea or feel that all DAC's the unfold and render will act like yours is?  That is does the MSB DAC do anything special in the unfold or rendering process that may make this more likely to accept a unfolded file from the Aurender then say others?  Also are you using a USB or XLR connection from the Aurender to your DAC?

 

The reason I ask is I really like the Aurender look on the conductor and on the unit and would like to do exactly what you are doing once my DAC can unfold and render.

 

Also since you can hear the whole process what would you say the unfold process compared to the unfold plus render process is like 10%, 25% 90% of the sound improvement?  Just curious. 

[Vincent1234]

5 hours ago, michaelD said:

Sorry for the late reply but you can do the unfold in the Aurender and then do the rendering only in your DAC?  There is no issue with your DAC to bring in an unfolded file and then only do the rendering is that right?  You also say that you actually like the sound better splitting it up like this is that right?  Have you contacted MSB to discuss your findings and if so wonder what they say.  Do you have any idea or feel that all DAC's the unfold and render will act like yours is?  That is does the MSB DAC do anything special in the unfold or rendering process that may make this more likely to accept a unfolded file from the Aurender then say others?  Also are you using a USB or XLR connection from the Aurender to your DAC?

 

The reason I ask is I really like the Aurender look on the conductor and on the unit and would like to do exactly what you are doing once my DAC can unfold and render.

 

Also since you can hear the whole process what would you say the unfold process compared to the unfold plus render process is like 10%, 25% 90% of the sound improvement?  Just curious. 

I don't  have an MSB DAC, but a dCS. ?Please refer to one of my previous posts explaining in detail how the dCS is unfolding MQA. In general it helps SQ if any processing load is shared over multiple devices. In my case I rate the SQ gain doing so at 30%, but this will vary on your setup and cabling quality. Note that the W20 uses battery power, which improves SQ a lot. I'm using an ultra high quality USB cable between Aurender and the DAC (Crystal Dreamline Plus). Also this helps SQ a LOT!

[Vincent1234]

On 20-3-2018 at 1:16 PM, michaelD said:

Sorry for the late reply but you can do the unfold in the Aurender and then do the rendering only in your DAC?  There is no issue with your DAC to bring in an unfolded file and then only do the rendering is that right? ................... Do you have any idea or feel that all DAC's the unfold and render will act like yours is?

To add to this specific question: it should be no problem at all for any full MQA DAC to accept a signal that already has the first MQA unfold performed before it enters the DAC. This is part of the MQA standard and as you can read here it works perfectly fine on isquirrel's MSB Select (or is this DAC not MQA yet..?) as well as on my dCS. ?

Could be useful if others here would chime in too with their experiences using other brands of MQA DAC's while also letting their Aurender perform the first MQA unfold.

[michaelD]

1 hour ago, Vincent1234 said:

To add to this specific question: it should be no problem at all for any full MQA DAC to accept a signal that already has the first MQA unfold performed before it enters the DAC. This is part of the MQA standard and as you can read here it works perfectly fine on isquirrel's MSB Select (or is this DAC not MQA yet..?) as well as on my dCS. ?

Could be useful if others here would chime in too with their experiences using other brands of MQA DAC's while also letting their Aurender perform the first MQA unfold.

To me this is great news in that I think the Aurender group did a great job both in the Conductor app and on the OLED screen to hilite MQA tracks!  I for one would hate to give this up once my DAC does both functions internally.   Also now with the great search feature for MQA its will be so much more convenient to find and play MQA.  I guess that feature will work if you unfold in the Aurender or your DAC - I have not tired but assume so.  So yes if others can chime in that have a DAC that both unfold and renders does it work to unfold in the Aurender and then play just fine through your DAC.  Mention your DAC and also comment on the sound quality if better or worse split up or all at once in the DAC.  

 

Personally I'm having some doubts that the sound quality is any better with the unfold in the Aurender and just the rendering in the DAC Vs all in the DAC.  Be curious the responses and any reasoning why it maybe better to separate the two processes sound quality wise.   I know Berkeley seems to be one company that I guess mandates it because of their design.  For those that do own such a DAC (beyond not having the computer power in the Berkeley) what is their reasoning???  

 

Also curious to know for those that can experience the full MQA experience what % of the total better sound is from the unfold only - any idea??

[NordicBob]

On 3/18/2018 at 9:42 AM, Vincent1234 said:

I agree that the N10 is great. However in my setup the W20 was a very big step up indeed and much more so than I expected. Much more analogue sounding, more quietness and blackness during soft or quiet passages, leading to more microdetails, more sound, detail and better soundstaging. Of course all will depend on the quality of ones own system.

 

Although my N10 sounds wonderful, I think that I might ask my dealer if I can home audition a W20 to see for myself how much better it sounds in my system. 

[Vincent1234]

18 minutes ago, NordicBob said:

 

Although my N10 sounds wonderful, I think that I might ask my dealer if I can home audition a W20 to see for myself how much better it sounds in my system. 

Let us know how it works out for you! ?