God and the Audiophiles

[AlainGr]

Yes indeed. I have quite a good recording of the original , a rare thing for pop/rock classics. I will try and find the particulars but in the meantime this youtube acoustic version is nice

 

"And When I Die" is a song written by American singer Laura Nyro. It was first recorded by American folk group Peter, Paul and Mary in 1966. Nyro then recorded it on her 1967 debut album More Than a New Discovery. However, the song is probably best known for its third version by American rock group Blood, Sweat & Tears, which reached #2 on the U.S. Billboard Hot 100. The song gives a positive outlook about death, stating, in the chorus, "And when I die/and when I'm gone/there'll be one child born and a world/to carry on/to carry on."[1]

The song was later recorded by American rock group Blood, Sweat & Tears for their self-titled second album

From <And When I Die - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia>

 

"Spinning Wheel" is also a knockout from that album.

+1 Very good

What I like about music is that it can suddenly throw you into a unexpected direction I did not know it came from Laura Nyro, then I saw her version of "Walk on by", then jumped to the Stranglers version of it...

 

Sorry for being OT...

[petaluma]

Yes indeed. I have quite a good recording of the original , a rare thing for pop/rock classics. I will try and find the particulars but in the meantime this youtube acoustic version is nice

 

The song was later recorded by American rock group Blood, Sweat & Tears for their self-titled second album

From <And When I Die - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia>

 

"Spinning Wheel" is also a knockout from that album.

 

I have two copies of the record, an original pressing and a new pressing. The record has some of the best dynamics of any pop/rock albums I have. Really well recorded.

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

+1 Very good

What I like about music is that it can suddenly throw you into a unexpected direction I did not know it came from Laura Nyro, then I saw her version of "Walk on by", then jumped to the Stranglers version of it...

 

Sorry for being OT...

 

I dont see it as off topic...a song about death, afterlife, faith and its complexities ;-)

[petaluma]

I dont see it as off topic...a song about death, afterlife, faith and its complexities ;-)

 

Quite logical actually....

 

And speaking of logic RIP Mr. Nimoy. You created a great iconic character that brought happiness to my life and I am sure many others.

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

And speaking of logic RIP Mr. Nimoy. You created a great iconic character that brought happiness to my life and I am sure many others.

 

Absolutely +1

 

The original series often seemed to delve into the nature of what it is like to be human, mysteries of the universe, and even questioning faith and belief in deity when exploring alien cultures IIRC

[AlainGr]

Quite logical actually....

 

And speaking of logic RIP Mr. Nimoy. You created a great iconic character that brought happiness to my life and I am sure many others.

Absolutely +1

 

The original series often seemed to delve into the nature of what it is like to be human, mysteries of the universe, and even questioning faith and belief in deity when exploring alien cultures IIRC

 

I am with you gentlemen. My English too often forbid me to express my thoughts, but I can certainly express my agreement...

[petaluma]

I am with you gentlemen. My English too often forbid me to express my thoughts, but I can certainly express my agreement...

 

You are doing great....

[AlainGr]

You are doing great....

Thanks Sometimes though I don't have the right vocabulary to say what I would like to say... That explains why I don't contribute much...

[petaluma]

Thanks Sometimes though I don't have the right vocabulary to say what I would like to say... That explains why I don't contribute much...

 

I understand but please do not let that stop you! There are a number of folks on the site for whom English is not their native language. I think for the most part all do great and we native English speakers can usually figure it out. Frankly I think some of us native English speakers are harder to decipher sometimes, and I am definitely including myself in that group!

[AlainGr]

I have to say that a part of my difficulties come from acronyms I have to check often, but I will try my best, unless I feel I am writing like a little boy But thanks again for the kind words and for this little moment of peace in a sometime agitated forum

[petaluma]

I have to say that a part of my difficulties come from acronyms I have to check often, but I will try my best, unless I feel I am writing like a little boy But thanks again for the kind words and for this little moment of peace in a sometime agitated forum

 

Anytime have a good evening.

[Paul R]

I am with you gentlemen. My English too often forbid me to express my thoughts, but I can certainly express my agreement...

 

Your English is far better than my Crench, and it is always worth the effort to read what you have to say.

[sandyk]

The song was later recorded by American rock group Blood, Sweat & Tears for their self-titled second album

From <And When I Die - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia>

 

"Spinning Wheel" is also a knockout from that album.

 

That track also appears in a Sony BluSpec comparison set. With direct CD play, the BluSpec version does indeed sound better than the RB CD version . (included)

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

I understand but please do not let that stop you! There are a number of folks on the site for whom English is not their native language. I think for the most part all do great and we native English speakers can usually figure it out. Frankly I think some of us native English speakers are harder to decipher sometimes, and I am definitely including myself in that group!

 

+1000

Alain, your English is vastly better than my French will ever be. You make yourself well understood. Your opinions are valued so please don't let a little grammar or LOA (thats, lack of acronyms, I just made it up) hold you back.

 

Cheers

David

[petaluma]

+1000

Alain, your English is vastly better than my French will ever be. You make yourself well understood. Your opinions are valued so please don't let a little grammar or LOA (thats, lack of acronyms, I just made it up) hold you back.

 

Cheers

David

 

I am reminded of the great quote by George Bernard Shaw, "England and America are two countries separated by a common language".

 

Edit: David I would assume that would include you folks as you were once part of the empire.

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

I am reminded of the great quote by George Bernard Shaw, "England and America are two countries separated by a common language".

 

Edit: David I would assume that would include you folks as you were once part of the empire.

 

Yes Indeed. We are still part of the Commonwealth and the Queen is still our head of state.

[mdsn]

Mmm- please do not take this as insulting, and please remember, I belive utterly that you have the right to believe what you choose to believe, and have to make up your own mind, by yourself, without coercion. And please do not apologize to me for thinking for yourself.

 

Hi Paul,

 

I have a pretty thick skin, so no worries. I'm not trying to be personally insulting either, so apologies if I ever overstep.

 

What you are doing, intentionally or not, is equating anyone who is part of a religion as being stupid. That is simply an error. Nor is faith claiming you know something that can not be proved. More often, faith is knowing you do not know something, but living with it anyhow.

 

I am definitely not equating belief with stupidity. In fact, I even referenced Francis Collins and acknowledged that he is incredibly intelligent, yet believes. The question to ask is, why does he believe and are his reasons for believing rational and justified? I don't think anyone would ever think you are a stupid person. Clearly you are an intelligent person. As you mentioned, this is an error to equate religious belief with stupidity, and I agree. However, a belief in a God (depending on how one defines his God) can be for stupid reasons, and that is what I focus on.

 

Also, some misunderstand the argument from ignorance fallacy. It doesn't mean one is calling the other stupid. It just means that one is asserting something to be true, because it has not been, or cannot be proven false (unfalsifiable). The God of the Gaps is the same thing.

 

Nor is faith claiming you know something that can not be proved.

 

In Christianity it is.

 

More often, faith is knowing you do not know something, but living with it anyhow.

 

This is not religious faith. Religious faith is worse. Religious faith says you do know, and you accept it as true without reason or evidence, and then substitute faith in place of actual reason and evidence. This is pretending to know things one does not know. I've never met a Christian who said they do not know whether their God exists. Can one be a Christian at that point?

 

Faith is not just tied to religion though, it is part of the human makeup.

 

I'm surprised you said this after watching the video I sent. This is an equivocation fallacy. Can you name one thing I have faith in that is similar to faith in the way it is used in religion? If you think about, I'm sure you will find there is some evidence, reason, or justification for everything I believe.

 

The part of us that music touches is the same part of us that needs faith, love, art, and so on. I would call it our soul.

 

What is a soul? Here you describe human instinct and human emotion, then attach this word soul, which I assume is the theistic definition, without any justification. Human emotions and feelings are the product of a mind and end when the mind ceases to exist, as far as we know.

 

How we got it, well that is a matter of faith. Certainly we evolved it.

 

This is pretending to know things one does not know. You simply assert this notion of a soul exists; you believe it's true for no reason or justification at all; and then justify it by appealing to faith; and even make the leap to making knowledge claims about how it came to be.

 

Was that planned and by whom?

 

This is begging the question. You haven't even demonstrated a soul yet and you're asking "who" created it. You're smuggling in a thinking creator.

 

And just as certainly, other species here share some of that same spark with us.

 

Yes, other species have instinct and emotions. There is no justification for believing any more of it than that.

 

That is the core of faith I think, and is anything but incompatible with scientific reasoning.

 

If I claim to have a cure for cancer, and offer faith as my proof, how do you think that would fly? Faith is not compatible with science.

 

No religious wars would ever start if the people agitating them had faith.

 

Religion leads to faith

faith leads to false belief

false belief leads to ignorance

ignorance leads to fear

fear leads to hate

and hate leads to suffering.

 

How this relates to audio: When I try silver cables, they sound bright and harsh to me, so I swapped them for copper and I'm happy. This did not impact my life at all. If someone tells me I have to revolve my entire life around a belief in an invisible supernatural being, I'm going to require a bit more than just blind faith. Sorry.

[mdsn]

Originally Posted by Paul R

It never ends. Ever. Infinite. God.

 

No no, not at all. But I should have quoted your comment to that. So *that* (comment) I am not able to express and so I didn't even attempt. Question remains :

 

Would it be possible to say what you said when being a Christian yourself ?

 

Would "we" be able to respond as how you did (and I wanted to) to that text of Paul when being a Christian. My suggestion of course is "not" (because it requires a sort of illegal imagination). Small part of your response :

 

Strong text of course, but/and easy to say for someone like me (haha).

 

Hi Peter,

 

Sorry, I can't quite make out the question. I think I have an idea, but didn't want to respond with the wrong understanding.

[Cycleman]

I am reminded of the great quote by George Bernard Shaw, "England and America are two countries separated by a common language".

 

Edit: David I would assume that would include you folks as you were once part of the empire.

 

Yes Indeed. We are still part of the Commonwealth and the Queen is still our head of state.

 

Although I would think that US English and Australian English are distinctly closer than US English and England English.

 

I mean, each nation has its idiosyncratic terms, but...just an impression.

 

Dave, who enjoys going through his two audio systems and his too-many bicycles and counting up on each how many different nations the components came from with more nations being a very nice thing

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

Although I would think that US English and Australian English are distinctly closer than US English and England English.

 

I mean, each nation has its idiosyncratic terms, but...just an impression.

 

Dave, who enjoys going through his two audio systems and his too-many bicycles and counting up on each how many different nations the components came from with more nations being a very nice thing

 

Having recently driven around England I sometimes thought even English English was a different language from North to South, or even areas of London, lol. It is similar in Oz with quite different accents but just nowhere near as many and no where near as regionally based. From my brief experience travelling in USA, and from movies, the range of accents in the States seems closer to that in England, albeit sounding very different in each country. In my experience English will get you by in most places (but it helps to say hello,thanks, and please in the native tongue) but a smile is a universal language

[Daphne]

Religious faith is being passed about as if there is some type of reasonable logic involved. All the logic is in favor of the deity, never in favor of the worshipers. All gods require blind faith, to believe in their intangible existence without question, otherwise a God would cease to exist. All gods are jealous of other gods, and they should be feared if their strict rules are not followed. In connection with Christianity, the only rewards are toil, self-sacrifice, and a life of redemption only to feel your God’s loving kindness, and forgiveness of one’s immortal soul in the afterlife.

 

What a wonderful concept. The formal worship of a god offers humanity the opportunity to feel there is something more to life than eating, toil, rest, and reproduction. Blind faith promises to help us prosper; overcome earthly fears, and the bonus of a heavenly afterlife or the possibility of being reincarnated into a better life.

 

For Christians everything is laid out in Exodus 20, 1 through 26. Oh, and for Christians there is a special caveat, if you covet your neighbors fine audio system, that could be tantamount to the sin of heresy requiring punishment to even your third and fourth generation. And let us not forget all the illogical and somewhat bizarre rituals involved with worshiping a God.

 

I’m just taking the position of being an observer of religions, in life I do make every attempt at being a virtuous and ethical person, (and hope my children will do the same). After all, good intent and good deed contribute to good karma and future happiness, without the need to worship a god.

 

That brings me to the infinite. Metaphysically speaking, the Infinite is all inclusive. The term stands alone, it has no opposite, there is no beginning or end, the infinite includes all and nothing. God is not the infinite; God is a human concept, part of the finite, therefore included in the infinite.

 

To experience the infinite it to be enlightened, there is no path to enlightenment, and no guide to point the way. One may be able to relate to audio in an enlightened way by contemplating the question, what is the sound of one hand clapping?

 

So, when considering the analogy of God and the Audiophiles one can spin in circles for days with attempting to compare non-empirical concepts with empirical activity. In the end, when everyone moves on to the next thread what remains is simple: what you are, or what you know, or what you believe, is what you get.

 

Now, for what I would consider a religious connection, last year I saw a dream audio system that was just stunning. While in the San Francisco Bay area, I stopped by to visit some old friends who had finished renovation on their home in Ross. They had built a new wing on the house and on the lower level is a wine room with the new listening room above. On the heavy entrance door to the listening room was a redwood burl plank. Engraved with a laser is the last half of the poem Kubla Khan, modified at the end.

 

Our Guiding Mantra

 

It was a miracle of rare device,

A sunny pleasure-dome with caves of ice!

A damsel with a dulcimer

In a vision once I saw:

It was an Abyssinian maid

And on her dulcimer she played,

Singing of Mount Abora.

Could I revive within me

Her symphony and song,

To such a deep delight ’twould win me,

That with music loud and long,

I would build that dome in air,

That sunny dome! those caves of ice!

And all who heard should see them there,

And all should cry, Beware! Beware!

His flashing eyes, his floating hair!

Weave a circle round him thrice,

And close your eyes with holy dread

For he on “AUDIO” hath fed,

And “heard the sounds” of Paradise.

 

They had created a room to worship their audio system. The interior architecture is something to behold. An oval dome on the ceiling with a sunny blue sky mural painted inside the dome, with black and white cranes flying above. All the acoustical absorption/diffusion panels were built into the wood paneled walls. Rounded curved beams cascaded down from the dome with an exquisite art nouveau pattern, like giant vines. The trim moldings had black, red, and gold leaf accents. The lighted wall sconces were large frosted glass ice icicles back lit to glow and hung from the vertical side beams. They had a pair of Living Voice Vox Olympian Speakers with the large sub woofers. Between the speakers is a long, low, antique, hand carved teak Buddha alter with 4 VTL tube mono blocks on top. The speakers and alter sat about 6 feet forward from the wall, behind the alter on a dark brown marble base is a 4 foot high bronze statue of a sitting nude woman playing a golden dulcimer.

 

Natural light was supplied through a strip of stained glass windows. The windows ran around the perimeter on three walls, about 12 inches down from the ceiling, but only 24 inches high, with an art nouveau pattern of lotus and poppy flowers, as if the entire vaulted ceiling floated on the strip of windows. On the back wall was a large 6 foot square painting of the Buddha Goddess Kurukulla (pronounced koo-roo-KOO-lei).

 

Below the painting is a shelf with a collection of Buddha statues. On either side of the painting are heavy teak doors with ornate relief carved panels of jungle scenes with dragons, tigers and elephants. The doors open to reveal their vinyl album and CD collection. The audio components are on the left wall near the entrance door sitting within built in cabinets. The wood flooring was done in a herringbone pattern and stained to match the woodwork.

 

The room is 30 feet deep and 24 feet wide. The listening position had three dark emerald green leather club chairs with ottomans. Behind the chairs, about five feet, is a long matching leather sofa. In front of the chairs is a thick Persian Bidjar rug, a geometric design of trees and flowers in dark reds and greens, gold and ivory colors. Oh, and those three, thick, 4 foot square white rabbit fur pillows for lounging on the floor was a nice touch. The exotic décor of the room had this warn enchanted feel about it, like some hidden pleasure retreat deep within an Asian palace.

 

A custom designed and built shrine to enjoy their audio system. Oh, and those bespoke Olympian horn speakers are not only exquisite works of art but the sound quality is divine. Now that is a room most any audiophile, subjective or objective nature, could possibly make a religious connection to their music.

[elcorso]

 

 

 

 

Roch

[petaluma]

Although I would think that US English and Australian English are distinctly closer than US English and England English.

 

I mean, each nation has its idiosyncratic terms, but...just an impression.

 

Dave, who enjoys going through his two audio systems and his too-many bicycles and counting up on each how many different nations the components came from with more nations being a very nice thing

 

Dave, I really like your third person introspective musings....I look forward to your quotes and I generally read your musings first...

[petaluma]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]17218[/ATTACH]

 

 

 

 

Roch

 

Roch,

 

+1 on the diaries.

 

So I see you must have been a Leonard Nimoy fan. I'm gonna miss him.....

[Cycleman]

Dave, I really like your third person introspective musings....I look forward to your quotes and I generally read your musings first...

 

Hi Petaluma,

 

Kind of you to say that, and happy you enjoy these extras.

 

At the end of last year, when I left the job I had been at for 13 years, one of the things my colleagues gently kidded me about are those posting-and-email third-person run-on-sentence sign-offs.

 

(And anyway, this thread needs as much kindness as it can get. Good work!)

 

Dave, whose main association with Petaluma is that he used to visit the town as a book rep for a New York City book publishing company many lifetimes ago and sold books to a Petaluma bookstore owner who was a very nice woman whose first name was "Gay" which as a given name kind of indicates how many lifetimes ago those visits were