The best DAC you never heard is now a production reality

[TubeLover]

Well on the product page for it on the Schiit site, they link to a user review on Head hifi. The guy rated it the best DAC of about 20, some of them very expensive (like the PS Audio DS). On the other hand, he didn't like several DACs I do. FWIW...

 

Thoughts on a bunch of DACs (and why delta-sigma sucks)

 

 

Firedog, thanks for providing some interesting reading with the guy from Head-Fi's review. I have the same issue you do, though. While he (and his ninja's) certainly cover a lot of quality DAC's, he has some great ones rated poorly, so I can't really take the overall ratings very seriously. Interesting comment about the Yggi being the current day descendant of the Theta V. It's certainly plausible given Mike Moffat's design heritage, but he has made so many comments about using new technologies in it's development it's surprising in that regard. That said, I remember wanting a Theta V5 very badly when they were current but never had the funding to make it possible.

 

JC

[Kelly]

Well on the product page for it on the Schiit site, they link to a user review on Head hifi. The guy rated it the best DAC of about 20, some of them very expensive (like the PS Audio DS). On the other hand, he didn't like several DACs I do. FWIW...

 

Thoughts on a bunch of DACs (and why delta-sigma sucks)

 

Notice the original post was from 2013 and the rankings are aggregate from himself and his "ninjas." The whole thing is absurd in its attempt to rank dacs against others that may not have been heard for years or even by the same people. His findings are in no way in-line with anything I have experienced with the dacs I have heard. Notice where he ranks the Schiit Gungnir ahead of the Auralic Vega. I have compared those two directly and the Gungnir isn't even close.

[ChrisG]

Notice the original post was from 2013 and the rankings are aggregate from himself and his "ninjas." The whole thing is absurd in its attempt to rank dacs against others that may not have been heard for years or even by the same people. His findings are in no way in-line with anything I have experienced with the dacs I have heard. Notice where he ranks the Schiit Gungnir ahead of the Auralic Vega. I have compared those two directly and the Gungnir isn't even close.

 

I guess you missed Purrin's opening comment -

 

"This is a ranking of 17+ DAC and DAC configurations by my ninjas and I. These rankings are largely based on personal preference. They should be taken with a grain of salt."

 

As with all things audio, YMMV

[firedog]

Firedog, thanks for providing some interesting reading with the guy from Head-Fi's review. I have the same issue you do, though. While he (and his ninja's) certainly cover a lot of quality DAC's, he has some great ones rated poorly, so I can't really take the overall ratings very seriously. Interesting comment about the Yggi being the current day descendant of the Theta V. It's certainly plausible given Mike Moffat's design heritage, but he has made so many comments about using new technologies in it's development it's surprising in that regard. That said, I remember wanting a Theta V5 very badly when they were current but never had the funding to make it possible.

 

JC

 

Well, it is the descendant of the Theta in the basic design concept. The specific technology no, but the basic idea of how to design a good DAC, yes.

[Ned Kelly]

Notice the original post was from 2013 and the rankings are aggregate from himself and his "ninjas." The whole thing is absurd in its attempt to rank dacs against others that may not have been heard for years or even by the same people. His findings are in no way in-line with anything I have experienced with the dacs I have heard. Notice where he ranks the Schiit Gungnir ahead of the Auralic Vega. I have compared those two directly and the Gungnir isn't even close.

 

The problem doesnt lie so much with his personal preferences, its with his legion of acolytes taking everything that is written by their guru as the absolute truth. The logic is 'well, he's articulate and he's heard all these big dollar DACs, so this must be the gospel truth !' : I cant think of a single Stereophile or TAS reviewer who was ever given that sort of 'all-knowing God' status, not even Harry Pearson. To me, and I've been beating the Yggdrasil drum from day one, the single biggest problem with Head-Fi is that you only need to post a photo of a few components and several TOTL headphones and suddenly you're the go-to guy. I sold some gear about a month ago and got hammered with PMs asking me to compare the upper and lower mids on the HD800 with those of my (now departed) LCD-X : given that our aural memory is roughly 8 minutes I doubt that anyone can make comparisons like that based purely on recollection, but purrin does it repeatedly and it's swallowed up by his adoring readership.

 

purrin has subsequently been forced to field a bazillion queries from newbie Yggy owners which start with 'So when can I expect the magic to start ?' - fuelled by the requirement to leave the DAC on 24/7 which seems to have come as a shock to some - and I respect the fact that he has told one or two that if they arent hearing the magic, it may be time to send their Yggdrasil back while they still can. Inevitably, in the way of all things on Head-Fi, there will be a backlash and many of the same people who thought this was 'the one' will be pounding their keyboards asking when someone is going to release 'their' R2R DAC. C'est la vie, but it gets awfully predictable after a couple of years.

 

e.g.

 

HD800 - 'greatest headphone ever' became 'needs the perfect amp' became 'cant live with the treble'

 

HE-6 - 'awesome ortho' became 'what the hell do I need to drive this thing' became 'impossible headphone to live with'

 

About the only exceptions are the two Stax flagships and the Headamp BHSE - everything else gets bouquets followed by a tornado of brickbats. Compare that with a site like Audiokarma where people are still very much in love with 30 and 40 year old gear. :shrug:

[aive]

 

I'm not sure that's possible, and so I'm wondering whether they're teasing the Big Claim, while what their "closed form" solution actually does is something merely difficult rather than impossible, like provide nicely behaved (possibly reversible, therefore lossless?) calculations for their interpolated and original-sample results.

 

Just speculating and blathering here, 'cause they've sure got me curious....

 

Been reading around the internets lately trying to learn about DACs, filters, up sampling, etc and came across an exact interpolation process. I.e. time domain -> FFT -> zero pad FFT -> inverse FFT resulting in up sampled time domain signal (exact interpolation values and keeping of original samples) as opposed to estimated interpolation samples based on accuracy of FIR filters.

 

Key advantages are the process:

- Keeps original samples

- Exact interpolation (bit perfect?)

 

Sound familiar?

 

I ran some basic/simple code to confirm the maths and it seemed to work well based on random number generated waveforms. I think Schiit managed to figure out how to apply this process to audio signals and managed to do so with an embedded DSP. There are a few issues inherent to audio signals that need to be managed - e.g. periodicity, large sample sizes, etc.

Additional info here:

How to Interpolate in the Time-Domain by Zero-Padding in the Frequency Domain | dspGuru.com

filters - Upsample data using FFTs. How is this exactly done? - Signal Processing Stack Exchange

[ALRAINBOW]

Here is a big claim. The audio world is extremely complex and more about individuals

Not what is better. I have very hi end systems in excess of 500K. And not sound good as I define it. Yes clean and clear but not for me. To say there is any golden device is not something I can claim with. System and individual prove to be far better than just decides. How ever there is devices that can be better than some.

[Mike Mcsweeney]

...

[Le Concombre Masqué]

I own a cheap dac he loathes (teac) and since I haven't really listened to any other I won't claim he's wrong ; nevertheless I 'm surprised by the low level of the speakers he used for those tests

I guess you missed Purrin's opening comment -

 

"This is a ranking of 17+ DAC and DAC configurations by my ninjas and I. These rankings are largely based on personal preference. They should be taken with a grain of salt."

 

As with all things audio, YMMV

[ALRAINBOW]

You honesty cannot be leave any review or user review completely

it's just. A fact. But if you read enough of threads about individual devices you can get a idea of how they might sound to. You.

Made to this all sites need revenue so how can we bash a product. I have been locked out of a few threads for being honest. It becomes what's the point of you cannot speak freely

[wgscott]

You honesty cannot be leave any review or user review completely

it's just. A fact. But if you read enough of threads about individual devices you can get a idea of how they might sound to. You.

Made to this all sites need revenue so how can we bash a product. I have been locked out of a few threads for being honest. It becomes what's the point of you cannot speak freely

 

It. Is hard to; Argue with that kind. Uf diction.

[ginetto61]

Hi i am just curious to know which kind of source was used for the comparison and which digital connection (spdif, usb, aes/ebu ... etc.). Thanks a lot. gino

[bmoura]

Here is a big claim. The audio world is extremely complex and more about individuals

Not what is better. I have very hi end systems in excess of 500K. And not sound good as I define it. Yes clean and clear but not for me. To say there is any golden device is not something I can claim with. System and individual prove to be far better than just decides. How ever there is devices that can be better than some.

 

There are some very expensive DACs - and systems out there. But there are also some reasonable ones. Check the Sony HAP-Z1ES music server/DAC. $300 less than the Schiit DAC being mentioned here - and it adds hard disc storage, DSD 128 playback, hardware upsampling, etc. Certainly worth considering in the $2,500 and under DAC market.