Article: Sonore Signature Series Rendu Review

[ted_b]

Barrows, thanks for that. I know more than a couple folks who have heard both, and the sq differnces are enough that if you are anywhere close to the budget stretching justification, go for it!

[Distinctive]

I hope that someone with an AudioByte Hydra-Z can compare its sound quality with the Sonore (both on I2s) feeding the DirectStream. I have the Hydra-z in my possession (feeding the DS).

[shahed99]

One interesting observation from the review. Chris didn't hear any improvement using signature rendu vs Devialet AIR streaming. This implies how good sound quality the Devialet AIR streaming has. Devialet must be an amazing value - you get SOTA integrate amp and dac with streaming as good as signature rendu, aurender w20 and any caps server.

[JohnSwenson]

As Barrows mentioned the output board in the signature was an all out attempt at getting the lowest noise, lowest jitter output we know how to do.

 

The S/PDIF output circuit is very unusual producing a significantly cleaner, lower jitter signal that is carefully impedance matched for driving a 75 ohm coax. Everything on the PCB is impedance controlled (both outputs) to radically cut down on reflections .

 

The I2S output uses an LVDS transmitter that has an order of magnitude lower jitter than what is found in other LVDS I2S outputs. This is critical for I2S since the master clock is sent over the interface.

 

All this is supplied by a highly optimized power network on the board which in conjunction with the main power supply in the chassis produces very low noise to each part, letting them achieve the low jitter performance they are capable of.

 

None of this changes the functionality, it just produces extremely low noise, extremely low jitter outputs.

 

I also consult for Simple Design/Sonore.

 

John S.

[Superdad]

I also consult for Simple Design/Sonore.

 

Uh, John, are you sure Jesus is okay with you coming out about that? I've been keeping that secret for you two for almost two years, and with the Signature Rendu release/review I've been grinning like the cat that ate the canary!

Obviously I've been very public about our close association, but to-date Sonore has desired to keep theirs quiet. But that other awesome project is still a secret, right?

 

Anyway, Chris' terrific review of the Signature Rendu comes as no surprise at all to me. John's circuits and topology for the S/PDIF and I2S outputs are absolutely unique and state-of-the-art, and Jesus did not constrain him in any way when it came to the parts (great clocks, isolators, and regulators are not cheap and really add up).

 

As to the overall price, I can also point out (hopefully without upsetting Jesus) that the Ethernet input/DLNA renderer module Sonore incorporates into the Rendu (both models) costs them over $400 (even at sizable quantity, and that's from a 2012 OEM price schedule I have). So based on my guess at total bill-of-materials alone, the Sonore Signature Series Rendu is very fairly priced for a pinnacle product of its function.

 

Congratulations to Sonore (and now I guess I can say to John as well) on the first of many great reviews. Think you have got another winner!

 

Best,

 

--Alex C.

[Distinctive]

I cannot see what IP John Swenson disclosed in his thread?

[tranz]

Uh, John, are you sure Jesus is okay with you coming out about that? I've been keeping that secret for you two for almost two years, and with the Signature Rendu release/review I've been grinning like the cat that ate the canary!

Obviously I've been very public about our close association, but to-date Sonore has desired to keep theirs quiet. But that other awesome project is still a secret, right?

 

Anyway, Chris' terrific review of the Signature Rendu comes as no surprise at all to me. John's circuits and topology for the S/PDIF and I2S outputs are absolutely unique and state-of-the-art, and Jesus did not constrain him in any way when it came to the parts (great clocks, isolators, and regulators are not cheap and really add up).

 

As to the overall price, I can also point out (hopefully without upsetting Jesus) that the Ethernet input/DLNA renderer module Sonore incorporates into the Rendu (both models) costs them over $400 (even at sizable quantity, and that's from a 2012 OEM price schedule I have). So based on my guess at total bill-of-materials alone, the Sonore Signature Series Rendu is very fairly priced for a pinnacle product of its function.

 

Congratulations to Sonore (and now I guess I can say to John as well) on the first of many great reviews. Think you have got another winner!

 

Best,

 

--Alex C.

 

All this news makes the Rendu even more enticing. Is it the ABC PCB Ebel board that was used by chance?

 

So that is how you knew that if we use the I2S output from the Rendu, we will bypass any SPDIF conversion, which is great.

 

Now if only there was an option where we could use the master clock of the DAC to grab the I2S stream in balanced fashion like MSB's I2S pro and a LAN output made for this MSB connection I would be well chuffed.

 

Cheers

[alcarp]

All this talk about the low jitter performance of the Signature Rendu puzzles me. Why should it matter when connected to a Directstream which doesn't take its clock from the source anyway?

[vortecjr]

johann - LMS will not be supported except as a standard DLNA/UPNP server. The Rendu series is not based on SqueezeLite and therefore will not show up as a selectable output in LMS.

 

rodrigaj / esimms86 - We didn't want existing customers to feel compelled to upgrade to the Signature Series Rendu after spending good money on the standard Rendu so we offered most of them an alternate solution.

 

MikeJazz - The Signature Series Rendu is a small production run based on demand and it's really hard to justify investing in a CE rating.

 

tranz - Ideally you want a BNC connector for SPDIF and a digital cable rated for 75 ohm. Some devices can be modified to BNC, but a good digital cable with the correct connectors on both ends is fine. We offer our customers custom cables from Cardas as needed with the proper connectors.

 

palpatine242 - Send me an email.

 

kunarx - We do all we can with the Sonic Orbiter design in that price point. We had Sonore USB Music Server with dual power supply that approached 5K. However, when we shifted gears to the Rendu series all that fell by the way side.

 

DanRubin - The Rendu's focus is strictly on playback of locally stored content. If and when streaming services become available we will do what we can to offer it. However, no purchase of a Rendu should be made anticipating support for streaming services.

 

mtan002 - Your not factoring in all the other costs associated with using a USB converter. Computer, software, USB cable, upgrade output card, upgrade power supply. Chances are a standard Rendu is less money and less headaches.

 

Distinctive - It's going to be really hard to compare these things because they are very different approaches. With a USB device the computer, software, USB cable and a bunch of other stuff can all get in the way of the sound.

 

Jesus R

[vortecjr]

Alex - You crack me up. There is no conspiracy here...I only asked John and you not to discuss secret projects:) I don't want to discuss secret projects or tease about them here because they are to far off the reservation to even be considered products at this time. That said, we are not working on a third generation Rendu so Signature Series Rendu customers have nothing to worry about.

 

trans - Been there and done that and it's not worth the trouble trying to interface with that system. Have MSB give you a BCN input connector (if you don't have one already) and use the SPDIF output on the Rendu. That combination supports PCM and DSD/DoP and I promise you won't regret it.

 

Jesus R

[jtwrace]

I'm still trying to figure out how this product could even help me.

[Superdad]

Alex - You crack me up. There is no conspiracy here...I only asked John and you not to discuss secret projects:) I don't want to discuss secret projects or tease about them here because they are to far off the reservation to even be considered products at this time.

 

My sincere apologies Jesus. I certainly did not mean to imply any conspiracy. I just was always under the impression--from my phone conversations with you--that you preferred it not be disclosed that you are a client of his. And today he seemed to be letting that cat out of the bag, which surprised be.

Given my desire--for the 10 years I have known John--to see him receive the respect and recognition his extraordinary mind and talents deserve, I have always been proud of the projects and modules he has completed, whether for me or anyone else.

 

And of course I respect confidentiality and won't reveal secret projects--certainly not those of other clients. As it is, I feel like I've already gotten into enough warm water by sharing advanced info on my own pending products with John. I really should take Jason Stoddard's (Schiit Audio) advice and STFU about future stuff.

 

Anyway, you know I am a fan of all you are doing at Sonore. And I'm thrilled that John has managed to find a nice balance between our respective projects. Hopefully, if we monopolize all his time, then Sonore and UpTone will continue to reap the rewards of his greatest inspirations (compensating him nicely in the process).

 

Sorry to all for the off-topic. Back to the awesome Sonore Signature Rendu!!

[esimms86]

It would be a no brainer to lend one to REShaman and have him report on his experience with the SSR and his Wyred4Sound DAC 2 DSDse (with it's I2S input option).

 

Jason, the SSR sounds like it could work exceedingly well with the Auralic Vega going S/PDIF BNC out to the Vega's S/PDIF BNC in. Of course, it would then make the Aries superfluous in your system unless you wanted to move the Aries to your second system. You'd also have to commit to jriver or some other DLNA compliant software.

[Superdad]

I'm still trying to figure out how this product could even help me.

 

Well in your system Jason, it would replace your Aries as the DLNA renderer on your network, and would then feed your Vega via S/PDIF. Whether or not that would be an SQ improvement has a lot to with the quality of of the Vega's USB input versus being driven by the first-rate S/PDIF from the Rendu.

That is how it would fit into your system anyway. Too bad the Vega does not have an I2S input. Then the Signature Rendu would most certainly be a musical step up.

[jtwrace]

Well in your system Jason, it would replace your Aries as the DLNA renderer on your network, and would then feed your Vega via S/PDIF. Whether or not that would be an SQ improvement has a lot to with the quality of of the Vega's USB input versus being driven by the first-rate S/PDIF from the Rendu.

That is how it would fit into your system anyway. Too bad the Vega does not have an I2S input. Then the Signature Rendu would most certainly be a musical step up.

 

Well, get back to work on the Regen! Lets go!!!

[craighartley]

Well in your system Jason, it would replace your Aries as the DLNA renderer on your network, and would then feed your Vega via S/PDIF. Whether or not that would be an SQ improvement has a lot to with the quality of of the Vega's USB input versus being driven by the first-rate S/PDIF from the Rendu.

That is how it would fit into your system anyway. Too bad the Vega does not have an I2S input. Then the Signature Rendu would most certainly be a musical step up.

 

Jesus,

Can you use the hdmi i2s into a dac with RJ45 i2s input? Is there a suitable cable?

Craig

[Distinctive]

Jesus,

Can you use the hdmi i2s into a dac with RJ45 i2s input? Is there a suitable cable?

Craig

The RJ45 one is probably not PS Audio standard used in the Rendu.

[wisnon]

Well, get back to work on the Regen! Lets go!!!

 

+1

[tranz]

...

 

trans - Been there and done that and it's not worth the trouble trying to interface with that system. Have MSB give you a BCN input connector (if you don't have one already) and use the SPDIF output on the Rendu. That combination supports PCM and DSD/DoP and I promise you won't regret it.

 

Jesus R

 

Thanks Jesus. I have heard the benefit of bypassing SPDIF conversion, so that is my next goal. I guess that ted_b found the I2S output better sounding as well.

 

Cheers

[vortecjr]

alcarp - Master clock and jitter immunity aside these two units are connected to each other and there are still three other signals in the i2s pipe line that are use by the DS.

 

esimms86 - I would be open to sending Richard a unit to try. I'll PM him and see if he is open to a demo.

 

craighartley - I emailed your DAC manufacturer out of curiosity even though it appears to be a different format. There is a simple yet expensive (for a one off) way to support your DAC with the standard Rendu. However, I can't promise it at the moment.

 

Jesus R

[craighartley]

 

craighartley - I emailed your DAC manufacturer out of curiosity even though it appears to be a different format. There is a simple yet expensive (for a one off) way to support your DAC with the standard Rendu. However, I can't promise it at the moment.

 

Jesus R

 

Thanks for going to that trouble.

[alcarp]

alcarp - Master clock and jitter immunity aside these two units are connected to each other and there are still three other signals in the i2s pipe line that are use by the DS.

........

 

Jesus R

 

Thanks Jesus. Can you elaborate on what these signals are?

[vortecjr]

Thanks Jesus. Can you elaborate on what these signals are?

 

The LVDS i2s output on the Rendu series is made up of a bit clock, word clock, serial data, and master clock. Not all devices use the master clock. For example, the Raleigh Audio RAKK DAC and the PSA PWD MKI and MKII utilize the Rendu's master clock while the PSA DS DAC and the W4S DAC-2 do not use the Rendu's master clock. LVDS stands for Low Voltage Differential Signal and it's a balanced transmission method for sending TTL level i2s over a cable to a DAC. TTL stand for Transistor-Transistor Logic. Here is the Phillips Semiconductor - i2s Bus Specification https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/BreakoutBoards/I2SBUS.pdf. I'm not sure if it's the latest and the specification does not cover LVDS i2s transmission.

 

Jesus R

[Account Closed]

Jesus, You mentioned earlier that there is no support for streaming services yet, only local file playback. Would streaming services (like Tidal and Qobuz) work if the serving computer was running JRiver and the streaming service was run thru the JRiver sound engine via the new JRiver MC 20 WDM Driver and then to the Rendu from JRiver.Won't the Rendu see JRiver as an output option no matter where JRiver is getting the data. Am I missing something else going on here? Thanks, Bob

[ted_b]

JRiver says that currently their WDM driver does not work over DLNA (i.e when using JRIver as the DLNA server).