Article: Pono or Oh No - An Interview With Neil Young

[Jud]

As every label and service attempting reissues in the past has found out--and as we listeners have experienced from the end product--there are tons of variables and obstacles. To name a few:

 

*Negotiating with the label or artist for rights to the material;

 

*Tracking down/obtaining/verifying source tapes of the best quality (This can be particularly problematic if the goal is to release hi-res because while the original multi-track masters may be high-rate, the 2-channel mix-downs might not be as high or the label may only have access to the downsampled-for-CD files.);

 

*In the case of source material on analog tape, the model, heads, alignment, and electronics of the tape deck used for transcribing, as well as the A/D converter and all involved skills and associated electronics will have an impact on the final product. (Will there be a PONO studio and Steve Hoffman-caliber guy on staff overseeing production?)

 

 

So far as I have read, NY and Co. have only said they will attempt to obtain the best source material. It is unclear if that means just whatever the highest-res files the label sends them, or if it will involve any extraordinary efforts to produce albums from material closest to the masters.

 

Taking a larger view, I personally am hoping that PONO will not just become a source for hi-res reissues. I don't think that is what the world or the movement towards high quality downloads needs at all! What we need is for EVERY new and existing artist release to be offered at full-res (even just Redbook would be fine with me). A few hundred or even a few thousand titles is not going to put much of a dent in the universe of access/awareness of quality music files. PONO will certainly raise some awareness--as it already has a little with national press coverage--but my biggest hope/dream is that it somehow prompts Apple to flip the switch in a year or two to offering all iTunes users the choice between downloading its current AAC or choosing FLAC for a quarter or a couple bucks more (per track or album respectively).

 

I feel the issues of provenance and newer material are extremely important.

 

Re provenance, HDTracks took the position (not without some equivocation about quality assurance) that they were simply passing along what the labels gave them. This may make it easier to deal with the labels (and to be fair to HDTracks, they really lack the market share or reputational weight in the industry to enforce any desire for verified provenance on the labels), but it has turned a lot of folks who could be their biggest fans into hesitant customers of the "once burned twice shy" variety. I believe I remember reading, perhaps in FAQs released by Pono, that just like the ordinary consumer Pono can run Audacity or other software to detect upsampling, etc. That sort of step to verify provenance so the customer has confidence in a purchase would be I think a huge advancement over what's available in the market now.

 

Re newer material, to a certain extent we're our own worst enemies, since we keep buying all the versions of the old stuff we say we're sick of. (Despite that, if a 24/192 Beatles collection became available tomorrow, I couldn't get there fast enough. Love at 24/96 is pretty amazing in places.) I hope Neil Young's reputation with other artists and the public can begin to move the hi res market toward new(er?) releases, e.g., if Springsteen likes Pono, maybe Springsteen does his next release on Pono as well as CD and iTunes. (OK, so Springsteen isn't the very newest artist around. Has Pharrell heard Pono? Do Li'l Wayne, Young Jeezy and Daddy Yankee have signature models yet?)

 

I'm hoping really hard that what we get is more than just more of what we've got.

[REShaman]

Ulogin, maybe I'm missing your point, but why wouldn't it be fine to judge a musical passage based on feeling?

 

Maybe his point is other and that three seconds of feeling with a hearing loss is not persuasive. But feeling for me is as essential as hearing. In fact I do not discern one without the other. Some handicap individuals use feeling to hear. Perhaps the sun-modalities of what one hears when there is loss is augmented by feelings that confirm something of a comparable equivalence. Frankly, My hearing is excellent and three seconds is enough for me.

 

I am listening to Kind Of Blue, Flamenco Sketches Alt Take with my modded Dac-2 DSDse with Femto Grade Clock and after some 20+ hours! could hear a difference instantly. But then I am not seeking anyone's approbation. I know what I know what I feel. I mean what I say. I do as I say. I do not doubt that Neil Young has many ways of perceiving what is excellent.

 

Enjoy the music,

Richard

[Paul R]

I ordered one, but with great trepidation. Even more so after reading Chris' interview. I was a little stunned to read where NY didn't know what HDTracks was. I got the strongest feeling that NY felt he was starting the computer music revolution, instead of diving into a well populated ocean. It was a little disturbing to pick up those impressions.

 

Honestly, if he isn't on this site, I wonder how much of the computer music revolution, and consequently, how competent an understanding of the field NY really has. Obviously, the man knows studio music and production very very well.

 

But will a $400 player really take the world by storm? Especially one that strikes me as being somewhat - eh - no other word for it - ugly? The iPod was drop deal gorgeous technology in it's day. The Pono resembles one of those three sided pencil protecters we used in elementary school.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am hoping it succeeds like wildfire. But I am also disappointed in the homework, or rather the lack of homework, that was done about the player, the store, and more.

 

-Paul

[azteca x]

I ordered one, but with great trepidation. Even more so after reading Chris' interview. I was a little stunned to read where NY didn't know what HDTracks was. I got the strongest feeling that NY felt he was starting the computer music revolution, instead of diving into a well populated ocean. It was a little disturbing to pick up those impressions.

 

Honestly, if he isn't on this site, I wonder how much of the computer music revolution, and consequently, how competent an understanding of the field NY really has. Obviously, the man knows studio music and production very very well.

 

But will a $400 player really take the world by storm? Especially one that strikes me as being somewhat - eh - no other word for it - ugly? The iPod was drop deal gorgeous technology in it's day. The Pono resembles one of those three sided pencil protecters we used in elementary school.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am hoping it succeeds like wildfire. But I am also disappointed in the homework, or rather the lack of homework, that was done about the player, the store, and more.

 

-Paul

 

Well said, Paul. The fact that it seems impossible to fit in a pants pocket really doesn't help. I walked around on my lunch break today with my iPod in my jeans pocket, then later in my shirt pocket. It fits in an exercise armband. A portable designed for stationary use....hm. Charlie at Ayre obviously knows his stuff [understatement] and Neil might be speaking in such sweeping terms for marketing purposes, as the folks he's targeting are aware of iTunes and streaming services and maybe Bandcamp. But if he truly doesn't know, I hope to the dread god Sonorus that the folks building the web store did a SWOT analysis.

[audiojim]

I found the pono purpose a bit confusing because the way it is talked about seems to meld together the hardware player, and music software, and, as ny discussed it, the underlying mastering. So, if I finally get it , it seems:

 

1) for those of us interested in seeing a greater proliferation of hi quality recordings and hi res formats for sale, this is great news because it is generating more artist interest in the topic, and may end up broadening the public purchase market; but obviously the jury is out on how much new hi res material we will see

 

2) the player itself is much less important because consumers may end up using a different player , apple or whoever might put out a better , cooler player etc.

 

3) but I wonder - for casual listeners who are gravitating in large numbers to steaming music, is this going to be relevant ? I.e. Is it possible , anytime soon, to get streaming hi res music ? (I know little about streaming , so excuse my ignorance, but I do know that just about every casual , non audiophile listener I know below age 30 , and many even older, listen to ALL their music via pandora, you tube, spotifly, etc . I don't think there is any way pono will turn these people back to non streaming sources.

[wappinghigh]

1) Agree. yep more interest from artists and recording studios is paramount

2) Agree

3) Trend for this is already happening with higher rez (subscription based rather than free) offerings from the likes of Pandora etc..

[wappinghigh]

You've no idea what popped up in my browser when I typed in "pono.com"

 

Who came up with this stupid name anyway?

 

What were they thinking during that "light bulb" moment?

[wappinghigh]

Yeah.. Well said Paul +2

[christopher3393]

You've no idea what popped up in my browser when I typed in "pono.com"

 

Who came up with this stupid name anyway?

 

What were they thinking during that "light bulb" moment?

 

Just want to say that I really like the name and have since Neil first announced it. Not looking to argue, just my impression.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just want to say that I really like the name and have since Neil first announced it. Not looking to argue, just my impression.

It's growing on me.

[labjr]

Better than Napster!

[wappinghigh]

^ haha Chris.. "Growing on me" LOL!

 

Yes.. Let's bring a bit of a sense of humour back into all talk of Pono..

 

Love Neil, Luv his work.

 

Who cares if it fails.

 

At least he himself is passionate about it....

 

Cheers

[realhifi]

Wonder what all those artists are listening to in the car. Has this been posted? Love to hear the cuts.

[labjr]

Wonder what all those artists are listening to in the car. Has this been posted? Love to hear the cuts.

 

Probably Justin Bieber and Miley Cyrus.

[realhifi]

In fact it would make sense for them to have a few free downloads on their site. If indeed the files can be played without the Pono player it would stand to reason that we want to HEAR THEM. Waiting until October to even hear a sample of the amazing quality of Pono is one long wait in today's fast moving marketplace.

[realhifi]

Probably Justin Bieber and Miley Cyrus.

 

Ooooo. I'm in.

[DRB]

I'm totally pro-PONO--floats all boats, good for music/audio, everyone, etc.--and I backed the campaign. But there is one aspect the Mr. Young keeps talking about that has me baffled. To quote from Chris' interview:

 

"Producers will now be able to use resolution as an effect. It can be super clear if you want that. Or, it can be dull if you don't want that. Even within one recording you can go from low res to high res. You can use it as a tool. You can use it creatively. You can turn it on and off. The whole recording will have to be presented at it's highest resolution. But if the chorus and the hook are at 192, and the rest of the song is at 44.1 or 48, something compatible, then it's mixed at 192. The source was low res, the chorus was super high res, some of the vocals are really high res, some are dull. It's a new way to play. A whole new thing. That kind of creativity in the studio is possibly a new tool for the hip hop and rap community."

 

AND: "...(The Black Keys -CC), Yeah, they are great. They use a lot of compression in their mixing. They record at like 48. I've noticed what they do. They'll have more to play with. They can still have that sound and have it be a 192 master with just like one area of the song, maybe the hook, or one instrument be 192, just fucking, what the hell is that! The mix is made up of these two things (sample rates). You get source stuff that is 48k, it's not going to be higher than 48k unless you put acoustic echo on it and that echo will be at 192k. Using resolution as an effect is one of the offshoots of Pono. That's one of the creative tools that people like the Black Keys, Kanye West, Eminem, Jay Z, LIl' Wayne, can use."

 

 

Huh? I understand and hear the sonic differences between various bit-depths and sample-rates pretty well (frankly I feel most of the advantage to high-sample rates is that it lessens how much they typical DAC's digital filter can screw with the presentation--wider bandwidth is not the plus), so NY's notion of using various sample rates as a creative tool seems bizarre to me. I truly doubt that anyone will notice the difference if a 24/192 tune has certain instruments tracked at 24/48 and others at 24/96 or 24/192.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am a proponent of high-res and getting closer to the master tape (more like master hard drive these days right?), but variations of sample rate really don't change tonal color, and whatever differences in sense of attic, etc. are going to be pretty subtle.

 

Anybody care to comment on this?

 

 

They should just release a product that was recorded digitally at the exact same rate that it was tracked at and just keep it one level for the high res version and then do the iTunes version for those that don't really care, and then charge a small nominal fee for the high res version. one of the reasons why SADC failed was lack of content and the higher price of the players and content. That's why high res digital files will not do very well unless they drop the price. We have to have a lot bigger storage to handle high res files. But the masses in general really aren't going to pay double for the same content. FLAC is used because they don't pay any licensing. It's going to be interesting to see what happens when Sony starts releasing their DSD files since they OWN a great deal of content and there is a growing number of DACs that can do both PCM and DSD and the PCM can play DSD that's converted over. I personally don't like the shape of the Pono, it doesn't fit well in the pocket like an iPod or iPhone, or other mobile devices. As far as Young's comments that you mentioned, I think it was kind of ridiculous using resolution as an "effect". I think his past mind altered days are catching up to him.

[flatmap]

As far as Young's comments that you mentioned, I think it was kind of ridiculous using resolution as an "effect". I think his past mind altered days are catching up to him.

If I'm not mistaken, I think he was referring to dynamic range compression.

[Superdad]

If I'm not mistaken, I think he was referring to dynamic range compression.

 

Don't think so. Reread the quote above from Chris' interview with Neil Young. He is talking about using sample rate changes for creative purposes.

[flatmap]

Don't think so. Reread the quote above from Chris' interview with Neil Young. He is talking about using sample rate changes for creative purposes.

Well the question from Chris was about the Loudness Wars & dynamic range compression. But... the answer does wander a bit from there. :-)

[Captain]

Where can i find the music files? Can they be used on my stereo set?

On the ponowebsite the shop seems absent.

[flatmap]

Where can i find the music files? Can they be used on my stereo set?

On the ponowebsite the shop seems absent.

 

No product or music store available until October 2014 at the earliest. They are building it now, and this is typical of the way a kickstarter campaign works.