Your objective / subjective ratio - Where lies your audiophile threshold?

[Jud]

Sorry I did not vote in the poll - I need a "Y axis," I think! Sometimes for some components I like to rely on objective criteria, other times and other components, more subjective. I think both are very helpful in finding what sounds good to me.

 

What isn't important? Anything that is tremendously out of place in the system. For example:

 

- A USB/SPDIF converter or cable that is more expensive than the component it connects.

 

- Speakers over $10,000 with an mp3 player as a front end.

 

- A car audio system more expensive than the car it's in.

[mayhem13]

Sorry Pete.....here goes

 

1. Cables- if they're correct spec and not damaged, that's all that's needed.

2. Software players-leave my music alone please....if I need DSP or EQ, I'll add it myself instead of a fixed algorithm

3. HiRes or above Redbook- I believe what people hear is the improved mastering and not the bit rate/depth

4. SSD or other than HDD for SQ. I am a fan of SSD, but not because it sounds better....it doesn't

5. DSD over PCM. The LAST thing audioland needs is another format.

[new_media]

Never mind, just reread the OP.

[Paul R]

Hey Peter, the more I look at it, the more I think it is not an average, and any meaning one might draw from it is obscured.

 

A suggestion: Create a detailed hypothetical situation involving a system or piece of gear, and try again with reference only to your hypothetical situation.

 

-Paul

 

Hi Allan,

 

While I understand your post, I believe that, at least at some times, an objective view takes over, even though one might me quite subjective oriented. I just ask CA-members to choose the closest match to get an idea of where they stand. Like I pointed out before, it is not a hard number, but an average.

 

Kind regards,

Peter

[crisnee]

I sooo much wanted to vote Peter, but you didn't have my percentage. I'm sooooo upset, I went and voted in another poll just to get some satisfaction.

 

Chris

 

P.S. Actually I think this subjective/objective could use something, I just don't think it's this kind of poll. I've been trying to come up with a good way of discussing the value of either (in terms of discussion) but haven't yet.

[thesurfingalien]

Hey Peter, the more I look at it, the more I think it is not an average, and any meaning one might draw from it is obscured.

 

A suggestion: Create a detailed hypothetical situation involving a system or piece of gear, and try again with reference only to your hypothetical situation.

 

-Paul

 

Hi Paul,

 

Thanks for the input! However, I think that you are making too much of it; this poll is not to be taken too serious. It is more a "how you see yourself" poll. Some people can identify with that, others may find it more difficult.

 

I was actually hoping I would get more "threshold-lists"

 

Kind regards,

Peter

[Speedskater]

By "subjective" do we mean the type of listening tests that Sean Olive of Harman often writes about in his blog and his papers?

Audio Musings by Sean Olive

 

Or do we mean a person who puts on a hat labeled "subjective" and then writes that this sounds good and that sounds bad.

 

A "subjective" finding should be every bit as scientific as a set of measurements.

 

And a "subjective" finding should be repeatable and reproducible.

[acg]

Ok. I went 50/50 because of the system synergy thingamy and the differences that I have heard with component swaps (clocks, capacitors etc.) in equipment. I don't know if my ratio is particularly accurate because I certainly rely on equipment with a solid technical objective base and because I like to have a reason why things can change, but in the end if I like what I hear I am happy.

 

In order of unnecessary things:

1. DSD - waste of time (that's my strong opinion).
   
2. Forum junkies that are sure they know everything, and post in condescending and patronising tones. Let's face it, nobody knows everything that is going on in digital audio, so guys, have some humility!
   
3. Stupid ridiculous crazy prices for things. I know it's Consumerism101 but it still gives me the irrits for some reason (mainly that I don't have $50k to drop on a dac or $100k on amp - hahaha - mmmmm - that says more about me I suppose)
   

 

Anthony

[nemick]

I voted 75% subjectivist.

 

When I have the means or interest to attempt an upgrade, I first identify the component I would like to upgrade. At this point I look to see what options exist in my chosen category of component. Next is as much reading and/or research as is reasonably possible to find reviews or user comments of an item.

 

I use this procedure to at least narrow down the potential items. I consider both subjective and objective reviews and/or comments to reach this point. I then locate a vendor where I can audition components and make my final decision based upon my perception of what improvements I may or may not hear. I have neither the necessary technical equipment or time to perform any objective analysis of potential purchases so I go with what I do have, my perception. Sometimes I have made mistakes purchasing like this but for the most part I have been and remained happy with the choices I have made.

[esldude]

I chose 75% objective/25% subjective.

 

Clearly, the huge majority of listening is just that listening. While doing that for musical enjoyment, over different systems or conditions or at friend's houses etc you will hear things subjectively different. I then usually check them out. Often doing so objectively is the clearest, and quickest way to investigate. More than many might believe here, I find a genuine reason for things sounding different. Most often when I don't find an equipment related reason, it comes down to simple things like not level matching or varying noise levels in conditions the listening was done. Repeat listening once those are handled often shows no consistent difference.

 

I do think Peter's question of 5 things that can't matter a bit odd. I also initially thought he wanted the list of things that did matter the most. I will skip this part, because it seems every year I see more and more surely useless tweak ideas introduced which simply cannot have an effect. I think IC's don't matter, but how does that rank with some of the garbage perpetrated based upon quantum mumbo jumbo. I just would have too hard a time picking 5.

 

I will, contrary to directions, list my opinion of the most important that do matter:

 

1. Room, room, room.....just to be clear the room you listen in.

 

2. Speakers they are the most colored part of your system.

 

3. The recording you listen to. Maybe it should be number one even. Badly recorded music just won't sound good. Well done music need not have fantastic playback to be enjoyable.

 

4. Room treatment and if possible digital room correction. Terrible rooms cannot be made great, but can be made clearly better than no treatment or signal correction.

 

5. An amplifier which matches your speaker's needs.

 

These 5 areas have differences bigger than other parts of the reproduction chain (order of magnitude or more). It is somewhat unbalanced to spend big money elsewhere when these are so important about final sound quality at your ears. Not to say other things cannot matter or be better rather than worse. Just that other areas perform so well for modest money these 5 are where extra money/effort can make the biggest difference.

[PopPop]

I voted 75% subjective. When I'm inclined to spend money on an upgrade I don't start by looking at exotic or controversial technology that can only be appreciated in the tenth decimal point. I'm so close to the bottom that there are plenty of opportunities that are readily apparent by listening. And, since I don't have anything for test equipment I can't really make any objective measurements. I have to rely in part on the reputation and observations of others. I think that many of the conclusions made by objective measure are correct for the gear being tested by not necessarily applicable to every system and every listener. But mostly, I understand how the listening enviroment plays a big part in the experience of music and so I have to question how much money I want to spend on distilling out that last 5% of the sound, when it might be negated by the amount of moisture and humidity that's being retained by the acoustic tile in my cieling.

[gmgraves]

I am about 2/3 subjective and about 1/3 objective. Sound is the most important thing, and for the most part, is enough in and of itself. Where the objectivity comes in, with me, is where claims have been made about an improvement supposedly wrought by some "magic" equipment change that simply is not possible (like 1-2 meter audio interconnects or <10 meters of adequately (>14 AWG) sized speaker cable or any mains cable). Then I become very objective!

[sandyk]

Where the objectivity comes in, with me, is where claims have been made about an improvement supposedly wrought by some "magic" equipment change that simply is not possible (like 1-2 meter audio interconnects or <10 meters of adequately (>14 AWG) sized speaker cable or any mains cable). Then I become very objective!

 

That's when many claim you become very wrong too ( grin )

[Allan F]

Hi Allan,

 

While I understand your post, I believe that, at least at some times, an objective view takes over, even though one might me quite subjective oriented. I just ask CA-members to choose the closest match to get an idea of where they stand. Like I pointed out before, it is not a hard number, but an average.

 

Kind regards,

Peter

 

Peter, I understand that this type of hypothetical poll may be of interest to you and others. Unfortunately, to me it is meaningless and serves no purpose. Please forgive me for my lack of curiosity.

[thesurfingalien]

Peter, I understand that this type of hypothetical poll may be of interest to you and others. Unfortunately, to me it is meaningless and serves no purpose. Please forgive me for my lack of curiosity.

 

Hi Allan,

 

That is fine Allan... Your opinion is as valuable to me as any other's.

 

Kind regards,

Peter