exaSound e18 - e20 - e28 - Info and Experiences Post All Here

[Bunpei]

I wonder why an ASIO method over Ethernet is not popular. Isn't a data transfer over TCP/IP or UDP/IP more universal and robust? I like the connection because it can easily provide a galvanic isolation.

[Audio_ELF]

I wonder why an ASIO method over Ethernet is not popular. Isn't a data transfer over TCP/IP or UDP/IP more universal and robust? I like the connection because it can easily provide a galvanic isolation.

Because then it would NOT be ASIO.

 

ASIO is a trademark of Steinberg who provide a method for bypassing Windows or Mac OS X built in audio subsystems.

 

Eloise

[Miska]

I wonder why an ASIO method over Ethernet is not popular. Isn't a data transfer over TCP/IP or UDP/IP more universal and robust? I like the connection because it can easily provide a galvanic isolation.

 

There are already pro-audio interfaces that offer ASIO driver for their converters using ethernet transport. So nothing is preventing that. I could also easily make ASIO driver for my NAA and I can easily put NAA inside a DAC.

 

ASIO only specifies how application and driver talk to each other. What ever happens behind the driver is completely out of ASIO scope. So it gives complete technical freedom to choose whatever technologies one wants use behind the driver.

[Superdad]

Miska, Stereolab, and Eloise:

 

My personal interest in ASIO implementations for OS X is as follows:

 

a) I'd like to see Theyscon or an independent developer write an ASIO driver for the very popular XMOS chip. This would allow the many DAC manufacturers--as well as those offering USB>I2S boards for DIY--who use XMOS for their async-USB inputs, to offer a standard ASIO driver for their product.

 

b) I think the benefits of ASIO for OS X go beyond just allowing DSD without DoP. I think the SQ of USB DACs connected to Macs would improve even for PCM.

 

 

I say the above (b)) based on a recent test I performed between Audirvana Plus (1.5.10) and HQ Player OS X desktop (3.4 beta 6). Conditions were carefully controlled (i7 Mac mini with LPS and linear fan controller, heavily slimmed Mavericks booted from SD card, tracks in RAM disk, etc.), and both players set to "bit-perfect" output (i.e. all SRC, dithering, etc. turned off). Since I use an NOS PCM1704K DAC (multiple choke-filtered supplies, discrete output stage) as my reference, I used only 88.2KHz and above tracks for the test.

 

Damien's Direct Mode and other internal tricks to bypass as much of Core Audio as possible were clearly audible in that A+ was more transparent to the source than HQP was. (And this makes some sense since Miska only recently acquiesced to making a CoreAudio 'desktop' version of HQ Player--it previously required his NAA. Damien has been doing battle with Core Audio for several years.)

 

Yet when I run Miska's NAA (with a custom, highly-optimized Linux image he provided me) on the very same i7 Mac mini (now being fed from another i7 mini running HQP desktop across the room), the result is reversed, with HQP/NAA being as or slightly more transparent that A+.

(As an aside, my dogged pursuit of getting the NAA running on my mini was prompted by the above in that I immediately fell in love with Miska's Poly-sinc filters over my finely-tuned iZotope filter with A+, but was bothered by the "veil" I heard over everything with the desktop version. So now I am in Nirvana with NAA and Poly-sinc-short!)

 

 

So anyway, while you folks have been arguing about who benefits from ASIO, mostly with a focus on the DAC maker. But I think the OS X s/w player developers would really benefit if more DACs supported ASIO.

I admit that my logic is more conjecture than fact.

I think I already posed this question to Miska with regards his listening with the exaSound DAC: Since HQP OS X player supports ASIO, and exaSound is about the only DAC offering ASIO for OS X at this time, what differences does he here when switching back and forth between Core Audio and ASIO in HQP? I want to with regards to PCM as well a DSD. With DSD there is obvious overhead benefit to ASIO by not having to use DoP, but straight PCM may benefit too.

If others here--this is the exaSound owner's thread after all--are using HQ Player 3.4, please do compare ASIO to CoreAudio and let us know what you hear. Those results may give strong credence to the argument for broader OS X ASIO implementations.

 

Thanks,

Alex C.

[kennyb123]

Damien's Direct Mode and other internal tricks to bypass as much of Core Audio as possible were clearly audible in that A+ was more transparent to the source than HQP was. (And this makes some sense since Miska only recently acquiesced to making a CoreAudio 'desktop' version of HQ Player--it previously required his NAA. Damien has been doing battle with Core Audio for several years.)

 

This was my impression also when comparing two different apps using Core Audio (HQ Player and JRMC) to A+. It was clearly audible that A+ was more transparent. Should ASIO take off on the Mac, I suspect it will level the playing field, giving us more options to chose from as far as apps go.

[jaffar]

Does anyone know how much delay the e22 introduces with its USB interface and FIFO/buffering?

My question is not about audio/video sync, but playing virtual instruments/MIDI keyboard.

 

My PCI sound card has 4 ms delay which is good, but I suspect the e22 may have much longer delay and reliable playing will be impossible...

[wadeh911]

Hello Roch,

 

I will try to explain our approach. There are three problems with computer-based high-end audio that affect sound fidelity:

 

1. Computer s are not good for producing accurate timing. Computer clock beats are irregular and jittery.
   
2. Computers generate huge noise caused by bad power supplies and digital switching.
   
3. Computer sound systems, including the standard drivers, are not created for high-end audio. They are created for multipurpose use and quality is sacrificed for versatility, compatibility and easiness of use.
   

 

The bottom line is that computers and DACs can produce spectacular sound. These days high-resolution recordings are produced with computers, and there is no reason why they may sound better when downgraded by recording on physical analogue media.

 

 

Best,

 

George Klissarov

 

Considering the purchase of your e28 to replace my Oppo 105 which feeds MCH analog to my Classe SSP-800. I use Jriver with Jremote to push my music from my upstairs server to my downstairs MCH system. Therein lies my problem, by choice my server in one room and the e28 in another room, thus I use my network instead of asynchronous usb.

 

Having built many htpc's since the early days, and experimenting with asynchronous USB compared to network quality between the server and the DAC, the network method is indistinguishable IMO.

 

From a technical and quality perspective, what makes using the network not an option in your DAC's?

[bmoura]

From a technical and quality perspective, what makes using the network not an option in your DAC's?

 

You can certainly use a network with the e28. That's how I am playing Multichannel and Stereo DSD and PCM downloads here.

[wadeh911]

You can certainly use a network with the e28. That's how I am playing Multichannel and Stereo DSD and PCM downloads here.

 

looking at at their website and no Ethernet connection on rear panel. What am I missing?

[bmoura]

looking at at their website and no Ethernet connection on rear panel. What am I missing?

 

Well, there is a computer (in my case a laptop) between the network stored music files (on a NAS) and the e28.

[wadeh911]

Well, there is a computer (in my case a laptop) between the network stored music files (on a NAS) and the e28.

 

you had me all excited there for a minute. Your setup is not an Ethernet network connection on the e28. But maybe George is offering a type of network bridge like the folks at ps audio and oppo. Just hoping....

[bmoura]

you had me all excited there for a minute. Your setup is not an Ethernet network connection on the e28. But maybe George is offering a type of network bridge like the folks at ps audio and oppo. Just hoping....

 

The e28 is still a fine product - even without a bridge like the one from PS Audio.

 

However, since none of the Bridges or Music Server products out there support Multichannel Downloads playback, that might be an interesting product area for exaSound to explore for future release. They certainly have the expertise to do it (Multichannel DSD & PCM, ASIO drivers, Quad DSD, etc....)!

[wadeh911]

The e28 is still a fine product - even without a bridge like the one from PS Audio.

 

However, since none of the Bridges or Music Server products out there support Multichannel Downloads playback, that might be an interesting product area for exaSound to explore for future release. They certainly have the expertise to do it (Multichannel DSD & PCM, ASIO drivers, Quad DSD, etc....)!

 

Not looking for the e28 to be able to itself download the 2CH or MCH files, but for the e28 to have an Ethernet network connection in addition to, or in lieu of, the asynchronous USB connection. My Oppo BDP-105 supports both 2CH and MCH file playback thru its Ethernet network connection including DSD64 and most other lossless formats. So that's at least one music server product that supports multichannel playback via Ethernet from a file server.

[exa]

The e28 is still a fine product - even without a bridge like the one from PS Audio.

 

However, since none of the Bridges or Music Server products out there support Multichannel Downloads playback, that might be an interesting product area for exaSound to explore for future release. They certainly have the expertise to do it (Multichannel DSD & PCM, ASIO drivers, Quad DSD, etc....)!

 

A network bridge in one form or another is a very appealing idea. exaSound is about to release Linux drivers. We've made the first beta-release available to third-party developers. The next beta-release is scheduled for the end of September.

[wadeh911]

A network bridge in one form or another is a very appealing idea. exaSound is about to release Linux drivers. We've made the first beta-release available to third-party developers. The next beta-release is scheduled for the end of September.

 

How does releasing Linux drivers, guessing for the PC/Server to the Asynchronous USB connection the e28, move exaSound forward with an Ethernet network bridge? Does it seem the best near term solution is a designed for high quality audio outboard network bridge (running Linux) with ethernet input and USB output?

[esimms86]

Is there anyone using the exasound e28 via analog ins to a Smyth Realiser to listen to multichannel recordings via headphones? I know that the Realiser ' s built in DAC is a limitation but I would bet that it still sounds amazing.

 

Esau

[bmoura]

Is there anyone using the exasound e28 via analog ins to a Smyth Realiser to listen to multichannel recordings via headphones? I know that the Realiser ' s built in DAC is a limitation but I would bet that it still sounds amazing.

 

Esau

 

Well, you could bring in the 8 Channels of audio into the Smyth Realiser via the analog inputs. Can't say I've tried that yet with my e28. It's in the main Home Theater/Audio Room connected to a 5.1 speaker setup for full Multichannel & Stereo listening. Fun!

[bmoura]

A network bridge in one form or another is a very appealing idea. exaSound is about to release Linux drivers. We've made the first beta-release available to third-party developers. The next beta-release is scheduled for the end of September.

 

Yes - and I think exaSound would be the company to do it since you have already tackled QuadDSD, ASIO Drivers and Multichannel.

 

The other bridge and server solutions out there are Stereo only. Only the Oppo disc player hints at what is possible.

[wadeh911]

A network bridge in one form or another is a very appealing idea. exaSound is about to release Linux drivers. We've made the first beta-release available to third-party developers. The next beta-release is scheduled for the end of September.

 

George please put me down for an e28 with network bridge. Suggest you start a Kickstarter campaign to accelerate development and I will contribute. This would be a way better investment than PONO. Although I am a computer nerd, I'm a bigger audio nut. Sitting in my listening room I want to enjoy my music from the very best components I can afford, with my iPad and JRemote on my lap to choose what I want to listen to from my upstairs i7-980 Extreme Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit Server running JRiver and all my other audio software. That means no USB or SPDIF or Coax will do. Everything I read and research says LAN is not technology limited for connecting ultra high resolution audio devices.

[bmoura]

George please put me down for an e28 with network bridge. Suggest you start a Kickstarter campaign to accelerate development and I will contribute. This would be a way better investment than PONO. Although I am a computer nerd, I'm a bigger audio nut. Sitting in my listening room I want to enjoy my music from the very best components I can afford, with my iPad and JRemote on my lap to choose what I want to listen to from my upstairs i7-980 Extreme Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit Server running JRiver and all my other audio software. That means no USB or SPDIF or Coax will do. Everything I read and research says LAN is not technology limited for connecting ultra high resolution audio devices.

 

A Kickstarter campaign for a Multichannel & Stereo DSD256 Bridge. Hmm, interesting idea!

[LewinskiH01]

OK, I pulled the trigger on a e22 and I should have it end of next week. Can't wait!

I'm fully expecting it to trounce my Audiophilleo + Metrum Octave, which are 2 years old and added up to $2k vs. new technology and $3.5k. I hope it does.

 

I'm also very interested to compare it's ability to drive an amp compared to my preamp.

 

In reality I have an agenda what I'm really, really, super interested is in using an e28 to implement digital crossovers and drive different amps thru the e28 enable running a fully active system. So the e22 will serve as proxy for the e28 sound signature, volume control and to test results with digital room correction.

 

BTW, anybody happens to have listened to an e22 and an e28 in a two channel setup? I wonder how their sound compares.

[Stereolab42]

Nice, I'm sure you'll love it.

 

I've ordered a Teddy Pardo power supply for my e22. Probably not necessary but for 1/10th of the unit's price why not give it a go.

[bmoura]

Nice, I'm sure you'll love it.

 

I've ordered a Teddy Pardo power supply for my e22. Probably not necessary but for 1/10th of the unit's price why not give it a go.

 

I picked up a Paul Haynes power supply here with my e28 after reading Ted's review of the unit. I found it added some nice low end detail to playback. A good investment.

[astrotoy]

I picked up a Paul Haynes power supply here with my e28 after reading Ted's review of the unit. I found it added some nice low end detail to playback. A good investment.

 

Which one did you get? Thanks, Larry

[bmoura]

Which one did you get? Thanks, Larry

 

Paul Haynes SR3-12