EuroDriver Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Speaking of the HQ Player, haven't seen any information on how to configure it with the exaSound. Any tips you can offer? I am away from my Exasound system for a couple of weeks so I can only give you the settings I use, no tips on the initial set up, and ASIO driver selection For PCM to DSD256, drop down boxes from left to right [Polysinc] [DSD7] [1128800 for 44.1 KHz sample rate family, 1288000 for 96 KHz sample rate family] [sDM] Polysinc gives the highest sound quality, but it does take a long time to set up, about 2 minutes 10 seconds on my Quadcore i5 running at 3.2 GHz. CPU load is about 45 pct Polysinc-2s filter is much faster to set up and has a lower CPU load. When my CPU was running at 2.4 GHz, it could handle Polysinc -2s, but not Polysinc For DSD playback you have to go to the [File] menu and click on [DSD / DSIFF settings] and a dialog box will open. There are so many options, and I only did a quick and dirty comparison [ ] DirectSDM [ ] 6 dB gain conversion type. Noise Filter [poly-mp ] [fast-lin] Integrator [FIR ] Volume Control As I am presently only playing carefully recorded classical through HQ Player, I have my min and max volume set at 0dB so the volume control on the top right of the screen is non functional. I use the Exasound.exe window to adjust the volume, which it seems to do perfectly (better than the HQP volume control which I thought I could hear) Confession I always drag and drop a folder on to the bottom window to load the files, I am not able to load files from trees set up in the library :-( I don't know how to clear the files from the bottom Window, I just kill the program and restart HQ Player Summary Despite the waiting times, and the difficulty I have navigating, I am absolutely addicted to the sound quality, it's so pristine and realistic Caveat My hearing sensitivity of sine waves has dropped from 12 k 10 years ago, to just 9k today, but I can still detect the detrimental SQ effect when I turn the chassis cooling fan on ! Sound Test, Monaco Consultant to Sound Galleries Monaco, and Taiko Audio Holland e-mail [email protected] Link to comment
exa Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 The development of ASIO support for the Decibel player is near completion. A free trial version of Decibel can be downloaded here - Decibel from Feisty Dog. Please let us know if you have any suggestions or if you have experienced any issues. Decibel is the first audiophile-grade music player to support the exaSound ASIO expansions for Mac OS X. ASIO is a straightforward and efficient way of supporting DSD without the overhead and instability of DoP. The advantages of native DSD playback with ASIO are most evident with high sampling rates like DSD256. exaSound.com Link to comment
gumby Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I have an interesting experience related to playback of MCH PCM files on the e28 and an OPPO 105.The e28 is connected to the MCH analog inputs on my receiver and I am bypassing the digital signal processing (DSP) features of the receiver (ie analog bypass).The OPPO is connected via HDMI and set to output PCM from SACD disks.My receiver does not decode DSD. I am acquiring MCH downloads from various sources.Most are DSD.A few (four) are PCM.Three of those are from one label.Two of these albums played fine on the e28.However, one had no sound in the right surround channel, but did have an Lfe program, which can easily be determined with the e28’s volume control utility that reports PCM levels. I am told the SMPTE/ITU standard for SACD is (from 1 to 6) is: L,R,C,Lfe,Ls,Rs.I also understand that there are many other formats used.The following are all I could find about this in the time I had.This confirms a discussion I have had with Bruce Brown here in Seattle about this. http://www.surroundassociates.com/tapeprep.html. http://protools.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Change-Film-Format-to-SMPTE-or-DTS-when-Exporting-Selected-Region/27443-3779. The label confirmed there was no Lfe for this title.The label has also confirmed the channel assignments (from 1 to 5) as: L, R, C, Ls, Rs.They say they are following SMPTE/ITU but the Lfe is dropped because it is not used. So, I suspect, but have no way of knowing, that when an Lfe channel is absent their software (SADIE it appears) the surround program channels get move “up” to channels 4 and 5 in a logical sequence.In then ends up matching the channel format for one of these other formats. I am told that the Pyramix and Sonoma workstations used for authoring DSD/SACD can omit an Lfe channel (Channel 4) and still assign the surround program to channels 5 and 6. I put the files on a flash drive and played them through the USB input of the OPPO.They played correctly.As we all know the OPPO can also play DSD files through the USB input, including 5.0 files (no Lfe.) So, I have tentatively concluded that: Whether intentional or not, at least this one title is being supplied in an alternate audio format. The OPPO sees these PCM files and routes them to the first 5 available channels, which just happen to be correct. When using the USB input the OPPO sees DSD files and recognizes they are SACD and must remap the channel assignments automatically for output over HDMI. If you think about it, it has to do this to be able play both formats. Any label providing MCH downloads using PCM authoring tools may have to add a blank channel 4 to its 5.0 PCM products to be usable on the e28. The label has generously offered to do this for me, even though it hard for me to say it is their problem because I do have a way to play the files. If they added filler for Channel 4 as a standard practice, this might make their products unplayable on the OPPO if the OPPO would still see this as an alternate format an route the other channels to the wrong speakers. exaSound would need to add a feature recognizing alternate (or alternative) PCM formats and remap the channels or allow the user to do this manually. JRiver (or whatever software you like) would need to be able to recognize the format and remap channels….unless it already can I have failed to implement this feature. A real head scratcher. Link to comment
Kal Rubinson Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Gumby- Right from the beginning, I assumed you were using jRMC and I bet you have it set for "Source Number of Channels." The solution is to set it to "5.1." Make sure you also have it set to "No upmixing or downmixing." Kal Rubinson Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile Link to comment
gumby Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Gumby-Right from the beginning, I assumed you were using jRMC and I bet you have it set for "Source Number of Channels." The solution is to set it to "5.1." Make sure you also have it set to "No upmixing or downmixing." Well, I guess I should have said something earlier. I saw that setting and thought there is no way that could be it...but it appears to work. I have tried PCM with and without Lfe, DSD without Lfe and it all seems fine. Thanks... Link to comment
Kal Rubinson Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Well, I guess I should have said something earlier. I saw that setting and thought there is no way that could be it...but it appears to work. I have tried PCM with and without Lfe, DSD without Lfe and it all seems fine. As I said, I had the same issue with the e28 and got the same solution from George at exaSound and Matt at JRMC. At first, it bothered me but now it seems to make real sense. Kal Rubinson Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile Link to comment
gumby Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 As I said, I had the same issue with the e28 and got the same solution from George at exaSound and Matt at JRMC. At first, it bothered me but now it seems to make real sense. Well, now I don't feel so bad. It seemed there just had to be a software solution. I did not follow that instinct because the first 3 PCM titles were fine and everything had been working so well....and frankly I do not really enjoy computers. Also, the whole thing had me wondering if I could tell by listening whether I could hear if the LFE, C, and two surround programs were being routed correctly. Tom Caufield explained what to listen for and he was spot on. Thanks again. Link to comment
gumby Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Following up on my MCH PCM File Experience. I obtained a BSO MCH recording and they put a filler in Channel 4 (Lfe Channel) for a total of 6 channels. See attached screenshot of the first track. I have also attached a screenshot of the title that had only 5 channels. The left and right surrounds are in Channels 4 & 5. JRiver needs to be set as described by Kal in post 404 to play the 5 channel file correctly. The BSO with 6 channels worked fine with Channels set to either "Source No. of Channels" or "5.1 channels." The OPPO played both of these correctly through its USB input. It is interesting that it knows what to do without being told. So, the logic for JRiver's 5.1 channel setting, and the OPPO for that matter, must be "if there is only 5 channels, the missing channel must be the Lfe channel. Therefore route channels 4 and 5 to channels 5 & 6 of the DAC." Link to comment
Kal Rubinson Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 The OPPO played both of these correctly through its USB input. It is interesting that it knows what to do without being told. Agreed but, on the other hand, the Oppo has no way to custom route the channels if you want something different. So, the logic for JRiver's 5.1 channel setting, and the OPPO for that matter, must be "if there is only 5 channels, the missing channel must be the Lfe channel. Therefore route channels 4 and 5 to channels 5 & 6 of the DAC."It is logical. Also, it is logical that if you use "some channels as source," it will output them as channels 1-5. ;-) Kal Rubinson Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile Link to comment
exa Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 There are many different ways to use an 8-channel DAC. Channel mapping can be different with different players, for example Apple Audio MIDI setup supports Quad, Surround and Rear Surround configurations. Foobar channel assignment is can be controlled with third-party plug-ins and it is completely customizable. We've seen applications where the LFE channel is repeated on channel 7 and 8 for use with three subwoofers. Some users duplicate channel 1 an 2 on channels 7 and 8 for use as a second stereo zone. Multichannel DACs are also used with digital crossover and room correction software. In these scenarios three or four channel are used for the Left channel and the rest are assigned to the Right Channel. Channel assignment is typically handled by the player software. It would be confusing to duplicate this functionality in the DAC. exaSound.com Link to comment
LewinskiH01 Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Multichannel DACs are also used with digital crossover and room correction software. In these scenarios three or four channel are used for the Left channel and the rest are assigned to the Right Channel. Channel assignment is typically handled by the player software. It would be confusing to duplicate this functionality in the DAC. Exactly the way I intend to use a multichannel DAC. And for this, users like me wanting to use the e28 would really benefit from an analog input in it. As it stands, the e28 looks fantastic for playback but a real uphill battle for measuring properly and setting time delays between channels (to make for a time-aligned system). Any chance you incorporate such good news for an MkII, or a new option we can purchase new units with? PLEAAAASE??? :) Link to comment
Miska Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Exactly the way I intend to use a multichannel DAC. And for this, users like me wanting to use the e28 would really benefit from an analog input in it. As it stands, the e28 looks fantastic for playback but a real uphill battle for measuring properly and setting time delays between channels (to make for a time-aligned system). At least on HQPlayer you set time delays by setting distance of each speaker in centimeters from the listening position. So it shouldn't be difficult to do... Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers Link to comment
Stereolab42 Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Well I just placed an order for an e20. Hopefully this time will be the charm. I seem blessed by the ability to find faults and annoying behaviors in DACs that bother nobody else! Link to comment
Stereolab42 Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Well I just placed an order for an e20. Hopefully this time will be the charm. I seem blessed by the ability to find faults and annoying behaviors in DACs that bother nobody else! Got the e20... so far so good. About as click-free as I could hope for (although not 100% free, but nothing is bothersome... my OCDness in this area led to the demise of my previous DACs.) This is a laser-focused audiophile device, as it supports only ASIO and doesn't have analog inputs. But that's fine with me, it fits into my setup perfectly. SQ is of course outstanding, no complaints there. Listened a bit with the straight headphone output, then the balanced output into my Woo Audio WA22 (which is heart-stoppingly, holographically good... I am a hardcore tube convert now.) High-rate DSD is spectacular. If I don't run into any issues over the next week I'll probably spring for another e20 or an e22. In summary, for the PC audiophile who wants true high-res DSD, I think this is absolutely the best choice on the market. And it's safe to say that I've experienced almost all of the other choices available. Link to comment
mikel Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Got the e20... so far so good. About as click-free as I could hope for (although not 100% free, but nothing is bothersome... my OCDness in this area led to the demise of my previous DACs.) This is a laser-focused audiophile device, as it supports only ASIO and doesn't have analog inputs. But that's fine with me, it fits into my setup perfectly. SQ is of course outstanding, no complaints there. Listened a bit with the straight headphone output, then the balanced output into my Woo Audio WA22 (which is heart-stoppingly, holographically good... I am a hardcore tube convert now.) High-rate DSD is spectacular. If I don't run into any issues over the next week I'll probably spring for another e20 or an e22. In summary, for the PC audiophile who wants true high-res DSD, I think this is absolutely the best choice on the market. And it's safe to say that I've experienced almost all of the other choices available. I would be very curious to get some reviews on the e22. I currently own a Mytek Stereo 192 DAC and I really wonder how the Mytek would compare to the e22. But since there are no distributors in Europe, just ordering one is kind of expensive in case it goes back. Link to comment
bmoura Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Got the e20... so far so good. High-rate DSD is spectacular. If I don't run into any issues over the next week I'll probably spring for another e20 or an e22. In summary, for the PC audiophile who wants true high-res DSD, I think this is absolutely the best choice on the market. And it's safe to say that I've experienced almost all of the other choices available. A two ExaSound setup? Wow! You might want to consider an e28 for the second one. Then you will be ready to play Multichannel DSD as well! Link to comment
elcorso Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Got the e20... so far so good. About as click-free as I could hope for (although not 100% free, but nothing is bothersome... my OCDness in this area led to the demise of my previous DACs.) ................... On a Mac (ASIO Mac driver) and last Decibel version it's click-free. Roch Link to comment
bmoura Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 On a Mac (ASIO Mac driver) and last Decibel version it's click-free. Roch I'm wondering if Decibel's work with exaSound will encourage some of the other Mac player app vendors to adopt the new ASIO Mac driver as well. Link to comment
elcorso Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 I'm wondering if Decibel's work with exaSound will encourage some of the other Mac player app vendors to adopt the new ASIO Mac driver as well. +1 This is my hope...! Roch Link to comment
Stereolab42 Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 On a Mac (ASIO Mac driver) and last Decibel version it's click-free. Roch I am really being picky. When I say "clicks" I'm only referring to some medium-volume clicks that occur sometimes when pausing/starting playback of very high-resolution files. There are no turn-on pops, sleep/wakeup pops, or delayed pops/clicks, things that plagued almost all my previous "high-end" DACs. George says it doesn't get any better than this given the limitations of the ESS chipset (without playing around with parameters that would degrade overall SQ). And I'm inclined to believe him, since all of the other design choices in this unit are ones I would have made myself. (Custom ASIO driver with buffering in the unit, presumably with error correction, to negate the effects of jitter or data loss in the USB cable -- very cool.) A two ExaSound setup? Wow! You might want to consider an e28 for the second one. Then you will be ready to play Multichannel DSD as well! It would be for a separate location, actually. I only need two channels, but in two different places. Link to comment
elf Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 I would be very curious to get some reviews on the e22.I currently own a Mytek Stereo 192 DAC and I really wonder how the Mytek would compare to the e22. But since there are no distributors in Europe, just ordering one is kind of expensive in case it goes back. There is one in the UK: Sound Setup - JansZen and exaSound high quality home audio products |Sound Setup – JansZen and exaSound high quality home audio products Link to comment
Stereolab42 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 e22 is now on order. e20 will move to the office and the e22 will reign supreme at home. Hopefully these will tide me over under DSD8192 comes up out five years. (I'm only half-joking.) I would do an A/B but I don't think it would be that useful for others since apparently I was lucky enough to get an e20 that has the same upgraded clock as in the e22 (I think it was part of a test production run). Link to comment
mikel Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Hi Stereolab I still would be interested about any feedback on the E22 once it arrives. Please keep us posted. Michael Link to comment
johndoe21ro Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I'm curious too about a comparison between the E20 and the E22, Stereolab. Triangle Magellan Concerto 2 < AQ Everest < Vitus Audio SS-010 Mk2 < AQ Dragon High Current < AQ WEL XLR < Chord Qutest DAC w UpTone JS-2 & AQ Dragon Source < AQ Diamond USB < Innuos Phoenix USB w AQ Dragon Source < Aurender N100H & AQ Dragon Source < NetGear GS105GE Switch w UpTone LPS1.2 < Supra CAT8 Ethernet < Gryphon PowerZone w AQ NRG-Wild < Stillpoints UltraSS, Ansuz Darkz D-TC & D2, Omicron Harmonic Stabilizer, Gold Evolution SE & Classic < Furutech FT-SWS (R) < Synergistic Research Orange Quantum Fuse < Solid Tech Hybrid < GigaWatt G-16A 2P Circuit Breaker Link to comment
Hiro Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I'm wondering if Decibel's work with exaSound will encourage some of the other Mac player app vendors to adopt the new ASIO Mac driver as well. Considering that this native DSD player for Mac sells for *only* $33, it stands to reason that the development cost of this feature is not high, and therefore it's only a matter of time when other developers implement it in their music apps. The benefits of ASIO DSD over DoP are obvious and widely known. Link to comment
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