exaSound e18 - e20 - e28 - Info and Experiences Post All Here

[matthias]

Unless you want to hear DSD and PCM in Multichannel as well as Stereo. Then 8-channel IS the point!

 

Yes, but the higher the number of channels, the higher the advantage for ASIO over DoP.

 

Matt

[Miska]

I pleaded with Meitner through 2012 and 2013 on the issue (they have ASIO drivers but not compatible with DSD) and they said they have tons of other things to do before they'd justify spending time and resources on writing an ASIO driver, especially when DoP was working fine. I would think this is the business case for many of these folks.

 

Well, I'll put it this way... Let's say software player license costs average 100€. Software player has at least 1000 times more code than ASIO driver. So following the same logic people are ready to pay for software player licenses, ASIO driver would increase cost of the DAC by 0.1€. I think nobody would have issue paying such extra price, or even 10x whopping 1€ premium?

 

But other than that, ASIO is functionally so much more flexible than DoP. If you'd like to support 8 channels of DSD512 with DoP, you would need 8 channels of PCM at 1.5 MHz. Now what if your DAC doesn't really support PCM at those rates, only DSD? How would player or user know that those PCM rates are only supposed to be used for DSD? You would also end up transferring 47 megabytes per second of data instead of 23 megabytes per second.

 

Or if we look at DACs that support up to 384/32 PCM and DSD256. They would need to claim to support 705.6/768k PCM, but again, how would player or OS X know that it really doesn't mean that the DAC could accept PCM in that format, but something completely different instead?

 

There are no such problems with ASIO at all. No DoP overhead. And available PCM and DSD sampling rates are completely independent from each other. And player can actually ask the driver if the DAC supports DSD or not. Plus you can actually have a DAC that doesn't support PCM at all, only DSD. And computer wouldn't even accidentally try to send PCM there.

 

How about recording with PCM/DSD ADC? When you record, the recording software is not sending anything out, but it is receiving instead. How it would tell the DAC which one to send, PCM or DSD?

 

Another option is to make OS itself natively support both PCM and DSD, like Linux now does.

[bmoura]

Yes, but the higher the number of channels, the higher the advantage for ASIO over DoP.

 

Matt

 

True. That's why I'm using ASIO with my exaSound e28 DAC, JRiver and Windows 8.1 - for Stereo and Multichannel download playback!

[matthias]

True. That's why I'm using ASIO with my exaSound e28 DAC, JRiver and Windows 8.1 - for Stereo and Multichannel download playback!

 

You are lucky.......

[ted_b]

True. That's why I'm using ASIO with my exaSound e28 DAC, JRiver and Windows 8.1 - for Stereo and Multichannel download playback!

 

As am I. I'm trying not to be seen as the bad guy here. I just see that most DAC mfg'ers will not be willing to do ASIO development (until, as George so succinctly put it, DoP has run out of room...i.e no support above 384k) when, at 64fs there is little reported wrong with DoP.

 

But you guys are opening my eyes to the fact that DSD256 and above is non-DoP territory. Thanks...my bad.

[bmoura]

As am I. I'm trying not to be seen as the bad guy here. I just see that most DAC mfg'ers will not be willing to do ASIO development (until, as George so succinctly put it, DoP has run out of room...i.e no support above 384k) when, at 64fs there is little reported wrong with DoP.

 

But you guys are opening my eyes to the fact that DSD256 and above is non-DoP territory. Thanks...my bad.

 

An interesting point. It's worth noting that iFi now has an ASIO driver for their iDSD Nano DAC that supports Stereo playback up to DSD256. And that DAC is only $189. So it can be done by companies other than exaSound.

 

As Ted suggests, if there is more customer requests for ASIO and/or more interest in double and quad rate DSD, ASIO drivers from more DAC makers are likely to follow.

 

Until then, good to be an exaSound owner!

[jhwalker]

An interesting point. It's worth noting that iFi now has an ASIO driver for their iDSD Nano DAC that supports Stereo playback up to DSD256. And that DAC is only $189. So it can be done by companies other than exaSound.

 

As Ted suggests, if there is more customer requests for ASIO and/or more interest in double and quad rate DSD, ASIO drivers from more DAC makers are likely to follow.

 

Until then, good to be an exaSound owner!

 

The iFi driver is only for Windows, though, at this time.

[bmoura]

The iFi driver is only for Windows, though, at this time.

 

True. The exaSound team are the pioneers when it comes to ASIO on the Mac.

[Sam Lord]

There should be a lot of coders familiar with ASIO on the pro side, so one hopes that getting the driver creation could be farmed out. Or perhaps Exasound could license its version much like Wavelength did with its Asynchronous USB audio software. And Exasound or other ASIO-adept companies could adapt code for other small builders.

[matthias]

I just see that most DAC mfg'ers will not be willing to do ASIO development (until, as George so succinctly put it, DoP has run out of room...i.e no support above 384k) when, at 64fs there is little reported wrong with DoP.

 

Ted,

when the customers see the advantages of ASIO for DSD256 and DSD512 they will put the pressure of competition on the companies. And Miskas comment gives hope:

Well, I'll put it this way... Let's say software player license costs average 100€. Software player has at least 1000 times more code than ASIO driver. So following the same logic people are ready to pay for software player licenses, ASIO driver would increase cost of the DAC by 0.1€. I think nobody would have issue paying such extra price, or even 10x whopping 1€ premium?

So the costs for ASIO are not high and the companies have some experiences with ASIO for Windows. IMO there is a bright future for ASIO for OSX.

 

Matt

[ted_b]

Great point Matt.

[bmoura]

There should be a lot of coders familiar with ASIO on the pro side, so one hopes that getting the driver creation could be farmed out. Or perhaps Exasound could license its version much like Wavelength did with its Asynchronous USB audio software. And Exasound or other ASIO-adept companies could adapt code for other small builders.

 

Writing ASIO drivers for other DAC makers could be a new profit center or side business for exaSound. I know that Andreas Koch of Playback Designs does DAC design for other companies (like Nagra) under his AK Designs business. Maybe George K. at exaSound could start GK Designs. Hmm....

[EuroDriver]

Yesterday we did some careful listening comparing the E20's own volume control with a software volume control of a top player software.

 

the E20's volume control was noticeably more transparent.

 

We don't know the reason for the sound degradation when using the software player's volume control, the reasons could be extra software processing causing more RF, who knows. The bottom line is that the E20 volume control is superb ! Geoff, in his home system, has a Tom Evans Vibe, so Geoff knows how well top flight preamps do volume control.

 

Win 8 > E20 > Hypex NC400 > KEF Blade

 

as I get to know the E20 better, I am getting more and more impressed.

 

Experimenting now with battery power supplies, results not good so far, but not giving up yet

[David Blumenstein]

This year has seen my system go through a good del of upheaval. Gone are the Spendor A3 speakers in favor of Audio Physic Tempo and have become really attached to Silver speaker cables - not solid core, but stranded. I thought this was going to be all for some time, however, as the bulk (96%) of my source material is digital/lossless/hi-res it made sense to explore my DAC options.

 

Last year i acquired a CEntrance DacMini CX and was really happy with it until i was lured by DSD's sirens and latched on to a Fostex HP-A4 to test the waters (it is an excellent USB powered/portable device capable of DSD 64/128) and then I wanted more...much MORE!!!

 

The quest took me down the path of evaluating DACs from M2Tech, Mytek, Wyred4Sound, Auralic and eXaSound ....... when it was all said and done I opted for the eXaSound. It was close between the Auralic and Wyred4Sound, yet at the end of the day the eXaSound e22 ticked all the boxes for me.

 

The e22 sounds glorious, its external power supply lets me travel with it easily (auto voltage switching) and it supports DSD 256.

 

I made it a point not to take demo units from dealers and searched out individual owners to help me in this task. I did not want undue pressure from them in my decision making process. And although dealers will claim to remain neutral and impartial, at the end of the day its a business and they have product to sell. it is paradoxical that dealers/distributors take part in online forum discussions as some NOT all, use online threads/discussions to push, sell and hype products.

 

eXaSound are new kids on the block and I"m fine with that. I now have a great working relationship with their dealer here in the UK and eXaSound's founder and CEO in Canada.

 

I celebrate one full week with the e22 and have been oversampling with HQPlayer Desktop for the Mac. This has been a real education. Redbook 16/44 files sound much fuller and deeper as a result. As my Mac Mini 2011 runs on an i5 processor with 8 GB RAM, I'm limited to oversampling with Poly Sinc 2S, DSD7 to take advantage of DSD 256, so my next upgrade will most probably be the latest and greatest Mac Mini - fastest processor and all the RAM I can throw at it.

 

Lastly, I am controlling the e22 using my Apple Remote and it much smaller than I had imagined. Will have to quiz George (eXaSound's CEO) why they pack the unit in such a large outer box?

[EuroDriver]

An update on my HQ Player PC

 

the i5 3470 chip was setup in BIOS to run at a fixed 2.4 GHz clock by the builder. Resetting the clock speed to "Auto" in the BIOS allows the CPU to speed up to 3.2GHz which gives 45% more processing power for math operations (MOBO Intel DH61DL)

 

the PC can now convert 24/192 FLAC tracks using Polysinc over sampling and DSD 7 Sigma Delta Modulation with out missing a beat, but you have to make sure the CPU is adequately cooled.

 

of course just about the only DAC on the planet that can do justice to this ultimate digital stream is the Exasound

 

to enjoy this level of processing, you do need a transparent system, Hypex NCore NC400 driving KEF Blades, is simply incredible, jaw dropping for me, but as always YMMV

[LewinskiH01]

Hello EuroDriver!

 

Your reply to my HQ Player question on the other thread had me looking further into the exaSound, and here I am!

 

Could you please describe your setup? Your post doesn't seem to align with your signature here. Maybe it's outdated?

 

So HQ Player is running on your i5-based PC. Is that PC going thru LAN to a NAA? Then NAA to exaSound? ExaSound driving the amps directly (no preamp), driving the Blades?

 

BTW, exaSound makes a point on their website about how they buffer the signal inside the DAC so the quality (as in jitter) of the source PC doesn't impact sound. Does this align with your experience? So much effort put into optimizing my server! :-)

[EuroDriver]

Hello EuroDriver!

 

Could you please describe your setup? Your post doesn't seem to align with your signature here. Maybe it's outdated?

 

So HQ Player is running on your i5-based PC. Is that PC going thru LAN to a NAA? Then NAA to exaSound? ExaSound driving the amps directly (no preamp), driving the Blades?

 

BTW, exaSound makes a point on their website about how they buffer the signal inside the DAC so the quality (as in jitter) of the source PC doesn't impact sound. Does this align with your experience? So much effort put into optimizing my server! :-)

 

My Sig is out of date, and I can't figure out where to update it Doh !

 

The i5 with an Intel DH61DL motherboard is playing directly into the Exasound through the onboard USB 2. The E20 has a mini USB socket, and comes with fairly long cable which is what has been exclusively been used.

 

The only experience we have had we the NAA is playing to an OPP 105D. Here the SOTM SMS-100 NAA made a very big difference, but still not in the same class as the Exasound

 

We are waiting for Linux driver, then we can test the NAA. We found with the Grim LS1 active digital speakers, the NAA made no noticeable difference, but not so surprising as the LS1 uses network protocols to transfer the data internally

[ted_b]

My Sig is out of date, and I can't figure out where to update it Doh !

 

 

Settings (top of page, right side, between my profile and log out)

My settings (left hand column)

Edit Signature

[EuroDriver]

Settings (top of page, right side, between my profile and log out)

My settings (left hand column)

Edit Signature

 

Many thanks from a fellow bozo !

[sdolezalek]

I'm curious why the e-28 wouldn't have an HDMI input? Obviously there is a usb input for stereo, but wouldn't most 5.1 or 7.1 disc players output through HDMI? For example how would you connect the digital output of an Oppo BDP-105 if you wanted the Exasound to do the D/A conversion?

[Geoffrey Armstrong]

I'm curious why the e-28 wouldn't have an HDMI input? Obviously there is a usb input for stereo, but wouldn't most 5.1 or 7.1 disc players output through HDMI? For example how would you connect the digital output of an Oppo BDP-105 if you wanted the Exasound to do the D/A conversion?

 

I would say the emphasis on the exasound DACs is Computer Audio. After all here we are on Computer Audiophile discussing them

 

The exasound E28 is not a receiver. If you want to use it for home theatre you could use J River Media Center. I believe J River has all the necessary filters for de-coding the various audio and video formats. The video only would be sent from the computer to your screen via hdmi or an adapter to hdmi or the format accepted by your screen. The audio via USB.

 

I believe there isn't anything a receiver can do that you couldn't do with the combination of a computer, the exasound and a good screen. In fact you have more options with the computer and can probably do it better, though admittedly it is more complex.

 

For pure audio in multi-channel, either downloads or ripped discs can be your source in either DSD or PCM,with the possibility to up-sample all channels to DSD256 or PCM384khz.

[Audio_ELF]

I'm curious why the e-28 wouldn't have an HDMI input? Obviously there is a usb input for stereo, but wouldn't most 5.1 or 7.1 disc players output through HDMI? For example how would you connect the digital output of an Oppo BDP-105 if you wanted the Exasound to do the D/A conversion?

The issue would be that adding a HDMI input would increase the complexity a lot as well as adding the costs of HDMI and HDCP licensing.

 

I believe there isn't anything a receiver can do that you couldn't do with the combination of a computer, the exasound and a good screen. In fact you have more options with the computer and can probably do it better, though admittedly it is more complex.

The one BIG thing you can't do (afaik) is take a signal from an external device such as satellite receiver and decode it to an external DAC (such as the e28). Its great for "internal" sources; but a total non-starter for anything external.

[dennis88]

The one BIG thing you can't do (afaik) is take a signal from an external device such as satellite receiver and decode it to an external DAC (such as the e28). Its great for "internal" sources; but a total non-starter for anything external.

 

Well, I have a satellite receiver connected via SPDIF to an exaSound e20 and it's working fine.

[dennis88]

I'm curious why the e-28 wouldn't have an HDMI input? Obviously there is a usb input for stereo, but wouldn't most 5.1 or 7.1 disc players output through HDMI? For example how would you connect the digital output of an Oppo BDP-105 if you wanted the Exasound to do the D/A conversion?

 

The Oppo BDP-105 has a USB Output. Why not use this?

[Audio_ELF]

Well, I have a satellite receiver connected via SPDIF to an exaSound e20 and it's working fine.

Not for decoding multi-channel (dolby digital, et al) it won't. Unless I'm mistaken the only way to access more than 2 channel on the e28 is via the USB input from a computer.

 

The Oppo BDP-105 has a USB Output. Why not use this?

The Oppo doesn't have a USB output which you can connect to an external DAC. The various USB connections on an Oppo BDP-105 are for connecting to drives for playing back music and video files and a USB input to utilise the Oppo as a DAC.

 

Eloise