Light Harmonic Geek DAC

[barrows]

For balanced, I would much prefer the mini XLR over other connectors, especially TRS with their very high mass.

 

Larry, if you are still monitoring this thread, I am curious as to your final implementation of the ESS DAC in the GEEK:

 

1. I would guess you are using synchronous clocking (disabling the DPLL and ASRC) yes?

 

2. I wonder if you are also leaving the the first 8x OSF "off", to result in less processing

and a sound closer to your NOS ideal? Of course this also lets users play with their

favorite OSF in the computer if they want...

 

I use an ESS 9018 based (DIY) DAC at home, and prefer synchronous clocking (given a low jitter source/masterclock), but I have not tried listening with the OSF off and native rate file playback (maybe I should).

Psyched to get my GEEK when they come available, and thanks!

[Audio_ELF]

3 pin locking DIN used by Naim and DMN

3 pin locking DIN is generally a stereo unbalanced connector rather than mono balanced.

 

Mini-XLR would be the best connector if no space for standard XLR.

 

Eloise

[labjr]

Mini XLR makes the most sense to me. XLR connectors have proven to be one of the most robust audio connectors. They've been used in pro audio and live sound for ages.

[MikeJazz]

I will try to include balance design (maybe) in a different configuration. I like balance design as well.

 

Only one issue for me: Where to find the space in front panel for the balance connectors... any good idea? ;-)

 

Hi Larry Ho.

I am tempted to go for the Geek Pulse (still a couple of questions about it).

 

About balanced, what do you think about the approach by the very respected Jan Meier (lot's of positive feedback in head-fi for his designs).

Check Meier Audio.

 

Apparently most of benefits of balance are get with a simplier configuration...and no need for more real estate on the front panel.

[Panelhead]

3 pin locking DIN is generally a stereo unbalanced connector rather than mono balanced.

 

Mini-XLR would be the best connector if no space for standard XLR.

 

Eloise

 

I guess my DIY gear using locking Deltron plugs and Jacks does not count. The Naim and DNM gear is single ended, but any 3 pin connection can be used for balanced.

The high mass of the TRS was a concern for me too. But sounds just as good as XLR to me. The ability to switch from balanced to single ended by changing cables is great.

Almost every recording you have was made using a bunch of TR and TRS connections. They cannot be degrading the sonics that much.

[junker]

I think they are just considering it a Geek with a linear PS and RCA outs, but let's see how it evolves... The 8 channel ESS Sabre 9018 configured as balanced might be a better chip for this application. And they could pull off 2 Crystek clocks ($80) with an $500 MSRP if they watch the rest of the BOM.

 

They are running a great campaign with lots of momentum so hopefully they'll follow through with their previous design efforts.

 

I was disappointed that the desktop version is not balanced in design....hopefully that will change

[Miska]

I think they are just considering it a Geek with a linear PS and RCA outs, but let's see how it evolves... The 8 channel ESS Sabre 9018 configured as balanced might be a better chip for this application. And they could pull off 2 Crystek clocks ($80) with an $500 MSRP if they watch the rest of the BOM.

 

The usual BOM to MSRP ratio is between 5 and 10, so I don't think two $80 components would fit...

[junker]

The usual BOM to MSRP ratio is between 5 and 10, so I don't think two $80 components would fit...

 

Each clock is $40, so $80 is total so that works on your metric. Not sure what current clocks are being used or what the effective delta would be though.

[Audio_ELF]

I guess my DIY gear using locking Deltron plugs and Jacks does not count. The Naim and DNM gear is single ended, but any 3 pin connection can be used for balanced.

It CAN be used; but it is non-standard (to use 3-pin DIN). DIN connectors are horrid things for soldering anyway and XLR is much better and a much stronger connector.

 

TRS was introduced (iirc) for situations where a larger density of connectors was required than XLR allows for - for example in patchbays and for lesser used connections on mixing desks. The big problem with TRS (in a professional environment) is the way as you pull the connector out things get shorted - worst when you use 2 pole connectors for speaker connections which is not an uncommon use (though totally irrelevant for this discussion).

 

Eloise

[Savage]

I will try to include balance design (maybe) in a different configuration. I like balance design as well.

 

Only one issue for me: Where to find the space in front panel for the balance connectors... any good idea? ;-)

 

Is the case itself a done deal?

You could rotate the whole package 90º so that the faceplate and outputs are on the long side of the rectangle.

[Miska]

I was checking out the site and I wonder what is this "Real 3D Sound"? Some processing? Can all processing be turned off?

 

Three output power steps with hefty price tag difference, what is the hardware level difference between these other than feedback resistor value? $100 for different resistor value to get more output voltage sounds a bit strange.

[Audio_ELF]

Only one issue for me: Where to find the space in front panel for the balance connectors... any good idea? ;-)

Hopefully you'll put the connectors on the rear panel...

[Selarom]

I was checking out the site and I wonder what is this "Real 3D Sound"? Some processing? Can all processing be turned off?

 

Three output power steps with hefty price tag difference, what is the hardware level difference between these other than feedback resistor value? $100 for different resistor value to get more output voltage sounds a bit strange.

 

Hey Miska,

 

Sounds like you are referring to the GEEk Out thats has 3 models differentiated by headphone output power.... But this thread is about the GEEK pulse, a desktop version of the GEEK.

 

The 3D awesomeifier can be turned off for sure. Its a DSP implementation so i believe that it has to be turned off in order to playback >48khzPCM or DSD natively. Otherwise it would be one powerful DSP!!

[lithium1085]

Hopefully you'll put the connectors on the rear panel...

 

Larry might have been talking about the possibility of balanced headphone outs on the front panel....

[labjr]

I think there are a lot of first time DAC users backing the projects with wish lists full of features that don't make sense.

[Miska]

Sounds like you are referring to the GEEk Out thats has 3 models differentiated by headphone output power.... But this thread is about the GEEK pulse, a desktop version of the GEEK.

 

Hmmh, looking at the first post of this thread plus number of other posts including board photos couple of posts back I think I picked right thread from the historical threads (it was on the second listing page). The thread for the new one is here:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/light-harmonic-geek-pulse-dac-campaign-live-17971/

(?)

 

The 3D awesomeifier can be turned off for sure. Its a DSP implementation so i believe that it has to be turned off in order to playback >48khzPCM or DSD natively. Otherwise it would be one powerful DSP!!

 

I couldn't find that documented anywhere on the page, nor the difference between the headphone output power, which sounds also strange in terms of power. 1 W to 300+ ohm would mean more than 18 volts output while 450 mW to 100 ohm is just 6.5 volts.

[lithium1085]

I believe their reported power is into a load of 16 ohms.....they have mentioned it somewhere in there.

Also the details of the 3D feature are a little unclear, apparently they are still tweaking it and it will be different from just a crossfeed( it was mentioned that it will be part analogue and part digital).

[Larry Ho]

Hi Larry Ho.

I am tempted to go for the Geek Pulse (still a couple of questions about it).

 

About balanced, what do you think about the approach by the very respected Jan Meier (lot's of positive feedback in head-fi for his designs).

Check Meier Audio.

 

Apparently most of benefits of balance are get with a simplier configuration...and no need for more real estate on the front panel.

 

Thanks for the information and I agree with him. My own system is also full quad phase balanced as well. The only issue with balanced design is always with the double cost of analog stage with precise matching. We will have a good meeting early next week, discuss all great inputs from you guys. Balance will be the HOT topic.

 

Thanks,

[bmoura]

Thanks for the information and I agree with him. My own system is also full quad phase balanced as well. The only issue with balanced design is always with the double cost of analog stage with precise matching. We will have a good meeting early next week, discuss all great inputs from you guys. Balance will be the HOT topic.

 

Thanks,

 

Yes, balancing the features and costs is tough. Good luck on that.

 

Would like to see LH tackle a Multichannel DSD DAC in a future design.

[Jud]

The 3D awesomeifier can be turned off for sure. Its a DSP implementation so i believe that it has to be turned off in order to playback >48khzPCM or DSD natively. Otherwise it would be one powerful DSP!!

 

I couldn't find that documented anywhere on the page

 

One of the first things I looked for also. The answer is yes; it was, at least at one time, in a list of Q&As on or linked from the Kickstarter project page.

[esimms86]

Yes, balancing the features and costs is tough. Good luck on that.

 

Would like to see LH tackle a Multichannel DSD DAC in a future design.

 

They may need to look at putting balanced design into a future more expensive product, e.g., a Pulse Plus upgrade. Regarding a multichannel DSD, while I'm all for some healthy competition for the exasound e28 I wonder about the size of the market for one such DAC let alone two.

 

There's a huge divide pricewise between the DaVinci and thr Geek products. It would be really exciting to see what they could do at a 2 to 3 thousand USD pricepoint.

 

Esau

[labjr]

There's a huge divide pricewise between the DaVinci and thr Geek products. It would be really exciting to see what they could do at a 2 to 3 thousand USD pricepoint.

 

Esau

 

I agree. I thought they would try something a bit more pricey than the Pulse. But I'll back it. I'd like to see something with a modular approach where we can expand and upgrade with different options like R2R DAC boards etc.

[Savage]

I agree. I thought they would try something a bit more pricey than the Pulse. But I'll back it. I'd like to see something with a modular approach where we can expand and upgrade with different options like R2R DAC boards etc.

 

The two projects they have done are fascinating to watch between the medium/user requests/sales volume. And, I can always use them in the office system or at work for headphones. Keeping my fingers crossed for something in the 2-3K range as well for the main system.

 

It sounds like their next projects will be a continuation of Geek/Pulse line with pre-amp/streamer and possibly amplifier at low costs...perhaps making a quality separates system available for the regular consumers again. I am becoming more convinced that the all in one "mini-system" may have been one of the death nails for home stereo. Nothing upgradable, and if any part dies or needs repair the whole thing usually finds the trash bin and is replaced with the same. No upgrade path - no system building.

[esimms86]

The DaVinci is essentially a cost no object DAC with inherent limitations on how many they can sell. The Geek products are for the "masses," as it were, and if they can the majority of the expectations they have set for themselves they'll be rewarded with runaway sales.

 

I am looking at the Geek Pulse as a natural pairing with a headphone amp. Imagine the Woo Fireflies or the Burson or Sennheiser headphone amps paired with the Pulse.

 

If LH becomes the darling of headphone and other audiophiles they will not need a kickstarter campaign for their future products.

 

Esau

[labjr]

The DaVinci is essentially a cost no object DAC with inherent limitations on how many they can sell. The Geek products are for the "masses," as it were, and if they can the majority of the expectations they have set for themselves they'll be rewarded with runaway sales.

 

I am looking at the Geek Pulse as a natural pairing with a headphone amp. Imagine the Woo Fireflies or the Burson or Sennheiser headphone amps paired with the Pulse.

 

If LH becomes the darling of headphone and other audiophiles they will not need a kickstarter campaign for their future products.

 

Esau

 

I like their crowd-sourced projects at reasonable prices. Especially with engineering talent they have. However, I wonder what their long term goals are? Are the Geek/ Pulse projects just a marketing tool to generate revenue and increase brand recognition? How long do they intend to do this? How well does selling direct at wholesale prices sit with their dealer network?