lithium1085 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Hi everyone, Light Harmonic has just started a kickstarter campaign for a new affordable USB DAC. Early backers can get prices as low as $99 and you can check out further details here. GEEK: A New USB Awesomifier for Headphones by Gavin Fish — Kickstarter Link to comment
Hiro Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Can the USB DAC be connected to a hi-fi, or is it headphone only? Link to comment
lithium1085 Posted August 14, 2013 Author Share Posted August 14, 2013 They say that it can go to active speakers on their FAQ. I am not sure if there is an actual fixed line level output. Gavin has been very responsive to questions on the kickstarter page, maybe he will clarify this soon Link to comment
wgscott Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 It's high definition. Few sound devices found in computers today are able to play high-resolution audio. GEEK can play any current or anticipated audio format. Looks like they are playing it a little loose with the truth. Link to comment
lithium1085 Posted August 14, 2013 Author Share Posted August 14, 2013 I think they are trying to appeal to the broader market with some iffy statements. This probably also explains the abundance of beats in their videos and pictures. Anyway Gavin has been answering questions furiously so I will collate some of the information available right now- -dimensions- 34mm by 65mm. - TI PCM1795 DAC IC -USB asynchronous chip: SMSC USB3343 -native USB 2.0 support will work without loading drivers. For Windows, driver provided. -No over/up-sampling in this DAC - Filtration: Yes, there is a patent-pending 3 layer buffer for noise filtration. - two buttons on the side of the device that control volume up/down, mute, and 3D on/off. P.S- before someone asks I have no affiliation to the company. I have just backed the kickstarter project Link to comment
Savage Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 If nothing else, some of the smarter marketing I have seen in HiFi. Some appeal to a younger generation & entering a market where Audioquest & Meridian have a good foothold. Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not." — Nelson Pass Link to comment
Jud Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 If there's truly no upsampling, I'd like to know how they avoid aliasing and harmonic distortion with Redbook files. Agree with Bill, fast and loose. A pity, since I've heard the Da Vinci sounding great at an audio show. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
rdsu Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Wait and listen! They already proved that they know how to make DACs. I doubt that Light Harmonic will not deliver an amazing product for this price... Even better with this initial price! Link to comment
lithium1085 Posted August 14, 2013 Author Share Posted August 14, 2013 I was thinking that don't delta sigma DACs oversample at the chip itself or is it a feature which can be turned off? Link to comment
Savage Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 More coverage and details from Darko & Audiostream The Light Harmonic GEEK DAC/Headphone amp for $99! | AudioStream Light Harmonic GEEK out on Kickstarter with DSD DAC/head-amp | Digital Audio Review by John Darko Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not." — Nelson Pass Link to comment
Jud Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 Wait and listen! They already proved that they know how to make DACs. I doubt that Light Harmonic will not deliver an amazing product for this price... Even better with this initial price! I am certainly willing to suppose that the product will be a good one. But my guess is that in fact they are not building a DAC that has unavoidable distortion with Redbook input, which is what happens if there is no upsampling at all. What I am guessing is that they are not using ASRC (asynchronous sample rate conversion), a jitter-minimizing technique. Some manufacturers' marketing departments call this "no upsampling," which I dislike because it is not technically correct. That's why I agreed with Bill about the "fast and loose" thing, i.e., marketing-speak. But best to wait and see rather than conjecturing, I suppose. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
rdsu Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 They state Light Harmonic will announces other affordable DACs in 2014... They made a state of art DAC to obtain reputation, and now start do dilevered affordable products to have different clients... Link to comment
wkhanna Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 interesting....... Sort of a backwards Schiit........ Bill Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob ....just an "ON" switch, Please! Link to comment
lithium1085 Posted August 15, 2013 Author Share Posted August 15, 2013 now that reminds me of a south park episode..... Link to comment
Savage Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 This has been a fun project to follow. It's on fire - GEEK: A New USB Awesomifier for Headphones by Gavin Fish :: Kicktraq For the $139.00 my curiosity won out. Unlike Jud, I was finding the NOS to be a feature rather than a drawback but it will be some months before anyone knows. Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not." — Nelson Pass Link to comment
Superdad Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 For the $139.00 my curiosity won out. Unlike Jud, I was finding the NOS to be a feature rather than a drawback but it will be some months before anyone knows. I backed it too (at $99!), but it is absolutely NOT an NOS DAC. The PCM1795 is a sigma-delta DAC chip just like the vast majority of current converters. So while the GEEK may not immediately perform sample rate conversion upon receiving the signal, by the time it leaves the DAC chip you are listening to and interpolated (up/over-sampled) stream and whatever digital filters are offered within the 1795. See here, page 8: http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/pcm1795.pdf Also, Gavin is misquoting what USB processor is being used. He states "USB asynchronous chip: SMSC USB3343," but that is just the USB PHY (physical interface chip), and not the controller. Based on the photos I have seen (none in high res, but I can tell by package size), I suspect they are using one of the popular XMOS controllers. Pretty cool that they hit over $100K in just 3-4 days! UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
lithium1085 Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 Is it possible to tweak a delta sigma design to make it NOS or is that an integral feature of the chip? Link to comment
rdsu Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Superdad, Are you sure that PCM1795 must select the sigma-delta, or is optional? PCM1795 has Advanced Segment architecture, not Sigma-Delta... About USB chip, I will ask Gavin... Link to comment
rdsu Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 GEEK: An overachieving headphone amplifier The prototype case is great! Link to comment
Jud Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Superdad, Are you sure that PCM1795 must select the sigma-delta, or is optional? PCM1795 has Advanced Segment architecture, not Sigma-Delta... About USB chip, I will ask Gavin... Advanced Segment Architecture includes delta-sigma modulator. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Jud Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 This has been a fun project to follow. It's on fire - GEEK: A New USB Awesomifier for Headphones by Gavin Fish :: Kicktraq For the $139.00 my curiosity won out. Unlike Jud, I was finding the NOS to be a feature rather than a drawback but it will be some months before anyone knows. Hey, I backed it too - nothing wrong with a portable DAC that accepts 8x input rates. I'm never fond of marketing-speak (one reason I like the irreverence of the Schiit folks), so yeah, I wasn't necessarily thrilled to see this referred to as an NOS DAC when it likely isn't. But if it is marketing-speak, LH will be neither the first nor last to do it, and anyway, the important thing is how it sounds. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
filhodoassis Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Archimago did a very fine review of the Teac 501 Dac witch is based on TI PCM1795. He tested a NOS available filterless mode. archimago.blogspot.com/2013/05/measurements-teac-ud-501-pcm-performance.html?m=0 Link to comment
Jud Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Archimago did a very fine review of the Teac 501 Dac witch is based on TI PCM1795. He tested a NOS available filterless mode. archimago.blogspot.com/2013/05/measurements-teac-ud-501-pcm-performance.html?m=0 Interesting, so that mode is available from the chip. At least in the TEAC, the result was high frequency roll off starting at 5-6kHz. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Panelhead Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I waste 139.00 on silly stuff. Looking to trying a production model. If it is not so good, someone at my house can plug it into a laptop and play their Beats, Sol Repulics, or Ludicris 'phones into it. George 2012 Mac Mini, i5 - 2.5 GHz, 16 GB RAM. SSD, PM/PV software, Focusrite Clarett 4Pre 4 channel interface. Daysequerra M4.0X Broadcast monitor., My_Ref Evolution rev a , Klipsch La Scala II, Blue Sky Sub 12 Clarett used as ADC for vinyl rips. Corning Optical Thunderbolt cable used to connect computer to 4Pre. Dac fed by iFi iPower and Noise Trapper isolation transformer. Link to comment
rdsu Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Advanced Segment Architecture includes delta-sigma modulator. I know that includes delta-sigma, but that didn't answer my question... You have the option to use it, or is mandatory? Link to comment
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