HQPlayer's Network Audio Adapter

[Kal Rubinson]

Ted, Kal, others: How likely are we to see an increase in solutions like the NADAC that effectively eliminate the whole USB issue and ideally function as both NAA and DAC in one for those of us addicted to HQPlayer?

 

miniDSP showed the prototype of an 8-channel ethernet DAC at CES.

[jabbr]

Miska,

 

can a device like this run networkaudiod?

https://www.solid-run.com/marvell-armada-family/clearfog/

The OS support is: Linux Kernel 3.x, OpenWrt, Yocto

 

The Pro version costs $170, but the soon to be release Base version should be interesting because it does not have as much connectivity, but it still has SFP port, Ethernet, USB and uSD. I think it has I2S too.

 

That looks really great. Looks like it runs linux, so it should either run out of the box, or be hackable to do so. I will get one of the little guys when available, thanks for posting that. I2S or direct DSD out?

[Miska]

If you want just I2S channels out and PCIe is available, then there's this:

I2S Bridge

[jabbr]

If you want just I2S channels out and PCIe is available, then there's this:

I2S Bridge

 

Apparently strictly I2S and not DSD. Also not sure I2S is much better for inter device communications than USB :shrug:

 

I'm looking for a board like the Amanero which can do both I2S and DSD. The FPGAs have programmable IO lines so can do SGMII in the FPGA and using other lines, direct DSD. We might for example output I2S or even PCM over a group of lines and DSD over its own group and use the DSD_EN line to select between.

[bibo01]

That looks really great. Looks like it runs linux, so it should either run out of the box, or be hackable to do so. I will get one of the little guys when available, thanks for posting that. I2S or direct DSD out?

 

So do you think it will be possible to run NAD on it?

I suppose we have to wait for the Base version...

[DWJames]

Ted, Kal, others: How likely are we to see an increase in solutions like the NADAC that effectively eliminate the whole USB issue and ideally function as both NAA and DAC in one for those of us addicted to HQPlayer?

This is why we're trying to get NAA running on a BBB (beaglebone black) with the Botic driver. This can output multi channel I2S pcm and dsd direct out from the BBB gpio pins as well as accepting an external master clock and there are already relatively cheap interface boards like the Twisted Pear Hermes and Cronus which handle isolation and reclocking of the data output as well as I2C control and data display of what's playing.

 

A few of us have been using this BBB Botic solution to output to regular pcm dacs with great results compared to translating to USB and back again. If we can get this working with NAA too (and I feel we're pretty close now) then that would be brilliant

[Miska]

can a device like this run networkaudiod?

https://www.solid-run.com/marvell-armada-family/clearfog/

The OS support is: Linux Kernel 3.x, OpenWrt, Yocto

 

IIRC, the "armhf" one should work fine if you can get Debian Stretch installed on it. The original (non -i) CuBox was based on Marvell SoC and it was a bit of pain to deal with because Linux support wasn't so great.

[bibo01]

IIRC, the "armhf" one should work fine if you can get Debian Stretch installed on it. The original (non -i) CuBox was based on Marvell SoC and it was a bit of pain to deal with because Linux support wasn't so great.

SolidRun has already images for Jessie: https://images.solid-build.xyz/A38X/

 

Hoever, Clearfog is now officially supported by ArchLinux:

http://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv7/marvell/clearfog

 

Furthermore, it has a simple socket – mikroBUS™ – allowing you to integrate a wide range of MikroElektronika click boards™ modular extensions.

[Miska]

Hi Jussi, here's a link to miero's Botic kernel patches;

 

https://github.com/miero/linux-dev

 

I went through the Botic patches and I can see various reasons why this driver is having problems and I don't see how it would easily start working correctly. For example the support for rates above 192k is done in a wrong way that is going to break things and also the DSD support is handling LE and BE formats in the same way without dealing with the different byte order. In addition there's a bug where switch-case statement is missing break; at the end.

 

These things would get pointed out if Miroslav would submit the patches to the alsa-devel mailing list... But he probably knows that.

[jabbr]

SolidRun has already images for Jessie: https://images.solid-build.xyz/A38X/

 

Hoever, Clearfog is now officially supported by ArchLinux:

http://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv7/marvell/clearfog

 

Furthermore, it has a simple socket – mikroBUS™ – allowing you to integrate a wide range of MikroElektronika click boards™ modular extensions.

 

Do any of those boards do anything we are interested in?

 

The ClearFog base version is very promising as a NAA. Fiberoptic in and at least USB out. Hopefully it will do I2S & Direct DSD, in which case it could be huge as an Ethernet interface for a DAC. There are some reasons why an FPGA might still be preferable (better signal clocking) but its possible that Marvel has already implemented the good stuff in a SoC. It might actually be able to do LVDS DSD output through one of its IO channels given a driver. At the very least it will be good to compare the two approaches.

[bibo01]

Do any of those boards do anything we are interested in?

 

The ClearFog base version is very promising as a NAA. Fiberoptic in and at least USB out. Hopefully it will do I2S & Direct DSD, in which case it could be huge as an Ethernet interface for a DAC. There are some reasons why an FPGA might still be preferable (better signal clocking) but its possible that Marvel has already implemented the good stuff in a SoC. It might actually be able to do LVDS DSD output through one of its IO channels given a driver. At the very least it will be good to compare the two approaches.

 

I just had a quick browse to the click boards. Among them there are some for D/A, A/D, I2S, accepting outside clock... Further investigation is needed. You may post a direct inquiry on SolidRun Marvel SOC forum.

[Jud]

I just had a quick browse to the click boards. Among them there are some for D/A, A/D, I2S, accepting outside clock... Further investigation is needed. You may post a direct inquiry on SolidRun Marvel SOC forum.

 

The DAC board I looked at (of 3 available for the same price) was 12-bit.

[bibo01]

The DAC board I looked at (of 3 available for the same price) was 12-bit.

 

You are right. There doesn't seem to be an audiophile click board as such, but perhaps something could be developed for the mikroBUS.

[nautibuoy]

I went through the Botic patches and I can see various reasons why this driver is having problems and I don't see how it would easily start working correctly. For example the support for rates above 192k is done in a wrong way that is going to break things and also the DSD support is handling LE and BE formats in the same way without dealing with the different byte order. In addition there's a bug where switch-case statement is missing break; at the end.

 

These things would get pointed out if Miroslav would submit the patches to the alsa-devel mailing list... But he probably knows that.

 

Thanks for putting the time into this Jussi.

 

Now, how to pass the information on.....

 

Ray

[bibo01]

The DAC board I looked at (of 3 available for the same price) was 12-bit.

 

In fact, there is also DAC 2 which is 16-bit.

[jabbr]

I just had a quick browse to the click boards. Among them there are some for D/A, A/D, I2S, accepting outside clock... Further investigation is needed. You may post a direct inquiry on SolidRun Marvel SOC forum.

 

The Marvell Armada 38x does I2S it seems, but I don't know if it can be programmed to do DSD (using the I2S pins). An FPGA certainly can be programmed to output direct DSD. Those add on boards look like they are I2C which is lower speed than I2S, so not sure they will be helpful (it looks like some of those ADC/DAC boards are low sample rate).

 

Regarding the snickerdoodle/ZYNQ, there is an opencore I2S implementation which could be used as the basis for a DSD implementation. https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Xilinx/ZC702/wheezy, so NAA with fiberoptic Ethernet input and direct DSD output is looking feasible.

[YashN]

Well, over on the actual thread for the product, the designer has now confirmed that it has the equivalent of the Uptone USB Regen built in.

 

The Regen is a $170 item that has received widespread praise and good reviews as a "good for the money" add-on to USB.

 

Add to that all the hefty R & D work done by John on the hardware side, and then making the PCB + components very specifically audiophile-focused (it's not an existing SBC purchased from a third party and re-packaged here), together with merging and maintaining the software stack to support all the various protocols they do.

 

Additionally, since they're a small company, it's a boutique product, they can't have access to massive volume discounts for parst, so to me, although above my current budget, I think it's very fairly priced.

 

Now, it also supports DLNA and what not, which means (to me again) that is it quite a bit more complex as I ideally would want it as an NAA (you need a much larger hardware stack to support the large software stack for DLNA support).

 

Just based on the hardware work alone, you can bet this is going to sound excellent as building an 'audiophile'-focused motherboard/PCB is rather unprecedented (rare?).

[YashN]

If it turns out to be a Regen $170 + Cubox-i $170

 

No. It has a purpose-built hardware.

[pipis2010]

Add to that all the hefty R & D work done by John on the hardware side, and then making the PCB + components very specifically audiophile-focused (it's not an existing SBC purchased from a third party and re-packaged here), together with merging and maintaining the software stack to support all the various protocols they do.

 

Additionally, since they're a small company, it's a boutique product, they can't have access to massive volume discounts for parst, so to me, although above my current budget, I think it's very fairly priced.

 

Now, it also supports DLNA and what not, which means (to me again) that is it quite a bit more complex as I ideally would want it as an NAA (you need a much larger hardware stack to support the large software stack for DLNA support).

 

Just based on the hardware work alone, you can bet this is going to sound excellent as building an 'audiophile'-focused motherboard/PCB is rather unprecedented (rare?).

 

+1, The purpose-built board alone would cost a small fortune to produce, especially in such small quantities! Add to that a small percentage of margin for each unit sold (I doubt it's more than $100-150 bucks, if that) and you get a fairly priced component.

 

Don't forget, that it's meant to replace the computer in the chain - well, in some cases anyway...

 

Anyhow, there is already a short description of a pre-production unit, which seems to sound amazing and is been characterised as a "game changer".

That shouldn't come as a surprise though, since the microRendu has one of the best USB implementations, along with Aurender I would imagine (who also custom-built their boards)...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[Iain]

Do any of those boards do anything we are interested in?

 

...

 

LOL.

 

The few times I've looked here, this thread seems to be Unix/Linux centric and nothing here for us unfortunates who are still using Windows.

 

Currently I'm using Foobar2000, as that player is very stable and works quite well in an Open Home/DLNA environment.

 

Is there any way to get HQPlayer NAA to work correctly? Mine doesn't.

 

BTW, I'm using a laptop with only one Express Card slot for peripheral expansion.

[ted_b]

LOL.

 

The few times I've looked here, this thread seems to be Unix/Linux centric and nothing here for us unfortunates who are still using Windows.

 

Currently I'm using Foobar2000, as that player is very stable and works quite well in an Open Home/DLNA environment.

 

Is there any way to get HQPlayer NAA to work correctly? Mine doesn't.

 

Iain,

There are lots of us running HQP and NAA on Windows. And yes, there is a Foobar to HQplayer setup that bogi has created (passing Foobar playlists to HQPlayer). But Foobar by itself; of course not..NAA is HQPlayer's backend, no one elses.

[Iain]

Iain,

There are lots of us running HQP and NAA on Windows. And yes, there is a Foobar to HQplayer setup that bogi has created (passing Foobar playlists to HQPlayer). But Foobar by itself; of course not..NAA is HQPlayer's backend, no one elses.

 

Actually, I meant getting getting HQP and HQP NAA properly working together. The few times I've tried it, all I get is silence, even though NAA indicates it's streaming.

 

What's your secret to get them working in an Open Home environment as they should be?

[ted_b]

OpenHome is a UPnP Linn extension, nothing to do with HQP and NAA.

[Iain]

Iain,

There are lots of us running HQP and NAA on Windows. And yes, there is a Foobar to HQplayer setup that bogi has created (passing Foobar playlists to HQPlayer). But Foobar by itself; of course not..NAA is HQPlayer's backend, no one elses.

 

OpenHome is a UPnP Linn extension, nothing to do with HQP and NAA.

 

OK.

 

I'll repeat my message then, using a different context. What's your secret to getting HQP and HQP NAA working properly together, outside of an Open Home environment?

[ted_b]

Yes, QUITE a different context. I have HQP running on a Windows platform (i7 3770S WS2012 with AO) and have NAA also running on a (smaller) Windows platform (Caps Carbon, WS2012 with AO, JCAT USB card). Runs flawlessly, either via Roon (2 channel) or drag and drop (multichannel). Both are headless, so in the case of 2 channel I browse via Roon remote; in the case of multichannel I use an iPad's RDC app (remote desktop).