HQPlayer's Network Audio Adapter

[Cebolla]

Deleted

[Iain]

OK.

 

I'll repeat my message then, using a different context. What's your secret to getting HQP and HQP NAA working properly together, outside of an Open Home environment?

 

Yes, QUITE a different context. I have HQP running on a Windows platform (i7 3770S WS2012 with AO) and have NAA also running on a (smaller) Windows platform (Caps Carbon, WS2012 with AO, JCAT USB card). Runs flawlessly, either via Roon (2 channel) or drag and drop (multichannel). Both are headless, so in the case of 2 channel I browse via Roon remote; in the case of multichannel I use an iPad's RDC app (remote desktop).

 

My complete system specifications:

Tecra W50-A-115 - Toshiba

 

... as it should run anything properly presented to it.

 

Also, what are AO, JCAT and the RDC app and will I need an express card for anything?

[ted_b]

HQP/NAA is a two pc solution. Where does the NAA sit (assuming the Tecra is your HQP machine, based on your "it can run anything" comment)?

 

AO is Audiophile Optimizer, a Windows 10 or Windows Server 2012 optimization program

JCAT is a USB card manufacturer

RDC is what I said, a Microsoft remote desktop app so I can, from my iPad, see HQPlayer running on my i7 to do the drag-n-drop.

[pipis2010]

My complete system specifications:

Tecra W50-A-115 - Toshiba

 

... as it should run anything properly presented to it.

 

Also, what are AO, JCAT and the RDC app and will I need an express card for anything?

 

Yes, QUITE a different context. I have HQP running on a Windows platform (i7 3770S WS2012 with AO) and have NAA also running on a (smaller) Windows platform (Caps Carbon, WS2012 with AO, JCAT USB card). Runs flawlessly, either via Roon (2 channel) or drag and drop (multichannel). Both are headless, so in the case of 2 channel I browse via Roon remote; in the case of multichannel I use an iPad's RDC app (remote desktop).

 

Can you guys upsample to DSD256 without any problems? I have an i3-3110M laptop but it's not powerful enough to handle DSD256 (RAM 4GB, Win 8, no audio optimizations at all)...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[jabbr]

+1, The purpose-built board alone would cost a small fortune to produce, especially in such small quantities!

 

Not so much, really. You would be surprised how inexpensively you have custom boards built these days. The value in a product is the design effort. There is a growing infrastructure (look at element14/newark for example) devoted to SoC design/build. Given the increasing chip integration we are essentially at: SoC chip, power supply chip, a few bypass caps, clock, i/o connectors particularly if all we are asking for is Ethernet in and USB out. So you can design your board in Eagle for example and within Eagle click on a link that will essentially quote you a price for a produced board (you still need to fill in a few options :) Kickstarters are a way to do a big "group buy" that guarentees the volume necessary to hit better price points ... but we are not talking hundreds of dollars/board unless you are making just 1.

[ted_b]

Can you guys upsample to DSD256 without any problems? I have an i3-3110M laptop but it's not powerful enough to handle DSD256 (RAM 4GB, Win 8, no audio optimizations at all)...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile mobile app

 

Yes, although upsampling is an HQP machine issue, not NAA. The only time I can't upsample to DSD256 is multichannel DSD files. I leave them all (64, 128, 256) DirectSDM.

[Iain]

HQP/NAA is a two pc solution. Where does the NAA sit (assuming the Tecra is your HQP machine, based on your "it can run anything" comment)?

 

AO is Audiophile Optimizer, a Windows 10 or Windows Server 2012 optimization program

JCAT is a USB card manufacturer

RDC is what I said, a Microsoft remote desktop app so I can, from my iPad, see HQPlayer running on my i7 to do the drag-n-drop.

 

Is this what you're referring to?

 

Under Windows 7, if you have either of the following installed:

• Windows 7 Professional
  
• Windows 7 Ultimate
  

 

... remote desktop connections between those machines are allowed. Thus the applications are pre-installed.

 

Fortunately, the predecessor to my current machine has the latter OS. RDC works quite well as I used to check my email on Office 2010 before Office 2016 was released in November.

 

WRT p.1, NAA is resident in ~Iain/bin in my normal user space. HQPlayer is installed in normal 64-bit installation directory:

C:\Programme Files\Signalyst

 

What do I need to do to get NAA working properly?

[ted_b]

? Do you understand what NAA is? Why are you trying to run NAA on the same machine as HQP? And why do you need RDC if your HQP machine is your laptop, which I assume is what you use to browse HQP? If you use an iPad at your listening position, then put the RDC there (as long as your OS is supporting it).

[Miska]

Yes, although upsampling is an HQP machine issue, not NAA. The only time I can't upsample to DSD256 is multichannel DSD files. I leave them all (64, 128, 256) DirectSDM.

 

Ted, have you considered using GeForce 900-series to offload part of the processing for multichannel use?

[zorntel]

Can you guys upsample to DSD256 without any problems? I have an i3-3110M laptop but it's not powerful enough to handle DSD256 (RAM 4GB, Win 8, no audio optimizations at all)...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile mobile app

 

The lowest power machine I've been able to reliably get DSD256 on was a I7-3615QM 2.3ghz (4-core MacMini Late 2012). This machine had an SSD, 16gb RAM and 6gb L3. I could only get it when I used polysinc 2s variant filters. I believe Jussi has a similar machine with Windows 8 installed on it that also does DSD256.

 

I'm now using 2x Xeon E5520 2.26ghz (8-core Mac Pro Early 2009). This machine has a SSD, 28gB RAM and 8gb L3. It also has a CUDA enabled GTX780 GPU. It will do DSD256 with any filter I through at it...I typically use either poly-sinc or closed-form. It won't do DSD512 without stuttering, however. The CUDA card got me from poly-sinc 2s to poly-sinc with DSD256.

 

The machine I'm using most at DSD256 is a 2x Xeon 2670 2.6ghz (16 core Dell Precision T5600 - 2013). This machine has a SSD 64gB RAM and 40gb L3. It also has a CUDA enable MSI GTX970 GPU). I'm currently running Windows 10 on this machine with Fidelizer 7.0. It will do DSD256 effortlessly including with DSD256 files with DSP. processing with any filter. It will also do DSD512 with polysinc 2s filters.

 

If you look back a few pages Jussi weighed in on recommended processors for DSD256. For lower cost machines he recommended a i7 6700K that has 16gb of RAM and 8gb L3. The Dell Precision XPS8900 is sub $1K and comes with a CUDA enabled GPU.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Robert

 

[ted_b]

Ted, have you considered using GeForce 900-series to offload part of the processing for multichannel use?

 

My only PCIe slot on the Zuma-styled pc is taken with the Mellanox fiber card.

[pipis2010]

The lowest power machine I've been able to reliably get DSD256 on was a I7-3615QM 2.3ghz (4-core MacMini Late 2012). This machine had an SSD, 16gb RAM and 6gb L3. I could only get it when I used polysinc 2s variant filters. I believe Jussi has a similar machine with Windows 8 installed on it that also does DSD256.

 

I'm now using 2x Xeon E5520 2.26ghz (8-core Mac Pro Early 2009). This machine has a SSD, 28gB RAM and 8gb L3. It also has a CUDA enabled GTX780 GPU. It will do DSD256 with any filter I through at it...I typically use either poly-sinc or closed-form. It won't do DSD512 without stuttering, however. The CUDA card got me from poly-sinc 2s to poly-sinc with DSD256.

 

The machine I'm using most at DSD256 is a 2x Xeon 2670 2.6ghz (16 core Dell Precision T5600 - 2013). This machine has a SSD 64gB RAM and 40gb L3. It also has a CUDA enable MSI GTX970 GPU). I'm currently running Windows 10 on this machine with Fidelizer 7.0. It will do DSD256 effortlessly including with DSD256 files with DSP. processing with any filter. It will also do DSD512 with polysinc 2s filters.

 

If you look back a few pages Jussi weighed in on recommended processors for DSD256. For lower cost machines he recommended a i7 6700K that has 16gb of RAM and 8gb L3. The Dell Precision XPS8900 is sub $1K and comes with a CUDA enabled GPU.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Robert

 

 

Thank you Robert for all the details! I would have never thought that DSD512 is so cpu intensive...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[ted_b]

Thank you Robert for all the details! I would have never thought that DSD512 is so cpu intensive...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile mobile app

 

Remember, this is about upsampling everything to DSD256/DSD512, not simply playing DSD512 back natively. That's easy.

[Iain]

Yes, QUITE a different context. I have HQP running on a Windows platform (i7 3770S WS2012 with AO) and have NAA also running on a (smaller) Windows platform (Caps Carbon, WS2012 with AO, JCAT USB card). Runs flawlessly, either via Roon (2 channel) or drag and drop (multichannel). Both are headless, so in the case of 2 channel I browse via Roon remote; in the case of multichannel I use an iPad's RDC app (remote desktop).

 

? Do you understand what NAA is? Why are you trying to run NAA on the same machine as HQP? And why do you need RDC if your HQP machine is your laptop, which I assume is what you use to browse HQP? If you use an iPad at your listening position, then put the RDC there (as long as your OS is supporting it).

 

According to Signalyst, this rather ambiguous statement is their definition of NAA:

Signalyst

"Network Audio Adapter

 

Network audio is especially useful to give freedom from cables when player is run on a tablet or other wireless device.

Processing is performed by the player application and the processed data is then asynchronously streamed over network to a very lightweight network audio adapter interfacing to the DAC. Asynchronous FIFO provides maximum isolation between processing and audio reproduction."

 

There's not a lot of information on Signalist web site of NAA, or how to configure it. Also, you're the person to first bring up RDC. Not sure why you would need it to establish a network connection for HQP. I had assumed that the purpose of NAA is to establish a network connection from one IP address, to another IP address.

 

BTW, I use Android.

[jabbr]

According to Signalyst, this rather ambiguous statement is their definition of NAA:

Signalyst

"Network Audio Adapter

 

...

 

I think many of us know what HQPlayer is and how to use NAA.

 

NAA is used on a different machine than which runs HQPlayer. Are you trying to run both on the same machine?

[ted_b]

Are you trying to run both on the same machine?

 

I asked the same question, but he will not answer. He has one Tecra laptop, using Foobar, and initially asked about OpenHome. This does NOT bode well; it has zero to do with HQP, let alone NAA.

 

Iain, we are here to help, but we need answers. Again, why the obsession with NAA?

[Iain]

I think many of us know what HQPlayer is and how to use NAA.

 

NAA is used on a different machine than which runs HQPlayer.

What's the reasoning of this?

 

 

Are you trying to run both on the same machine?

Yes, as I want to send the output from an IP address to another IP address on the same LAN.

[Iain]

I asked the same question, but he will not answer. He has one Tecra laptop, using Foobar, and initially asked about OpenHome. This does NOT bode well; it has zero to do with HQP, let alone NAA.

 

Iain, we are here to help, but we need answers. Again, why the obsession with NAA?

 

Actually, as good as the sound quality is with a well configured Foobar2000 in my 5.1 system, SQ could be so much better with HQPlayer replacing Foobar2000. I can tell that straight away by comparing SQ between both players on speakers of my external monitor.

 

This was my original plan, but so far it hasn't worked yet. I thought NAA would be the way to do that.

[jabbr]

What's the reasoning of this?

NAA is specifically designed to be used on a low powered machine attached to the network. HQPlayer needs a higher powered machine. I have found that my high powered HQPlayer machine (on which I run OS X) generates noise, so I attach my DAC to a low powered, electrically quiet machine. I happen to separate the two by fiberoptic ethernet but you can use any kind of Ethernet or wifi.

Yes, as I want to send the output from an IP address to another IP address on the same LAN.

 

Where are the two IP addresses? Both on the same machine? So between network interfaces?

 

I can't help you because I've never tried to do that, (two IP addresses on the same machine) and you are trying to do something which is not the design so I wouldn't be surprised if there are difficulties. Don't blame HQPlayer though, as its not designed to do that.

[jabbr]

Actually, as good as the sound quality is with a well configured Foobar2000 in my 5.1 system, SQ could be so much better with HQPlayer replacing Foobar2000. I can tell that straight away by comparing SQ between both players on speakers of my external monitor.

 

This was my original plan, but so far it hasn't worked yet. I thought NAA would be the way to do that.

 

You just want to run HQPlayer on your machine and select the (USB Connected?) DAC. Use NAA *only* if you have a second machine, and run networkaudiod (NAA process) on that machine.

[zaumator]

[h=1]Amanero card now supporting DSD native[/h]https://github.com/lintweaker/xmos-native-dsd/issues/12

 

But i dont know how to implement this...

[francolargo]

I went through the Botic patches and I can see various reasons why this driver is having problems...

 

It seems to me that a fully functioning HQP NAA with the Botic patches would be good for HQP adoption. Jussi, would you share your specific observations with Meiro? He expressed a willingness to work on the issues.

[firedog]

What's the reasoning of this?

 

 

 

Yes, as I want to send the output from an IP address to another IP address on the same LAN.

 

Sorry, but it sounds like you don't understand what an NAA is and are trying to do something that isn't the intent of the system. NAA means that it is a NETWORKED playback device, not on the same machine.

 

As was said, it's designed to be a 2 machine setup over a network. The idea is that the powerful machine hosts the main HQP software (desktop version) and that does all the upsampling, etc. HQP "serves" the upsampled etc, data over the network to the NAA machine. The NAA machine only does the basic audio playback and output to the DAC - no processing.

 

You install NAA software on (we're assuming) some other machine that's optimized for audio: CAPS, SMS-100, SonicOrbiter, etc. THAT machine is connected to your DAC.

 

On the powerful machine in HQP you define "backend"as "Network Aaudio Adapter". The HQP installation will then find the NAA on the network.

 

The NAA machine should now be pretty isolated from any noise etc, produced by the server machine becauase of the network connection and the NAA machine shouldn't be contributing much of it's own when it does the actual playback.

 

Result: better SQ in playback than if you connected HQP directly to the DAC without an NAA machine in the middle.

 

That's why the idea is that the NAA and HQP software aren't on the same machine.

[Iain]

...

 

 

Where are the two IP addresses? Both on the same machine? So between network interfaces?

 

...

First read this thread, as it will give you some background information as to what I'm trying to do:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/asio-driver-query-25893/#post514322

 

... from post #7 onward.

 

The two IPv4 addresses are on the same LAN. One address is for the media server and the other is the for the renderer.

 

Please read posts 4926 and 4927 here:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/hq-player-20293/index198.html#post516230

 

Those two posts are about HQ Player embedded. What's interesting there is that application seems to inherently have device discovery protocol, whilst bog standard HQP doesn't. I feel that's what the latter application lacks for it to do what I need it to do (transfer data to renderer).

 

This is from HQP website:

"

HQPlayer Embedded

 

Embedded version of HQPlayer is designed for building Linux-based music playback devices. It provides standard MPRIS player control API that can be used to integrate various different types of control interfaces. Such as using Rygel for UPnP AV Renderer, or implementing a custom GUI. Optional support for FFMPEG libraries for extending media decoding capabilities. "

 

Query isn't actually about the application for Windows, rather it's about implementing MPRIS player control on HQ Player.

 

Device discovery protocol might enable HQ Player to find renderer on LAN. If so, I wouldn't need to start Open Home services; i could simply replace Foobar2000 with HQ Player.

 

This is all I want to do

[ted_b]

LOL.

 

The few times I've looked here, this thread seems to be Unix/Linux centric and nothing here for us unfortunates who are still using Windows.

 

 

You began this wild goose chase with an LOL and a demand for Windows users feedback. After not answering the basic questions a few of us had (cuz we wanted to help) about your NAA knowledge, you now want us to read a bunch of threads AND ARE TALKING ABOUT A LINUX HQP EMBEDDED SCENARIO?? All the while with one Tecra Windows laptop in your system?? I'm done, sorry. I can't follow. Hopefully others can.