Couple or De-couple floor speakers

[Julf]

Richard,

 

I hired my electrician, who is a musician as well, and had his crew install dedicated 20amp lines to my equipment.

 

Just curious, did he do it all the way from your distribution transformer, or just from the meter panel?

[REShaman]

Richard,

 

 

 

Just curious, did he do it all the way from your distribution transformer, or just from the meter panel?

 

He installed a new service box with additional circuits and reconfigured a number of them. Then ran lines directly from the box to certain Synergistic Research Tesla outlets (20amp). Not sure what you mean by distribution transformer. Do you mean from inside the house to the street? Sorry, relatively inexperienced with this. He also ran dedicated 20 amp lines for my HT equipment. There I use a PS Audio Power Plant Premier (a few years old, not the new improved even more expensive.

 

Considering either getting an SR Power Cell or Shunyata Hydra Talos Power Conditioner. Any thoughts? I am already into OT land.

 

Best,

Richard

Best,

Richard

 

No hums. Nothing. Quiet.

[Julf]

He installed a new service box with additional circuits and reconfigured a number of them. Then ran lines directly from the box to certain Synergistic Research Tesla outlets (20amp).

 

I assume the wiring and fuses/breakers were at least 20A as well.

 

Not sure what you mean by distribution transformer. Do you mean from inside the house to the street?

 

Yes, or formally the other way around

 

The distribution transformer is where the voltage is dropped to 110 V for your house (and possibly some neighbours, as transformers can be shared). Typically in either a transformer cabinet in the street or a "dust bin" on a pole.

 

Considering either getting an SR Power Cell or Shunyata Hydra Talos Power Conditioner. Any thoughts? I am already into OT land.

 

No hums. Nothing. Quiet.

 

I think you answered your question

 

Power conditioners / filters are solutions if you have problems with power line noise. If you don't have any problems, you don't need them.

[REShaman]

I assume the wiring and fuses/breakers were at least 20A as well.

 

 

 

Yes, or formally the other way around

 

The distribution transformer is where the voltage is dropped to 110 V for your house (and possibly some neighbours, as transformers can be shared). Typically in either a transformer cabinet in the street or a "dust bin" on a pole.

 

 

 

I think you answered your question

 

Power conditioners / filters are solutions if you have problems with power line noise. If you don't have any problems, you don't need them.

 

Yes, breakers are 20amps; and, yes, no fuses.

Con Edison rewired from one of the power poles to our house a few years ago. Completely new and thicker copper line. The electrician a time back grounded a wire in the basement through the stone to the outside and drove 2 ten feet copper poles into the ground (buried them with the wires attached. That also seemed to help at least if not for the system for grounding should you know what occur.

(Chuckling), I can find things to spend money on without a power conditioner. There's nothing to hear not from the speakers or subwoofer, or the units. Used to hear something from the speakers before the dedicated lines were installed. Now you can't even hear a pin drop (if it lands on the carpet.)

Also I keep all my equipment either on SR MIGs or Herbie's Audio Lab isolation doo dads. Everyone of them seems quite stable and un-noisy.

I am happy.

Best,

Richard

[Julf]

Yes, breakers are 20amps; and, yes, no fuses.

Con Edison rewired from one of the power poles to our house a few years ago. Completely new and thicker copper line. The electrician a time back grounded a wire in the basement through the stone to the outside and drove 2 ten feet copper poles into the ground (buried them with the wires attached.

 

Excellent!

 

(Chuckling), I can find things to spend money on without a power conditioner. There's nothing to hear not from the speakers or subwoofer, or the units. Used to hear something from the speakers before the dedicated lines were installed. Now you can't even hear a pin drop (if it lands on the carpet.)

Also I keep all my equipment either on SR MIGs or Herbie's Audio Lab isolation doo dads. Everyone of them seems quite stable and un-noisy.

I am happy.

 

So it really sounds like my recommendation would be "don't worry, be happy!"

[REShaman]

Excellent!

 

 

 

So it really sounds like my recommendation would be "don't worry, be happy!"

You always get to the heart of the matter with an economy of words. And I always enjoy your participation. Always? Yes, always.

Best,

Richard

[Julf]

You always get to the heart of the matter with an economy of words.

 

I have to share one of my favourite stories from my native country, Finland:

 

Two old friends got together for a couple of drinks. After spending the whole afternoon doing booze, one of them looks out of the window and says "It is raining out there". The other replies "Did we come here to drink, or to b****y talk?"

[REShaman]

I have to share one of my favourite stories from my native country, Finland:

 

Two old friends got together for a couple of drinks. After spending the whole afternoon doing booze, one of them looks out of the window and says "It is raining out there". The other replies "Did we come here to drink, or to b****y talk?"

 

Um, er' not being Finnish, tell you just tell me to stop doing (something?) that you find offensive? :>{

I am finished (my post that is). :>}

 

Yes, always,

Richard

B

[REShaman]

I have to share one of my favourite stories from my native country, Finland:

 

Two old friends got together for a couple of drinks. After spending the whole afternoon doing booze, one of them looks out of the window and says "It is raining out there". The other replies "Did we come here to drink, or to b****y talk?"

 

First things first: OT Ecology - couple/decouple floor speakers> standing on the floor speaking, so I'll say bloody talk and drink, how's that for coupling floor standing speaker?

(Sorry OP, I've sent myself to the corner, please no one bother).

Richard

[Julf]

Richard, apologies for the very late response, but I have been in a field full of military vehicles in Southern England, without an internet connection. Only got home last night.

 

My comment was meant as a light stab at my own native culture and communication patterns, and was in no way directed at you - it was really more of a funny (or so I thought) anecdote to share. My apologies for any unintended offence.

[REShaman]

Richard, apologies for the very late response, but I have been in a field full of military vehicles in Southern England, without an internet connection. Only got home last night.

 

My comment was meant as a light stab at my own native culture and communication patterns, and was in no way directed at you - it was really more of a funny (or so I thought) anecdote to share. My apologies for any unintended offence.

 

Honestly, did not receive it as offensive. I think I know you better than that. It was evident even from the tone of your text. I was sparring, perhaps with typos and distance etc. my sparring was not very good. Hoping my ending with "Yes, always..." would cue you, hopefully, to my kibitzing with you (even if feebly). No worries Mate (as I learned that phrase from an Australian poster I briefly chatted with about "stuff").

 

Welcome back, Julf. CA's like a soap opera, you can pick up right where you left off and hardly miss a beat. Note: Chris did not mean that as a derogatory statement about CA, just one of the angles depending on POV.

 

Military vehicles? Southern England? My G-d, you don't mean invasion of France during the French Open? Queen's Golden Jubilee in charge of Secure Communications and Interception of Clandestine Downloads?

 

To OP, I am afraid we shall soon run out of corners to put me in.

 

Best,

Richard

[Julf]

Richard,

 

Welcome back, Julf. CA's like a soap opera, you can pick up right where you left off and hardly miss a beat.

 

Thanks! And yes, I think you are right

 

Military vehicles? Southern England? My G-d, you don't mean invasion of France during the French Open? Queen's Golden Jubilee in charge of Secure Communications and Interception of Clandestine Downloads?

 

The last one was pretty close - or would have been, 25 years ago

 

I was displaying some Cold War era electronic warfare trucks and equipment - restored to operational status, but not really state of art any more. Still gives people an idea of the rather clever ways we kept both ourselves and the russians from taking the crucial steps into a real nuclear war - even if it sometimes involved a lot of coat hangers and duct tape. And I have to say that a 21 m / 70 ft antenna mast with a log periodic array on top of it gives pretty good radio reception - too bad the speakers and headsets aren't really high end audio.

[REShaman]

Richard,

 

 

 

Thanks! And yes, I think you are right

 

 

 

The last one was pretty close - or would have been, 25 years ago

 

I was displaying some Cold War era electronic warfare trucks and equipment - restored to operational status, but not really state of art any more. Still gives people an idea of the rather clever ways we kept both ourselves and the russians from taking the crucial steps into a real nuclear war - even if it sometimes involved a lot of coat hangers and duct tape. And I have to say that a 21 m / 70 ft antenna mast with a log periodic array on top of it gives pretty good radio reception - too bad the speakers and headsets aren't really high end audio.

 

Now you're talking about extended decoupling from a much, much larger system with many, many more speakers. (Pause for effect)

 

And now back to our thread already in progress, apparently decoupled by two rambunctious, slightly humorous rogues who have driven away the field of posters seeking further clarification on the subject of this thread (where are they?).

For shame,

Richard

[PET-240]

Well I'm in Australia but I'm sure that's not what you mean.......

 

Actually Barry, if you are still reading this thread, would you be able to shed some light on your HipJoints if they aren't for commercial design please?

 

Have access to machining gear as required.

 

Many Thanks,

 

Drew.

[PET-240]

Well I'm in Australia, but I'm thinking that's not what you mean.......

 

Actually Barry if you are reading this I would wonder if you would share you actual measurements with us please? How you got to figure out what you did what great reading by the way!

 

Thanks Muchly,

 

Drew.

 

Didn't see another post so did it again to be subscribed for any replies....

[mbain]

Barry,

If you don't mind, could you itemize the specifications for the HipJoints as seen in your article on isolation techniques? I will understand if the specifications are proprietary in nature and best kept private.

 

Mark

[mwheelerk]

My simplistic approach has I feel worked fine for me. I have cement slab floors with medium weight carpeting. My Dynaudio monitors are mounted on Solid Tech speaker stands. I have always use Blu Tack between the speaker and the top plate of the stand. The two columns on each speaker stand are fill with aquarium sand which I find to be very dry, pours real well, and is a small and consistent particle size which packs tightly within the column. I always use speaker spike but wish I could find the size to fit my stands that has a knurled nut rather than a standard nut for adjustment and tightening. I think they are easier to set.

[sdolezalek]

Barry: Thanks for a much clearer explanation of what is going on with regarding to roller bearings. I'm still unclear on a couple of things and would appreciate further explanation if you can: If the frequency of the roller bearing is like that of a spring then at higher frequencies it should behave as the equivalent of a spike for any vibration in the speaker, i.e. pass it through to the floor. At lower frequencies, the vibration is damped. I assume the same would be true of vibrations coming from the room into the speaker or other piece of equipment. But what are the frequencies of the vibrations we are trying to get rid of?

 

In architecture, the same principle was used to protect buildings from earthquakes, also a low frequency event. But are we trying to protect our equipment from subsonic vibrations? Similarly, if we are trying to drain the motor vibrations of a turntable or CD player, shouldn't the focus be on the frequency of that particular vibration? What am I missing?

 

Separately, although I'm sure there are inherent benefits of using an equilateral triangle configuration, is that what you do with your 3.7 Maggie's? Or do you use a four corners configuration for greater overall stability?

[bdiament]

Hi Drew,

 

Haven't been here in a while and just saw your post.

 

Best regards,

Barry

Soundkeeper Recordings

Barry Diament Audio

[bdiament]

Hi Mark,

 

The design is proprietary.

Check your inbox for a PM.

 

Best regards,

Barry

Soundkeeper Recordings

Barry Diament Audio

[bdiament]

Hi sdolezalek,

 

...what are the frequencies of the vibrations we are trying to get rid of?...

 

In my experience, isolation is most effective when it begins at a low single digit frequency. It will *increase* above this point (not diminish to coupling as you surmise with the comparison to a spike). The degree of increase, i.e., the steepness of the rolloff above resonance is inversely related to the amount of damping on the motion of the "spring".

 

 

...In architecture, the same principle was used to protect buildings from earthquakes, also a low frequency event. But are we trying to protect our equipment from subsonic vibrations? Similarly, if we are trying to drain the motor vibrations of a turntable or CD player, shouldn't the focus be on the frequency of that particular vibration? What am I missing?...

 

We're trying to protect the gear from any vibrations. In order to take effect as soon as possible in the low bass, the resonance of the isolating device must be in the low single digits. Isolation will *begin* to take effect at approximately 1.4x the resonance frequency.

 

I don't seek to drain vibrations from my gear as my opinion (which is all it is) is that this is a marketing term. To explain, if something is being drained, I expect to find less of it in the place from which it has been drained. (Think of draining the water from a sink.) If the net result is not less vibration, then all we've created is a new path -- a new *resonant* path.

 

 

...Separately, although I'm sure there are inherent benefits of using an equilateral triangle configuration, is that what you do with your 3.7 Maggie's? Or do you use a four corners configuration for greater overall stability?

 

My experience has been that three points make for more stability than four, so this is what I use under all my gear, including the Maggies and the subs.

 

Have you tried roller bearings in your system? If so, I'd be curious to hear of your experience with them.

 

Best regards,

Barry

Soundkeeper Recordings

Barry Diament Audio

[DigiPete]

Many professional monitors comes equipped with bolt holes for wall brackets.

 

I have my speakers bolted to the wall (concrete).

The sub is fitted with felt pads and standing on the wooden floor.

 

I may need to dampen the floor itself, but that is not due to the sub.

The font speakers still pull all the way down to 20hz, and they run solo when I play stereo.

I have persian rugs, but it's unfortunately not enough to dampen the floor fully.

 

The setup is very satisfactory apart from the vibrating floor.

[4est]

Many professional monitors comes equipped with bolt holes for wall brackets.

 

I have my speakers bolted to the wall (concrete).

The sub is fitted with felt pads and standing on the wooden floor.

 

I may need to dampen the floor itself, but that is not due to the sub.

The font speakers still pull all the way down to 20hz, and they run solo when I play stereo.

I have persian rugs, but it's unfortunately not enough to dampen the floor fully.

 

The setup is very satisfactory apart from the vibrating floor.

 

DigiPete: How close to the wall behind, aren't your speakers rear ported?

[elcorso]

Cement slab floor and deep/plush shag carpet . . . What is recommended for stand/no stand/spikes/ space under speakers?

 

This is what (I) would do:

 

If the cement slab floor is a solid one (free of building or street vibration) I would follow your speaker manufacturer recommendations, regarding to "spike" or not to the floor, then coupling it to the floor. There is a lot of good spikes in the market. Try the rigid one first, like heavy industrial steel, and not aluminum, plastic, carbons fiber, etc. The spikes must be in equilateral triangle configuration.

 

If not solid, you need to de-couple. Please try the following: Buy a solid piece of wood, about 2" thick and about 2 times the size of your speakers bottom, for example, if the speaker bottom measure 2 square feet, you will need 4 square feet of wood. Maple wood is very good, like a butcher table. You can finish the wood like your speaker finish. Then you spike your speaker to the wood like the first I told you.

 

If you have a rug under the speakers you have to couple (or de-couple) directly to the cement. In the second case (with the wood table) yow need some more spikes form the cement to the wood.

 

Persian rugs are the best (and expensive) for the floor and front wall (behind the speakers). But this is for room resonances.

 

Good luck!

 

Roch

[DigiPete]

DigiPete: How close to the wall behind, aren't your speakers rear ported?

 

11,5 cm from wall to speaker at bracket - 15 cm at the port (4,5" / 5,9") for the center speaker.

 

The "stereo" speakers are angled 30 deg - pointing at the prime listening position, so acoustically the distance will work different even if it is roughly the same.

 

 

There will be a difference in distance from speaker to listening position as all my 3 front speakers are mounted on the front wall.

Genelec GLM DSP however automatically compensates with a time delay determined in the calibration measurement. Neat!