Article: Weiss Engineering DAC202 Review

[Purite Audio]

Clay Hi, sorry just being mischievous, I don't own one of Gordon's dacs yet, but I hope to soon, regarding the other two designers I am just as much a fan as you.<br />

Over here there really isn't much difference between the Model 4 and the 202 the Model 5 is quite a bit more expensive.<br />

As to margins personally I hope the new M2Tech dacs outperform anything else!<br />

Very Best,Keith.<br />

Oh and you were right about the original price of the ULN8!<br />

<br />

Scot I have had a chance to compare a Berkeley to the DAC202, a chap bought over the Alpha and a Benchmark, the Alpha was better than the Benchmark, but not as good as the 202, we used a Weiss INT interface to connect , interestingly the Weiss wasn't quite as good through it's AES input.<br />

Keith.

[barrows]

"Weiss wasn't quite as good through it's AES input."<br />

<br />

Thanks for this observation, which supports Daniel Weiss' Firewire implementation, and also reveals the limitations of SPDIF (AES is just balanced SPDIF)<br />

<br />

It is too bad that the BADA crew have decided to offer a separate box for USB (or is it Firewire, cannot remember) to SPDIF conversion, rather than building a new version of the Alpha (the Beta DAC?) which could have an internal Firewire or 24/192 capable Async USB interface. Converting to SPDIF is a really a kludge these days, as it is unnecessary.<br />

[Forehaven]

I'm glad to be back on topic, great thread where I've learned a lot. <br />

<br />

I was looking at the stats on the 202, and I was surprised to see the firewire implementation was only firewire 400. Chris had to use a 800 to 400 cable, and had some issues with it working well. Every computer built these days pretty much has FW 800, and some have both. With double the transfer rate, I wonder if Daniel could have gotten a bit more performance had he used FW800? At least it would've reduced it seems to me, the time from clicking a song to play, to having it heard from the speakers? <br />

<br />

[4est]

Could you clarify your statement?<br />

<br />

"Weiss wasn't quite as good through it's AES input."<br />

<br />

How did the Weiss spdif compare to the BADA spdif? <br />

<br />

Thank you for posting you findings BTW!

[cfmsp]

<br />

<br />

"With double the transfer rate, I wonder if Daniel could have gotten a bit more performance had he used FW800?"<br />

<br />

I don't think the Firewire 400 is limiting in any way for a 2 channel DAC. BJ uses Firewire 400 inputs on the Metric Halo '8s, which handle 8 channels of 192kHz with bandwidth to spare.<br />

<br />

clay

[cfmsp]

<br />

"Clay Hi, sorry just being mischievous,"<br />

<br />

Ditto, with my comment about margins. <br />

<br />

<br />

I don't recall that you posted how the linear PS on the Amarra worked out for you. I'm interested, if you care to post, or PM if you prefer.<br />

<br />

clay

[The Computer Audiophile]

FireWire 400 is not an issue at all. I don't think there is any benefit to moving a DAC to FireWire 800. The no problems with the FireWire 800 to 400 cable. When I used an adapter I had some issues that were annoying. The single 800 to 400 cable is great.

[Purite Audio]

Clay Hi , I really couldn't hear any difference with the linear power supply rather than the standard smps, I really wanted to, and I did always used the linear supply with the Model 5 in case there might have been a bit of an improvement, I guess the ps regulation in the MH is well designed.<br />

The only times it made a difference were in a few customers systems where the smps caused a bit of spitting.<br />

Regarding the Weiss through AES, that evening the Berkeley owner wanted to hear the Weiss 202 through the Weiss INT interface, and there was perhaps a marginal lack of clarity/dynamics but still better SQ than the 'Alpha' imho.<br />

just a point the differences are relatively small, acoustically treating your room would probably bring a greater improvement at much less cost!<br />

Keith.

[Forehaven]

Really? No benefit to 800? That surprises me. But I'm happy to hear as it was a concern to me at first. And Thanks for clarifying the cable issue Chris, good to know.<br />

<br />

Regarding linear ps, it seems to have a mixed review, whereas spending money on say a Antelope clock of sorts seems to be where people are really impressed with the results. Just noting as I have no experience with either yet.

[Soundproof]

FireWire 400 has sufficient bandwidth to let you transfer 256 channels of MIDI simultaneously, with full resolution audio information.<br />

<br />

Or how about hundreds of channels of high resolution digital audio, simultaneously? It will do that, too.<br />

<br />

You can mount a huge RAID-array, and have all those disks cooking at the same time, pushing and pulling data through your computer, and there won't be a glitch.<br />

<br />

For the transfer of a single two-channel audio stereo signal, even at very respectable resolutions rarely offered for sale by anyone, FireWire 400 will do you proud.<br />

<br />

:-)

[labjr]

<i><br />

"I really couldn't hear any difference with the linear power supply rather than the standard smps, I really wanted to, and I did always used the linear supply with the Model 5 in case there might have been a bit of an improvement, I guess the ps regulation in the MH is well designed."<br />

</i><br />

<br />

It's good to know at least some companies are making products which are entirely well designed and don't need all kinds of expensive 3rd party tweaks to get them to sound well.<br />

<br />

<br />

<i> "Regarding linear ps, it seems to have a mixed review, whereas spending money on say a Antelope clock of sorts seems to be where people are really impressed with the results."<br />

</i><br />

<br />

<br />

I think it depends how well the product is designed. Like the example above, it sometimes makes no difference. That's how is should be.<br />

<br />

<br />

<br />

<br />

<br />

[Purite Audio]

Lab Hi, I don't believe this was any relection of the linear supply itself, I have always been pleased with PH's designs,as you say it just confirms a well engineered design.<br />

Also a friend has been recording vinyl on the Model 5 today, you can't do that on the 202!<br />

Keith.

[earflappin]

I tried a linear power supply on my LIO-8 and, like Keith, found the difference to be inaudible. However, I am considering a LPSU for my Mac Mini as the sound quality of my MM with its stock SMPS is a definite notch below my MBP on battery. I'm strongly considering Bolder's MM LPSU based on Geoff's favorable experience and other positive postings. That being said, I would love for someone to do an A/B of a MM/LPSU versus a MBP/BPSU.....Geoff....come on and help a fellow audiophile out here.... :-)

[labjr]

<i><br />

"as the sound quality of my MM with its stock SMPS is a definite notch below my MBP on battery."<br />

</i><br />

<br />

The sound through the Metric Halo?

[Forehaven]

"FireWire 400 has sufficient bandwidth to let you transfer 256 channels of MIDI simultaneously, with full resolution audio information.<br />

Or how about hundreds of channels of high resolution digital audio, simultaneously? It will do that, too.<br />

You can mount a huge RAID-array, and have all those disks cooking at the same time, pushing and pulling data through your computer, and there won't be a glitch.<br />

For the transfer of a single two-channel audio stereo signal, even at very respectable resolutions rarely offered for sale by anyone, FireWire 400 will do you proud."<br />

<br />

Soundproof, that was a lot of great information, and it put fw 400 in perspective for me, so Thanks!....'Hundreds of channels of hi rez files simultaneously'...amazing fact.<br />

<br />

<br />

"I think it depends how well the product is designed. Like the example above, it sometimes makes no difference. That's how is should be."<br />

<br />

labjr Agreed. But wouldn't a high end dac with it's built in clock, vs any other high end dac, but slaved with a top atomic clocker? As noted earlier, manufacturers produce products with a certain price point, and there's always compromises of some sorts to meet that point. That's all I meant.<br />

<br />

Chris

[earflappin]

Yes Labjr, in both cases I was using my MH LIO-8. Both the LIO-8 and my Atma-Sphere M60 monoblock amps were completely electrically isolated from the MM/SMPS so there was no way for whatever noise the SMPS was generating from entering these devices. I also use Environmental Potentials units in my electrical panels which convert HF noise to heat and do waveform correction. The one other thing I want to do is get an iso xfer for the MM/SMPS to see what, if any impact this has on sonic performance.

[labjr]

<i><br />

"But wouldn't a high end dac with it's built in clock, vs any other high end dac, but slaved with a top atomic clocker?"<br />

</i><br />

<br />

I would think a properly designed DAC with an internal clock would outperform a DAC that's slaved to an external clock, but I'm no engineer.

[labjr]

Hi Earflappin,<br />

<br />

I guess the smps for the computer isn't as noise-free as the one for the LIO-8. Seems real hard to get rid of noise once you pollute the system. <br />

<br />

I'm guessing the LIO-8 doesn't galvanically isolate the Firewire signal but I'm not sure. I'm hoping Intel's Light Peak will be better for audio in this regard. I wish Intel, Apple, etc would hurry up with it because it looks promising.

[Blu]

Thank you Chris, the Weiss DAQC202 sounds the best yet, unfortunately it is way out of my budget, but luckily I've been able to find a second hand Weiss DAC2, and its created a soundstage behind my Tannoy speakers filled with musicians each in their own space.<br />

<br />

It is the best most musically realistic sound I've heard in any system.<br />

<br />

I'm running the Dyaide d+ firewire cable, and boy it is certainly more musical than a standard firewire cable, thoroughly recommended. There is thread on the site here about it, with a lot of positive comments.<br />

<br />

Maybe when Daniel Weiss updates the DAC202, I will be able to pick up one of them second hand. But until then I'm bowled over with the DAC2.

[dvavc]

I withdrew my comment.

[27Globes]

So, if I'm using my firewire output on my MacPro Book for the DAC, is my only option to my external HD usb?

[Audio_ELF]

<em>"So, if I'm using my firewire output on my MacPro Book for the DAC, is my only option to my external HD usb?"</em><br />

You can use a FireWire DAC daisy chained to a FireWire HD and in most cases it will work fine. Any "not working" will be obvious and not a case of sound degradation.<br />

<br />

Having said that, personally if I was using FireWire DAC I would use USB (or eSATA if available) HD.<br />

<br />

Eloise

[27Globes]

<i>You can use a FireWire DAC daisy chained to a FireWire HD and in most cases it will work fine. Any "not working" will be obvious and not a case of sound degradation.</i><br />

<br />

First, thanks...<br />

<br />

Meaning MacBook Pro >800firewire400>external>800firewire400>DAC202... Correct?<br />

<br />

Got it about your about your personal preference of USB to external HD. You don't believe any compromise is involved here in terms of speed, etc?<br />

<br />

AC

[Bob Stern]

Alex, I don't understand your notation, but if your HD has Firewire 800, then you want to connect it directly to the Mac with Firewire 800-800 cable, then daisy chain the DAC to the HD using whatever cable fits the remaining Firewire port on the HD. This allows the HD to communicate with the Mac at Firewire 800 speed.

[4est]

It is recommended by some to avoid using the same bus for DAC and HD. I use USB with my Weiss/Mini and it is plenty fast. If I were doing a file transfer or something, I just switch it over to FW 800 then plug the Weiss into the HD.