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    The Computer Audiophile

    Embracing Immersive Audio

     

     

        

        Audio: Listen to this article.

     

     

    Ten thousand hours it isn’t, but the time I’ve spent listening to immersive audio over the past couple of years is well over two thousand hours. In addition, I’ve been constantly researching it, getting educated about it, and talking to people creating it. I’ve also spent more money on music in the last couple of years, than in the previous ten years combined. All of this has given me a solid foundation from which I enjoy helping music lovers discover the possibilities of immersive audio.

     

    Based on my first-hand experience, immersive audio is the future. More specifically, Dolby Atmos is the immersive format of the future for music. I hope other formats remain and cater to those of us who love them, as a single music format would stifle innovation, remove consumer choice, and unnecessarily upset many people. For example, Morten Lindberg’s discrete immersive releases in twelve-channel DXD are astounding. They should always be the high-quality bar for which those who care about quality aim. The same goes for straight-up stereo. People have loved it since the late 1950s, and they should be able to continue to love it long into the future.

     

    MQA, on the other hand, publicly stated its goal of replacing all music formats with a single deliverable. I don’t believe that is good for anyone other than MQA. Now that it’s clear MQA won’t replace the different formats and Tidal has begun offering pure PCM FLAC, I hope MQA sticks around. It’s very evident that some people love it. They should be able to enjoy it as they see fit. Live and let listen.

     

    Back to Dolby Atmos and immersive audio, but first, a short detour further back to the 1950s. When the music and audio industries introduced stereo in the late 1950s, the reaction was as human as one can imagine. Some loved it, some hated it, and some shouted about a conspiracy to sell more equipment and the same albums over again. Today, I don’t know many people who would voluntarily go back to mono.

     

    Now that immersive audio is finally here, every marketing agency uses the term immersive for everything under the sun, and immersive music has its share of people who love it and people who hate it. Who could’ve seen this coming? Looking back in time is the surest way to predict the future, so anyone could’ve predicted we’d be in this position. In a way, it’s comforting because we have a good idea of how it will play out and how best to educate everyone so they can make well informed-decisions rather than emotional reactions.

     

    My embrace of immersive audio and Dolby Atmos in all its forms is rooted in education and experience. Others embracing Dolby Atmos are also wisely looking to the future, as audiophiles should be. “Tomorrow I will probably take my F-150 Ford Lightning to the new surf shack where I am working with Niko, my ‘Volume Dealers,’ partner, on making all my old albums in Dolby Atmos / Apple Spatial so the next generation can hear them…”  Said Neil Young earlier this year. According to Giles Martin, one of his primary goals for the Atmos mix of The Beach Boys’ Pet Sounds was to get younger generations to listen to the album. The Beach Boys “aren’t listened to enough,” and Pet Sounds “has now been lost on a generation.” Said Martin.

     

    I have first-hand experience with the results of Dolby Atmos streaming on a younger generation. My eleven-year-old daughter, far from an audiophile, wants to hear two things when listening to music: Taylor’s Versions and Dolby Atmos versions. Fortunately, Taylor’s Versions are all in Dolby Atmos, so all is right in the world when these albums are playing.

     

    When a new album of interest is released on Apple Music, my daughter asks if she can hear the Atmos version in my listening room. She NEVER asks to listen to a stereo album in my listening room, and, in fact, she only comes up to my space for Atmos and the second bathroom in our 1940s house. When one of her friends slept over, she HAD to bring her upstairs to stream Atmos from Apple Music. They both requested multiple songs, showing excitement when there was an Atmos version and disappointment when stereo sound only emanated from the front two channels.

     

    My daughter has also claimed to hear Atmos in our car, which definitely doesn’t support it, by saying, “Dad, I hear some different stuff in this speaker back here. It must be Atmos.” I delivered the disappointing truth to her, but inside, I reveled in the fact that she noticed details and quality in the music, something about which many mainstream pundits suggest nobody cares.

     

    While I had to break the non-Atmos news to my daughter in the car, for now anyway, I would never tell her, any other music lover, or fellow audiophile that the highest resolution currently available for Atmos streaming is terrible and should cease to exist. In the same way that I remember my first alcoholic beverage and the foolish mistakes made during the ensuing hours, I initially thought Atmos streaming was horrendous because it wasn’t “lossless.” I’d spent less than ten hours listening to it and concluded, from the mountaintop of The Next Track podcast, that Atmos was the worst.

     

    I have a much more educated and experienced view of Atmos in both TrueHD and Dolby Digital Plus forms today. As long as I have been an audiophile (I swear I was born into this in 1975), my goal has always been to reproduce what’s delivered in the best way possible. I’ve sought out the best copies of albums and did my best to play them through my systems as accurately as possible. Sure, I’ve got caught up in criticizing producers, engineers, artists, and dynamically crushed albums, but the bottom line is, as consumers, that’s what we’ve been given, and as audiophiles, we aim to make it as good as we can.

     

    Not listening to the Red Hot Chili Peppers’ album Californication because it’s compressed beyond belief isn’t an option. I could stand on the sidelines and wish for the remastered high-resolution Californication unicorn to appear on streaming services. However, that’s a masochistic fool’s errand that would rob me and many others of pure musical enjoyment. The same goes for Dolby Atmos streaming. Most Atmos releases today are available via Dolby Digital Plus only from streaming services. Not listening to some of the best music in the world (The Beatles, Pearl Jam, etc…) in a completely new way that breathes life and new experiences into classic works of art, isn’t an option. There’s no other way to experience what Atmos delivers. Period.

     

    What is an option, and has been THE option for audiophiles since the beginning of time, is accepting what the mass market selects and perfecting it. Shaking our fists, yelling at clouds, telling kids to get off our lawns, and hoping for something better is another way to go about it, but I’ll go with the much more enjoyable audiophile style of music reproduction. We can’t perfect what’s upstream, but we can perfect playback in our homes, offices, cars, and headphones. Using this approach has delivered countless hours of musical enjoyment to people worldwide.

     

    Circling back to history, without going too far back, one can see the evolution of high-resolution stereo as the path for high-resolution immersive audio. Innovation, competition, and earnings will likely ensure a repeat of this evolutionary process. When high resolution stereo music was released, “nobody” knew how to play it, and it was available from a couple of small labels such as AIX Records and 2L. Simultaneously, many of us were streaming music from Mog because its 320 kbps MP3 bit rate was higher than Spotify. Plus, we could even offline 320 kbps MP3s on our mobiles. Wow, what a time to be alive.

     

    During the ensuing years, many of us audiophiles continually asked for CD-quality streaming and dreamt of high-resolution streaming. It wasn’t long before we received everything we asked and dreamt about. Remember when detractors said Apple would never release CD-quality stereo music because “nobody cares about it,” let alone high resolution? (Apple offers both now). The nobody cares about “XYZ” argument is always popular when companies push “ABC.” What CEO in her right mind will say she’s releasing a second-class product even though everyone wants the first-class product? Innovation, competition, and earnings drive movement and, hopefully, progress.

     

    High-resolution immersive streaming has already been demonstrated; high-resolution immersive downloads are already available from some of the same places that pioneered high-resolution stereo downloads. In addition, Blu-ray Discs with TrueHD Atmos mixes are now being separated from expensive boxed sets and sold individually (Dark Side of the Moon), along with those such as the Super Deluxe Edition Surround Series of individual Blu-ray Discs.

     

    Embrace and perfect what is now and what is the known future while striving for something better. However, before moving an inch in any direction, get experienced. Don’t take what I say as the gospel. Do the homework, talk to people, and most importantly, spend a lot of time listening to Dolby Atmos on a system comparable to one’s two-channel system or the same two-channel system one already has. Yes, a single Dolby Atmos album from Apple Music can be decoded and played on systems from two-channels through sixteen-channels, using a Mac. I don’t have a low-fi processor in my system and neither should anyone else. A Mac straight to a high end DAC works very well. Those trying it for the first time should have the volume knob at the ready because the added dynamic range of most Atmos albums usually requires a bump in volume.

     

    TrueHD Atmos is the best, but we shouldn’t fall into the claptrap that there’s a purity test for the music we enjoy. That’s a losing proposition and a slippery slope that would have us sitting on our hands rather than browsing for great music that was recorded with less than stellar skills, dynamically compressed, or, god forbid, stamped into a piece of PVC so we can drag a needle over it to produce sound. Uniting behind great music, perfecting what we, as music-loving audiophiles, are offered from record labels, and enjoying the hell out of this wonderful hobby is what it’s all about for me. I hope many of you feel the same.

     

     

     




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    Good article on immersive audio Chris.

    Archimago hits the nail on the head with his post.

    Sadly, Stereophile has actively pursued a anti-surround music path for decades. That was highlighted in 2002 by the original founder and owner J. Gordon Holt leaving its ranks when the new boss John Atkinson refused to allow him to write about surround sound. We had the excellent run of Kal Rubinson's "In The Round" articles but sadly they are also gone.

    A magazine that is supposedly interested in bringing the news of SOTA audio to it's readers has instead taken different paths. They would rather continue to support MQA after the audio community at large had rejected it, exposing it's lies and deceitful practices.

    It would be so simple and honest for them to take the same position everyone did with lossy 2ch streaming and encourage a change to lossless Atmos, instead they stated,  "We should hope for its demise"!  What is this agenda they have? Maybe the time has come that Stereophile has outlived it's value to high end audio enthusiasts around the world and we should "hope for it's demise".  ;)

     

    As a side note Stereophile's main competitor in High End Audio,  "The Absolute Sound", has been dipping it's toes in Atmos music with some music reviews, etc; and in the Oct 2023, the magazines "Editor In Chief" Robert Harley wrote a great 8 page article on the building of his new Home Theater/Music Room.

     

    Some eyes are being opened.

    The futures so bright, I gotta wear shades

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    I love Atmos and hope it's here to stay.

    In the early 70's I went full on Quad, about the time I picked up a Stereophile subscription. After a few years I dropped it, then picked it up back again in the 80's then dropped it again.

    I will not make that mistake again. Multichannel is not on their minds, really never has been to any great extent, IIRC. Yes, there is one person that believes in the mch formats but by and large the mag seems stuck with people intent on denigrating anything not stereo. I don't get it, but no longer care as I've moved on with a 7.1.4 Atmos system.

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    Downunder there is close to zero interest, still. The two major retailers in my state only mention it in the context of the "other" audio experience - home theatre. And the major website that is based in our part of the world, Stereonet, only mentions Atmos in passing, in the posts ...

     

    So, if it's going to make the Big Time it's a slow start, for us. Whether it "sounds real", rather than just gimmicky, in a less than fully optimised, and expensive rig is the other question mark - I haven't come across anything live or on the net yet that shows signs of getting this reasonably good ...

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    12 minutes ago, fas42 said:

    And this article, https://www.afr.com/technology/true-surround-sound-technology-for-music-is-here-but-there-s-a-catch-20230828-p5dzvl, from a local reputable journal screams at me what the problem still is: the focus, how it's presented, is all about gimmickry, in what you hear ...

    This is part of the human problem. Who you’re listening to is a writer who visited Dolby labs rather someone, me, who has spent over 2,000 hours listening to all genres, talking with those who create it, and spending time in the studios. 
     

    You decide who’s more credible. 

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    26 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

    This is part of the human problem. Who you’re listening to is a writer who visited Dolby labs rather someone, me, who has spent over 2,000 hours listening to all genres, talking with those who create it, and spending time in the studios. 
     

    You decide who’s more credible. 

     

    I'm sure that your own listening space for immersive is of a high order. Because you've gone to the effort, taken the care, to "get it right". But if articles which are intended to enthuse potential buyers of new audio directions - and the readers of this journal are the 'serious' members of the community - send the message that it's all about fireworks and razzle dazzle, then it's highly likely that these people will settle back down with their carefully considered stereo setups, and think, "It's just another fad ..."

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    Just now, fas42 said:

     

    I'm sure that your own listening space for immersive is of a high order. Because you've gone to the effort, taken the care, to "get it right". But if articles which are intended to enthuse potential buyers of new audio directions - and the readers of this journal are the 'serious' members of the community - send the message that it's all about fireworks and razzle dazzle, then it's highly likely that these people will settle back down with their carefully considered stereo setups, and think, "It's just another fad ..."

     

    I was talking about what you think, not what others think. You said ...

     

    50 minutes ago, fas42 said:

    the problem still is: the focus, how it's presented, is all about gimmickry, in what you hear

     

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    1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

     

    I was talking about what you think, not what others think. You said ...

     

     

    Perhaps you misunderstood. I was talking of the fact that media coverage, etc, is about the Wow! factor of hearing Atmos. Which is less likely to encourage serious consideration of surround sound systems, by those with the money and interest to do it properly.

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    1 minute ago, fas42 said:

     

    Perhaps you misunderstood. I was talking of the fact that media coverage, etc, is about the Wow! factor of hearing Atmos. Which is less likely to encourage serious consideration of surround sound systems, by those with the money and interest to do it properly.

    I did misunderstand. I thought that was your take on it :~)

     

    My fault. 

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    I got my December issue of The Absolute Sound yesterday. Continuing their coverage of options for SOTA surround  sound was a review of the Audiopraise PRO HDMI Extractor box. For folks that worry over possible clocking issues with the multichannel HDMI interface and wishing to use ultra high quality external DAC's, this may be of interest. Chris I think your already doing something along these lines, as is member @Kal Rubinson .  Maybe a good piece for a AS review..

     

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    Chris C said, <quote>"What is an option, and has been THE option for audiophiles since the beginning of time, is accepting what the mass market selects and perfecting it. Shaking our fists, yelling at clouds, telling kids to get off our lawns, and hoping for something better is another way to go about it, but I’ll go with the much more enjoyable audiophile style of music reproduction. " </quote>

     

    I can't say I agree that audiophiles have ever "accepted" mass market selections and that is despite evangelistic attempts by some to persuade us we can't really hear the difference anyway, you know, if we're really honest, oh dear, lol. 

     

    I also can't agree that we have "perfected" playback of what was poor quality source material in the recording (although there is at least one eminent AS member that extols such magic endeavors with his well sorted rig 🙄).

     

    My impression is that audiophiles have chosen different paths when dealing with the inevitable shortcomings of recordings (or shortcomings of distributed media). Some focus on the music and not the gear, some listen through the bad bits (pun intended) to enjoy what a high fidelity system can do with the good bits, and some tend to color the presentation to their overall liking or by adding wow factors. I think however, its a fair point that Atmos is a different playback method entirely to stereo that can render music differently and potentially for the better in the ears of the beholder.

     

    I am not doubting that for some Atmos has opened up a whole new world of musical pleasure to experience and that is a wonderful thing. I still suspect it will be a hard sell for many audiophiles. I don't think it is necessary to get all tribal about it - us against them, (and IMO credit to Chris C who has not done this) .

     

    I will of course totally reserve judgement until I have had a chance to really listen, which is my old school way of assessing music. Its commercial success will likely depend on other things entirely. Time will tell if it is embraced or not.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

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    On 11/17/2023 at 1:14 AM, bobfa said:

    The magazine's title is Stereo---phile, which says it all. I am sure that, along with advertising money, this drives the culture in many ways. I have heard the same old tropes echoed in many other OLD locations. However, one of them started listening to Apple Music and Apple AirPods Pro 2, which tickled his brain a bit—my Hope Springs Eternal.

     

    I do not ever see myself going back to 2-channel only. Much more to come! 😁

    It is a misconception that stereo means (in audio also) 2 channel. It describes the spacial aspect. Stereo sound (meaning spatial sound) can be achieved from 2 sources to many more.....

    One of the main aspects of sound qualitiy, namely tonal accuracy, is vastly improved by surround set  ups with more than 2 loudspeakers, if the recorded material is made with the playback situation in mind. After more than 40 years in audio and music recording it is clear to me that even among people who enjoy music listening also for the sound aspect of it, they are mostly unaware what is possible and not really trying to achieve it.

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    I note that "spatial stereo" is now "a thing", actively promoted by companies. And on looking it up found these comments,

     

    Quote

    There have been stereo upmixing techniques since for ever. Nothing has yet beaten proper stereo sound for music.

     

    and

     

    Quote

    Fully agreed. I listened to a lot of Atmos music today. 90% I’d describe as “airy vocals with all other sounds pushed to the background”, 5% as “stereo but with some sounds gimmicky going from left to right” and 5% (mainly classical) where Atmos actually created a superior feel of space in the music.

     

    The former I agree with wholeheartedly. The latter is a bit disquieting, because it implies that the gimmicky side of things is still too prominent in the minds of producers of the recordings.

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    7 minutes ago, fas42 said:

    I note that "spatial stereo" is now "a thing", actively promoted by companies. And on looking it up found these comments,

     

     

    and

     

     

    The former I agree with wholeheartedly. The latter is a bit disquieting, because it implies that the gimmicky side of things is still too prominent in the minds of producers of the recordings.

     

    I read it on the internet, it must be true.

     

    - Abraham Lincoln

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    8 minutes ago, fas42 said:

    I note that "spatial stereo" is now "a thing", actively promoted by companies. And on looking it up found these comments,

     

     

    and

     

     

    The former I agree with wholeheartedly. The latter is a bit disquieting, because it implies that the gimmicky side of things is still too prominent in the minds of producers of the recordings.

     

    Again, perhaps I don't understnad what you're trying to say, but I've spent over 2,000 hours listening and I disagree with whomever said what you quoted.

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    Fas42 lives in some alternate reality with his high end boombox.

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    2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

     

    Again, perhaps I don't understnad what you're trying to say, but I've spent over 2,000 hours listening and I disagree with whomever said what you quoted.

     

    Really all I'm saying is that I suspect I will have a similar viewpoint to the second comment - unless I hear only those recordings which have been carefully engineered enough, on a setup which is 'faultless' in the ways I am sensitive to, then I will be too aware of the rig trying to impress me, rather than just deliver a musical experience.

     

    No alternate reality here, :). There are enough setups out there now which are accurate enough to deliver the goods, which I point to now and again in my video clips blog thread. This is the sort of thing I was looking for, and getting, decades ago - the interesting aspect is understanding why most rigs fail, and what is needed to make it happen ...

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    13 minutes ago, fas42 said:

     

    Really all I'm saying is that I suspect I will have a similar viewpoint to the second comment - unless I hear only those recordings which have been carefully engineered enough, on a setup which is 'faultless' in the ways I am sensitive to, then I will be too aware of the rig trying to impress me, rather than just deliver a musical experience.

     

    No alternate reality here, :). There are enough setups out there now which are accurate enough to deliver the goods, which I point to now and again in my video clips blog thread. This is the sort of thing I was looking for, and getting, decades ago - the interesting aspect is understanding why most rigs fail, and what is needed to make it happen ...

    In other words, you know what you want to believe and you’ll seek information to back it up. 

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    13 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

    In other words, you know what you want to believe and you’ll seek information to back it up. 

     

    Which implies I have an agenda, to demonstrate that surround sound is "not good enough". Which I don't. What I'm seeing so far, is that one has to be exposed to the "best examples" of Atmos, to see "what the fuss is about". If I come across an example of some album I know well, that is significantly improved in the presentation by being in Atmos, then I can cheerfully tick the Yes box, :). If a recording was designed from the start to be a surround sound experience then it's almost inevitable that reverting to stereo will lose a lot of its impact - but for albums created before the adoption of this technology I will have a question mark until I hear tracks that show otherwise ...

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    I just thought of an example of what would be fascinating, in Atmos: what is like being a musician, sitting in the middle of an orchestra, playing some major symphonic work?  Having the perspective of that person, what he experiences, would be really nifty to hear - and would be well worth going to the effort to record and hear through playback.

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