Magnepan 3.7: I give up

[Gregor Samsa]

I have owned MG II's, MG III's, MG 3.6's, and 20.1's. I just bought a CC3 to round out an all-Maggie surround system. I put Mye stands on my 20.1's last year, and they were revelatory. Anyone who call Maggies bass-shy who has not heard them with Mye stands has insufficient information. If you have Maggies without Mye stands, you haven't really heard them. You may still want a subwoofer, but you'll certainly want bass traps.

 

Oh, yes. Be sure to bring watts.

 

In case you're wondering, I have absolutely no relationship to Grant other than being a customer.

 

[bdiament]

In terms of mounting Maggies (or any other loudspeakers), my perspective was changed forever when I first tried "floating" mine on sets of well made roller bearings.

 

I'd always heard loudspeakers must be rigidly mounted to perform their best. After hearing Maggies "afloat", then hearing several other speakers in on-vs.-off demos of some Townshend Seismic Speaker Stands (a commercial way to "float" speakers), I realized it is the drivers that must be rigidly mounted on the baffle from which they launch their waves, not the body of the speaker rigidly mounted to the room in which it resides.

 

I'd used roller bearings under other gear and found consistent, repeatable benefits in every area of audio (and video) I know how to describe. I was not prepared for just how much impact they'd have on the performance of loudspeakers. As with the Townshend product, which accomplishes essentially the same thing (i.e. isolation), I would not have believed the differences had I not experienced them for myself. I described having the speakers standing on the floor as having them "bound and gagged" by comparison.

 

After putting the speakers back directly on the floor for comparison, a James Taylor recording sounded like James had a bit of a sore throat and the strings on his Martin needed changing. Replacing the roller bearing platform restored James crystal clear voice and the shimmer of the strings on his Martin.

 

And yes, bass extension and "punch" are two of the many benefits. But I still use a pair of subs below 30 Hz. And the subs too are "afloat".

 

Best regards,

Barry

www.soundkeeperrecordings.com

www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

[firedog]

I used to have a digital source that went through a digital crossover on its way to my subs and speakers

 

My experience is that if I set the the digital crossover to 40hz, the subs often had little, or nothing at all, to reproduce. Lots of recordings have little information all the way "down there", especially popular music.

 

So in practical terms, the 3.7s certainly may be able to go low enough to give satisfying reproduction of most recordings.

 

Additionally, a very well reproduced signal down to 35 or 40hz will sound like very good, satisfying bass to most of us, except possibly with certain instruments like pipe organs and some really deep bass drum/tympani thwacks. I think partly because most bass we hear reproduced isn't really that good, so when we hear it done really well, even without the very lowest notes, we respond positively.

 

[bdiament]

Hi firedog,

 

"...My experience is that if I set the the digital crossover to 40hz, the subs often had little, or nothing at all, to reproduce. Lots of recordings have little information all the way "down there", especially popular music..."

 

It depends of course on what one whats to achieve with their subs but in my view what you describe is exactly as it should be. I cross my subs over at 30Hz with my 3.6s and only want to hear the subs "speak" when the recording contains information in the bottom octave. Most recordings, particularly pop recordings, don't. In fact, many mastering engineers will use a high pass filter in their mastering chain; some at 40 Hz but I've known others who filtered higher up than that. (Some use this as a means of allowing for greater level on the final master.)

 

Then again, if one wants to hear their subs working most of the time, that is something else again. But to my ears, this would be a departure from the sound in the recording itself. Nothing wrong with that if it is the sound that gives one pleasure; it just isn't what I'd want. (I'm old enough to remember some folks' setting the color on their TVs a bit on the high side but it gave them viewing pleasure, even if it wasn't exactly natural.)

 

With subs, I like to set them so I can tell when I turn them off but not necessarily when they're on. I want the low frequencies in the recording and not an announcement from the subs. (In my room, which is fully treated acoustically, I measure +/- 1.5 dB to the bottom.)

 

Best regards,

Barry

www.soundkeeperrecordings.com

www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

 

[firedog]

Barry-

 

I wasn't trying to imply that the subs SHOULD be putting out lots of sound all the time, merely trying to point out that the Maggies "lack" of very low frequency response may not limit them in reproducing pretty much everything actually found on many recordings.

 

Thanks again for your insights.

 

[bdiament]

Hi firedog,

 

Understood. Sorry for my misinterpretation.

 

Best regards,

Barry

www.soundkeeperrecordings.com

www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

 

[bdiament]

Hi Paul,

 

"...Check our Barry D.'s Soundkeeper.com site for a ton of tips about Maggies, including how to place 'em...."

 

I'm grateful for the referral but the "Setting up your monitoring environment" article, along with the others are on the BDA site. (Click the "Articles" tab.) The Soundkeeper site is for my recordings.

 

Best regards,

Barry

www.soundkeeperrecordings.com

www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

 

 

 

[barrows]

with true subwoofers (crossed usually around 40 Hz) is that they add mostly to the depth and ambiance of good recordings, and the extra deep bass extension is really only occasionally noticeable, like organ pedals, tympani thwacks, low synth notes, etc. It is the extra ambiance retrieval where a good sub set up can really add to the performance of most (full range, or almost full range) speakers.

 

[bdiament]

Like the bottom octave ambience cues (if the recording preserves them) that tell you when a recording was made in a large (or very large) room.

 

Best regards,

Barry

www.soundkeeperrecordings.com

www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

 

[Paul R]

But it depends what system I am on if there are readily available or not.

Thanks for the correction!

 

 

[Part-Time Audiophile]

I'm now in the production queue! With luck, I'll have my order w/i 2 weeks!

 

[Part-Time Audiophile]

Who's there?

 

Your Magnepan 3.7 order, sir!

 

Yes indeedy, my brand spanking new pair of 3.7s are even now breaking in and have a grand total of 1 hour on them.

 

Guess what?

 

They sound amazing.

 

Yes, I know, give them 6 months to get them about 90% of the way broken in, but I have to say, I'm pretty stoked here on day one! The imaging is tight, the coherence is laudable, and quite frankly, they're only going to get better.

 

Hee hee!

 

[barrows]

way to keep your eye on the prize...

I cannot help but ask, which speaker cables have you selected for them?

 

[Paul R]

Persistence pays off!

 

Bet they are absolutely gorgeous Scott!

 

-Paul

 

[sdolezalek]

I'm now on my third set having finally moved up to the nirvana of the 20.1's. I thought I was done. But then came the CCR and the MMC2's as side and rear surrounds. And finally, another set of MMC2's as part of a tri-center configuration. Then, of course, came the power requirements to drive all that -- lots more Levinson amps - 800 watts per speaker. Maggies can not only do bass, they can do amazing things with well recorded movies. And then there was bliss.... :-)

 

Now, of course, Barry says add isolation (hard to resist), and then of course there is the new Mini for the office...

 

Enjoy your 3.7's, they just keep getting better; but they will also lead you further and further into high resolution files, betters DAC's, all the stuff that makes this site so great!!!

 

[Part-Time Audiophile]

Barrows: I haven't picked anything yet. Sometime next month, I'm planning to borrow what I can to do some head-to-head testing. I'm running Blue Jeans right now to very nice effect, but I wanted to break the speakers in just a bit (and get used to them) before swapping anything around.

 

I'm most interested in hearing the Nordost, Clarity Cables, & WyWires with these speakers.

 

[Part-Time Audiophile]

Paul, I'm gonna take some pics, but I need to motivate. I start staring at the speakers and then

 

[Part-Time Audiophile]

I loved the 20.1 too. They're a wonderful speaker. I think the 3.7 might edge them out in some ways, but the 20.1 gets them in others. To-may-to, to-mah-to.

 

I have a set of Mye Stands on order, too. I've asked Grant to drill out some extra mounting points so I can just screw in some Symposium Rollerblock Jrs to the stand. That'll "float" them pretty nicely.

 

But I have to say, they're pretty stable. I got the aluminum trim (matches my amp and pre -- ahem) and the speakers are fairly rigid and show no discernible sway or movement -- and that's with the stock stands.

 

I've also got a Berkeley Alpha USB on the way -- my gateway to the high-res files I've been haphazardly collecting over the last year. Looking forward to finally letting my Alpha DAC stretch its legs!

 

[Part-Time Audiophile]

 

Everything is kind of lying about as I'm also waiting on some additional bits for a new rack that will be off to the side. But the relevant players:

 

Magnepan 3.7 speakers

Plinius SA-Reference amp

Plinius Tautoro preamp

Berkeley Audio Alpha DAC

 

The black three-tube columns are some (probably unnecessary) Argent Room Lenses I "borrowed" from my father-in-law when he retired them out of his system.

 

I also have ASC Tube Traps in the corners (reflectors facing out), which the Maggies are firing into. The speakers are toed in directly to the listening position.

 

That center thing is/was an unused gas stove/fireplace that I've turned off and stuffed a ton of panels around and in front of.

 

[Paul R]

I seem to be anathema to cameras of any kind - pictures come out all goofy looking when I take them.

 

If the 3.7s are anything at all like the 1.7s, the difference that good cables make is gonna floor you. Just replacing a set of anti-cables (not bad cables at all) with an inexpensive set of Nordost Flatline Gold MK II cables left me with my jaw on the floor.

 

Those cables literally made as much positive difference as putting in the 1.7s. Nothing else in the system (except the speakers) has made as much difference. Which means I am now saving up for a higher end pair of Nordost cables.

 

-Paul

 

 

[Jim Smith]

Nice!

 

Have you tried moving the 3.7s a bit further out from the front wall, or is the space too tight to do so?

 

 

[Part-Time Audiophile]

Jim -- No, I can pull them a full 5' from the front wall should the need/interest arise, but I'm going to give them a month of play before I start dialing them in.

 

[Part-Time Audiophile]

Got some more pics up:

 

http://audiograb.wordpress.com/2011/08/11/hee-hee-first-day-with-my-new-magnepan-3-7-speakers/

 

[4est]

Do yourself a favor and listen to Jim, and move them out from the wall. Just ask Paul or Barry. You might also consider moving your tube traps away from the corners, more centered behind the direction of the back wave. The former is a guarantee, the latter is a guess. I removed my tube traps and installed a vertical absorber that I built. If I understand it correctly, you are trying to keep the rear waves from coming back to you w/o enough delay time. I angled mine in so that what is reflected (some highs splash off of the covering) heads toward the opposite corners (thereabouts).

 

Congratulations on your acquisition Scot.

 

[bdiament]

Hi Scot,

 

Looking good!

 

I very much concur with the idea of giving the speakers (a lot) more breathing room behind them. As I've said many times: "Every foot from the wall adds $1000 to the sound!"

 

As a starting point, I'd also move them closer to each other and increase the toe-in so they "meet" about a foot behind your head when you're at the listening position.

 

If you're interested, see this. (I hope it provides some food for audio thought.)

 

Lastly, I'd suggest rotating the Tube Traps so the "soft" side of each is aimed at the nearest speaker's tweeter. Reflections from the part of the room near the speakers should, in my view, be absorbed rather than diffused, which only guarantees they reach the listening position. I use diffusion for late[/i] reflections. One of the many nice things about a design like Tube Traps is by facing the soft side toward the speaker, diffusion (from the reflective side) is automatically applied to later reflections.

 

As Paul mentioned earlier, Nordost and Magnepan go together extraordinarily well, each being (in my view) exceptional in its category.

 

Most important of all: Have fun!

 

Best regards,

Barry

www.soundkeeperrecordings.com

www.barrydiamentaudio.com