The HD music fft atlas reference thread

[goldsdad]

"Do you have something to do with the Audacity developer team?"

 

No. I've only recently started using it, primarily to check supposed hi-res music. I seem to be very fortunate compared to some; my purchases from linnrecords.com are all genuine and sound superb. I do have one bad album, now withdrawn from HDTracks, but it was a gift so I have no proof of purchase and do not wish to look ungrateful to my benefactor by complaining (we say "don't look a gift horse in the mouth").

 

 

[wgscott]

Thanks to you both, I have learned a lot as a spectator.

 

[RobbieC]

Nicely done to you both. And all the while maintaining civility and respect for one another.

 

[thb]

Thought I would try showing a few more examples of recent downloads.

 

From HDTracks: Let it Bleed - The Rolling Stones

 

 

 

Here's the waveform:

 

 

And here's the spectrum:

 

 

I think it sounds better than the CD, although it's a little louder.

 

 

 

[thb]

From HDTracks: Jazz in the Key of Blue - Jimmy Cobb

 

 

 

 

Waveform:

 

 

 

 

Spectrum:

 

 

 

This sounds great.

 

[thb]

From Lancia Media Factory: Little Big Horn by Gerry Mulligan

 

 

 

 

Waveform:

 

 

 

 

Spectrum:

 

 

 

 

This sounds very good. It comes from a 1981 recording. From the Lancia web site:

 

Faithfully restored from the original analog master tapes and available on 180g audiophile-grade vinyl LP (includes free MP3 download), 24bit/96kHz Hi-Definition FLAC, and MP3

 

[thb]

From HDTracks: Gaucho - Steely Dan, Hey Nineteen

 

Waveform:

 

 

 

 

Spectrum:

 

 

 

 

Sounds good although it's compressed and there's not much info above 20K or so.

 

[thb]

Hey Nineteen ripped from CD:

 

Waveform:

 

 

 

 

Spectrum:

 

 

 

 

Sounds as good as the 24/96 download and much less compressed.

 

 

 

[JR_Audio]

Thank you Tom for comparing the CD and the HDTracks version of Steely Dans Hey Nineteen. It is a shame, that this is mainly a result of the loudness war. The HDTracks version has a higher level and shows clearly compression and limiting of the signal, compared to the CD version.

 

Beside noise, the only thing that is above 22 kHz is the clipping signal of the limiter. Really a shame, what is sold as High-Res with higher fidelity.

 

Juergen

 

[thb]

Yeah, I was very disappointed. I contacted HDTracks and received a response from them with a couple of screenshots from the mastering studio (see attached files below) that said:

 

"As you can see by the graphs there is energy way up to 30 kHz and above. The important thing to note is that if it was not 96kHz the energy you see above 30kHz would not exist. We feel confident that this demonstrates beyond a doubt that this album is true 96kHz/24bit, and we hope you feel the same."

 

In the future I will be very cautious buying old recordings labelled as high-res.

 

 

 

[wgscott]

Well, now at least we know how they do their quality control.

 

Either that, or they are counting on your inability to read a graph with a horizontal log axis.

 

[goldsdad]

Here are spectrograms of Hey Nineteen from 2010 Gaucho SACD. It has music up to 35kHz, not just noise above 21kHz like HDTracks version. And, more importantly IMO, it's more dynamic than HDTracks version.

 

 

 

 

 

[bulewee]

I want to put dvd on ipad.I have a mac computer.

mac dvd ripper

 

 

[catastrofe]

How can we get HDTracks to provide us with the content we expect when paying for hi-rez?

 

[goldsdad]

A good question.

Going by the case of Gaucho above, it would seem that someone at HDTracks considers nothing but noise above 21kHz to be hi-rez as long as that noise is in a hi-rez container.

 

 

[wgscott]

I have had the iTunes version of Roger Waters, In the Flesh, for about 9 months now, and I decided to upgrade to a lossless version. To my surprise, the concert DVD is less expensive than the CD ($11 on Amazon.com) so I bought it, and just ripped it on Windoze run in VMWare, using DVD Audio Extractor. The audio is available in 2 channel, with 20-bit, 48kHz, as well as 5.1 (which I understand is really 4 channel, but I have nothing to play it on). So I ripped the 2-channel to 24 bit, 48kHz. It seems to look ok. I dialed down the range to 100 db so you can see more clearly that this probably would have gone beyond 24 kHz had it been sampled higher than 48kHz. It seems to sound ok too. There is a second, encore, version of Brain Damage.

 

 

 

This is "Perfect Sense, Parts 1 and 2," which I like better than the studio version because he has the dub from 2001 at the beginning...

 

 

 

[Russell_L]

This time from The Classical Shop (Chandos). Here's the spectrum of the first track of the "Studio 96/24" file of Steve Reich's "Three Movements/The Desert Music" album:

 

 

 

Obviously there's a ceiling at about 22kHz; everything else above is, I believe, the usual DSD noise (this recording is available as an SACD). I'm guessing that the "hi-res" files were taken from the DSD master (though it would seem that the original recording was done in 44.1 and placed in a DSD "container" for SACD purposes). Disappointing....

 

Russell

 

[Russell_L]

I wrote to Chandos about this, and here's their response (from Ralph Couzens, no less):

 

Dear Mr. Low,

 

Thank you for your email bringing our attention to this matter. Your evidence is indeed worrying and I have instigated an investigation into this.

 

This product was bought in from outside engineers and the understanding was that is was a 24/96 master.

 

We will of course refund you the difference between Lossless and Studio files and I will disable the Studio version of this on our website.

 

Many thanks for help in this matter and apologies for the inconvenience.

 

With kind regards

 

Ralph Couzens

Managing Director

 

Chandos Records

The Classical Shop

 

----------------------------------

 

I'm very much OK with this response, and I'm glad they're doing the right thing, but it worries me that this stuff is still going on......

 

Russell

 

[kumakuma]

Like HDTracks, their approach seems to be wait until someone complains and then do something about it.

 

KK

 

[goldsdad]

I'd demand a full refund.

 

The processes of:

1. converting 44.1kHz material to DSD64 or DSD128, then

2. converting DSD to the 24-bit 96kHz PCM that they supplied,

have to have caused distortions.

 

 

[VandyMan]

>> Like HDTracks, their approach seems to be wait until someone complains

 

That is unfortunate, but I have found that HD Tracks customer service to be be very responsive on other issues that I've had.

 

[kumakuma]

That is unfortunate, but I have found that HD Tracks customer service to be be very responsive on other issues that I've had.

 

Yes, but many of the files should never have been for sale in the first place. It is obvious that no one has done any quality control on them. Fortunately, they aren't selling cars or electrical appliances.

 

KK

 

[firedog]

As far as Audacity, many posters have reported inconsistent results with hi-res files using version 1.2. AFAIK, version 1.3 works fine. I've tested it against other tools and gotten identical results.

 

That being said, based on past failures, I don't totally trust it for this task. The Free "Sonic Visualizer" seems to do a better job. As does Adobe Audition and it's predecessor, Cool Edit.

 

In any case, how do you interpret HDTracks graph against the one done at home of Gaucho? Hard for me to see the graph clearly, but it seems to show output well above 30K, no?

 

[Miska]

In any case, how do you interpret HDTracks graph against the one done at home of Gaucho? Hard for me to see the graph clearly, but it seems to show output well above 30K, no?

 

Without proper spectrogram it is really hard to tell if the higher frequencies contain just noise or clipping artifacts, especially in really coarse spectrums like 1/3rd octave ones.

 

Right tools for the task are essential as well as correct interpretation. And of course the tool needs to be used correctly. But at least posting spectrogram images leaves interpretation to the viewer.

 

From what I've compared, the results produced by latest Audacity 1.3 releases have been close enough to the results I get with various other tools.

 

 

[kumakuma]

@Miska

 

I agree that the right tools need to used in the right way but let's not forget that HDTracks is run by one of the top audiophile record companies out there (Chesky Records) .

 

I would expect them to use both their ears and available tools to check what they sell... before they sell it.

 

Obviously they are not doing this and are relying on customer complaints to find problems that they should have found before releasing these tracks. This is probably a more profitable business model but it is crappy customer service.

 

KK