Best DAC ever heard

[paulr]

The only one I've heard is the V-DAC. Makes it the best too.

Paul

 

[ted_b]

redbook sound on each architecture (NOS/Delta)?

 

[hamblis]

Lee, which dCS did you listen to? I think the Puccini is competitive with the equipment you list whilst Paganini and Scarlatti are a large step above.

 

The best DAC I've heard in an audition is the Paganini; the best in my system is the Puccini

 

[realhifi]

Wadia. Stone cold killer sound. But at around $8,000 it should be....and is.

 

[jerico]

... LOL, great comment!

 

[DiminishingReturnsOfficer]

The Marantz CD-12 DAC would be my choice by no small margin.

 

 

[Amused]

It'll have to be the Alpha for me. I haven't had an opportunity to listen to a dCS or one of Gordon's pricier offerings, but I'm sure they'd go toe to toe with the Alpha. Compared to its peers (the handful that I've had the privilege to demo), I found the Alpha to be more transparent and extended, whether by a wide or narrow margin.

 

[jstrouth]

Very interested in the AMR...would appreciate some additional comments on your experience.

Thanks!

 

[Ghasley]

My DAC journey over the years has covered some miles! Benchmark (ugh), the DAC section of two Cary CD players (306-200, 306 SACD), Wadia 581i, McIntosh MDA-1000, Audio Research DAC8, and most recently the Berkeley Alpha DAC. All were good at the time and were improved upon in the order I listed them although to my ears the DAC8 and the Berkeley were a toss up but very different flavors, different apples. I replaced the Berkeley with the Playback Designs MPD-3 and the improvement is not subtle. Since this isn't a review, i'll leave it there but it is a significant step up.

 

Is the MPD-3 the best DAC? Absolutely not! Since it slots in under the Playback Designs MPD-5 I will assume it is better.

 

Regardless of what DAC any of us have, the middle of the road DAC's today would have been state of the art 12 years ago when i started using my computer as a transport. Aren't we all fortunate to be enjoying this sort of sound quality? Who knew there was more music buried in those bits? peace.

 

[galtthedestroyer]

nothing has ever held a candle to DCS. of course I can't recall ever just hearing the DAC. I usually heard their transport connected to their upsampler converting CD's to DSD, then sending that to their DSD DAC, or SACD's sent directly to their DSD DAC. each component was about $10,000.

 

[Part-Time Audiophile]

I've heard -- and liked -- the dCS (both stack and stand alone), but while they're exemplary in the highs, I found their mids to be only "good" while their bass handling I found to be "meh". This is in comparison to an Esoteric, BTW.

 

Personally, I think the Alpha still has the best overall SQ. Great bass, rich mids, and sparkly treble. Some have commented that the treble is too "live" -- and to that I say, "try a better transport".

 

RE: Playback Designs. Whatever happened with those noise-floor measurements on Stereophile? Last I heard, they have simply been dismissed instead of addressed, a move which says to me that they not only have a problem but that they have no solution. I haven't been following the issue, so maybe this has been addressed/fixed since the review? Like I said, I haven't heard, but I'd need to, especially for a now-$17k product (at least for the 5 series). FWIW, it bugs me when a company just attempts to discredit a detractor instead of a) saying "mea culpa", b) moving to either correct perceived problems, or c) simply explain why they can't or won't. Denying it, or claiming that the testing methodology is flawed, strikes me as unhelpful.

 

I'm still very curious about the K-01/K-03 from Esoteric.

 

[dallasjustice]

I recently did a shootout of the Empirical Audio Overdrive (with every option including battery) and the Playback Designs MPS-5. I thought I knew what a great sounding DAC sounded like with the Empirical Audio stuff. Not anymore; the Playback dac is as analogue as any analogue I have ever heard. The most startling difference is with Redbook CDs. 16/44 is absolutely high resolution sounding. Of course higher resolution sounds better, but I no longer favor higher resolution files over redbook in my listening.

 

Streaming DSD is ridiculously lifelike.

 

[galtthedestroyer]

WAIT! what are you talking about!

 

[barrows]

"RE: Playback Designs

WAIT! what are you talking about!"

 

See stereophile.com in the reviews section of the Playback Designs SACD player, and read the measurements section. Pretty dissapointing performance as to the noise floor...

 

Best DAC... Hmmm. impossible to tell really, as hearing in different suystems it is hard to compare. I have heard, in no particular order:

 

dCS Scarlatti stack

dCS Debussy

emm labs, various

PS Audio PerfectWave

Pacific Microsonics Model 2

Ayre QB-9

Weiss Medea

Weiss Minerva/DAC 2

and on, and on...

 

At the time I was most impressed by the Weiss Medea, outstanding sound for a digital player. I am really curious to hear the Medea Plus (ESS chip, all new fully discrete analog section) via FireWire now...

Never was at all impressed with Esoteric, heard in a few systems...

The dCS stuff is always impressively resolute, but it always seems to be missing something as well... something I can not quite put my finger on... still, in the right system I could see how dCS might be "the answer"...

The PS PerfectWave, via the PerfectWave transport is really impressive, even in this kind of company, when the settings are right. Considering the price, an outstanding value.

Only briefly heard the Aesthetix Pandora, really want to listen to this again.

My DIY, Buffalo II based DAC is amazing, and keeps on improving, but references are hard to come by, so it is hard to tell where it might stand in relation to dCS/Weiss, etc. My opinion is that the ESS 9018 chip is for real when correctly implemented (which is not often done, as it is a demanding chip).

Need to spend some time with Playback Designs and familiar source material...

 

 

 

[barrows]

I have heard a lot of NOS DACs, and am not a fan. They sound great with very simple music, but anything complex trips them up and the sound gets totally congealed.

 

[bhobba]

If you think NOS DAC's always sound like that - get the Metrum Octave. When fed with the Off-Ramp or Wavelength (I have tried both and think the Off-Ramp is slightly better) it is simply the most accurate thing I have ever heard - it is as if the recording was transcribed to the speakers. But you know it is a recording. Compared to my reference DAC it did not sound as convincing in fooling you into thinking this is real - but as a device for letting you think you are hearing exactly what the recoding engineer intended it is unsurpassed.

 

Thanks

Bill

 

[esimms86]

barrows, how would you compare the Twisted Pear Buffalo II to the PS Audio Perfectwave system? I have the Perfectwave DAC and agree that it gives great bang for the buck, but I have little to compare it to, having only heard the Logitech Transporter and the Berkeley Alpha(which didn't impress me, albeit in a suboptimal setup that may have been the issue). I'm always interested to read posts by people who own more than one hi res DAC. If I were to purchase a DAC on a lark it would be the Buffalo II (or III) since it so relatively inexpensive. As it stands, right now I'm on the edge of springing for the Phasure NOS asynchronous DAC purely as an act(and leap) of faith.

 

Esau

 

[bernardl]

The integrated DAC of the Devialet.

 

Cheers,

Bernard

 

 

[barrows]

I do not own a PerfectWave, and have not made direct (A/B) comparisons. Considering that the Buffalo is a DIY design, and hence every version will sound different, it is really impossible to make these kind of comparisons. No one has a Buffalo with the same build as mine, and my experience has proven that power supplies, layout, parts selection, and most of all, source, all play a huge part in how a DIY DAC is going to perform.

By memory, I am very confident in saying that the performance of my current build, being fed from my current battery powered, internal, USB-I2S interface, from Pure Music with integer mode, sounds better than the PerfectWave DAC via the PerfectWave Transport. But, my current build, if offered as a commercial product, would have to retail for for at least $9K, perhaps more, considering the parts costs, and complexity of the power supplies.

In general, if one is motivated to learn, and willing to experiment. I am confident that performance of the highest level is possible starting with the Buffalo II (now III)-but it will require a lot of work and experimentation to get there. The real beauty of the DIY approach, is that the DAC can be built exactly to suit your needs, and tuned to compliment the rest of your system perfectly.

 

[esimms86]

barrows, thanks for your reply. It's interesting that a relatively inexpensive DAC can be tweaked to a point where it goes up in cost by easily over an order of magnitude after all the experimenting and spending(read R&D and "man hours," with no sexist intent). Of course, that's the beauty of the hobby, i.e., fiddling with the system seemingly endlessly until you get at least close to where you want it, and perhaps not stopping even then. I'm not particularly handy and so have never been bitten by the DIY bug although I have crawled too far down the rabbit hole in designing(not building but having them built for me)a few custom guitars.

 

Esau

 

[barrows]

Having worked in the industry a bit I have a pretty good understanding of how retail prices are generally set.

Even a bog stock Buffalo III build, with Twisted Pear's simple Ivy output stage, two Placid power supplies, and two toroidal transformers, with the stock Twisted Audio kit supplied parts (this is the most basic build possible with their kits) and a fairly basic chassis design, would end up costing around $3K-$4K at retail.

As another example, the clock module on the Buffalo II (and III) is a part that costs about ten times what the normal clock in most $2K or so DACs costs. So do not think that the stock build quality with the Twisted Pear stuff is all that basic!

 

[kana813]

"I do not own a PerfectWave, and have not made direct (A/B) comparisons."

 

"By memory, I am very confident in saying that the performance of my current build, being fed from my current battery powered, internal, USB-I2S interface, from Pure Music with integer mode, sounds better than the PerfectWave DAC via the PerfectWave Transport."

 

LOL!!!!

 

[barrows]

""I do not own a PerfectWave, and have not made direct (A/B) comparisons."

 

"By memory, I am very confident in saying that the performance of my current build, being fed from my current battery powered, internal, USB-I2S interface, from Pure Music with integer mode, sounds better than the PerfectWave DAC via the PerfectWave Transport."

 

LOL!!!!"

 

Why LOL? Are you aware that I worked for PS Audio during the development of the PerfectWave DAC, and have spent many hours listening to it, both in the PS Audio listening room, and at CES (in a demo system of my own design), and at RMAF both last year and the year the year before. I have more hours listening to the PerfectWave DAC than any other DAC besides my current one. And I have listened to the PerfectWave DAC in my own system as well, just not at the same time I had my present DAC here (which is an ongoing project, and continues to improve).

I am quite confident that my current set up outperforms the PerfectWave. This is not any criticism of the PerfectWave (now a Golden Ear award winner from TAS) which I feel offers an incredible level of performance for the money (in a proper setup).

 

Kana: if you can put in the time, DIY can be very rewarding, as consistent development can reap big benefits compared with the production model of commercial manufacturers. Additionally the ability to tweak a DIY DAC to exactly suit the needs of a single system can bring big benefits.

 

 

 

[PeterSt]

Oh yeah...

I have heard a lot of NOS DACs, and am not a fan. They sound great with very simple music, but anything complex trips them up and the sound gets totally congealed.

 

My little knowlegde of english grammar tells me that you must be talking about that lot of NOS DACs *you* heard, and that *those* trip up on complex music.

 

Of course you could let me know which DACs that were, but it really isn't necessary if we only have our theories straight. I don't need to say more, I hope.

 

... But you also know that other theory of mine ... the one that tells that *any* OS DAC turns violins into flutes, and totally breaks up at bursts of high transients.

I can imagine that both phenomena are not easy to check without a reference, although a violin-for-real must tell something. Still people tend to think that "this is it" because it won't get better anyway. The high transient stuff is much more difficult to hold against a reference, because this almost always will be about synth stuff, and even at breaking up you will think it it correct. With reference, you will laugh yourself to death (of what happened to *your* DAC).

 

In the end it is about accuracy indeed. So, when you start to recognize how accuracy as such works out, only then we can talk further.

No stupid stuff like "we have to agree we disagree" is in order here. Why ? because you did not listen. Oh, you listened to those NOSes allright, but I'm sure you know how my theories go, and that we thus don't need to talk about those DACs.

 

Barrows, of course I mean well and normally I would have let it be in here. But I'm in the defence of that person who is waiting for an "NOS", plus I have a most explicit opinion about this all. Ah, you knew that. :-)

 

Kind regards,

Peter

 

[kana813]

Barrows,

 

I don't want a DAC that upsamples everything.

 

I've spend a lot time comparing the Weiss DAC 202(ESS Sabre) to the PWD and prefer the PWD.

 

"I am quite confident that my current set up outperforms the PerfectWave."

 

I really don't care how many hours you've spent in the PS Audio listening room. I am quite confident, that unless you do a head to head comparison with the same source, you really can't say that your DIY DAC outperforms the PWD. I don't think your memory is that good.

 

"Why LOL?" You seem to want to be the "expert" on this forum. LOL!