Digital player without DAC for local music

[apodemus]

Hello everybody!

 

I'm looking for a device which will be used for locally stored music on SSD/HDD. I'm struggling to find such a device with really good smartphone app. I need full support for FLAC files and tags, covers, searching, queues and playlists. For example Lumin does not provide that, there is no USB support. I don't have a NAS and I'm not planning to use one so I need full support for USB attached drive to the device. I don't care about streaming services, only my library. I need coax or aes/ebu output, not usb, to connect to my DAC.

 

I'm searching for some time now and it is really not that easy to find such a device. Are decent app and USB support really that rare?

[The Computer Audiophile]

7 minutes ago, apodemus said:

Hello everybody!

 

I'm looking for a device which will be used for locally stored music on SSD/HDD. I'm struggling to find such a device with really good smartphone app. I need full support for FLAC files and tags, covers, searching, queues and playlists. For example Lumin does not provide that, there is no USB support. I don't have a NAS and I'm not planning to use one so I need full support for USB attached drive to the device. I don't care about streaming services, only my library. I need coax or aes/ebu output, not usb, to connect to my DAC.

 

I'm searching for some time now and it is really not that easy to find such a device. Are decent app and USB support really that rare?

Look at Aurender. 

[apodemus]

4 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Look at Aurender. 

Yeah, Aurender is a little bit too "hi-end" for me. I need something more "reasonably" priced to pair with my TDAI-3400.

[AudioDoctor]

So, you want just a streamer with USB output?

 

Perhaps you can look at Volumio? They may have something that does what you're looking for. I am sure there are others as well that I can't remember right now.

[AudioDoctor]

I just realized that you can make one of these with HQP OS and JPLAY for iOS. Add in a JCAT USB card and you'd likely have one heck of a player. Put it all in a fanless case, doesn't necessarily need to be super high powered unless you want it to be.

[Cebolla]

On 12/8/2023 at 10:57 PM, apodemus said:

I'm looking for a device which will be used for locally stored music on SSD/HDD. I'm struggling to find such a device with really good smartphone app. I need full support for FLAC files and tags, covers, searching, queues and playlists. For example Lumin does not provide that, there is no USB support. I don't have a NAS and I'm not planning to use one so I need full support for USB attached drive to the device. I don't care about streaming services, only my library. I need coax or aes/ebu output, not usb, to connect to my DAC.

On 12/8/2023 at 11:11 PM, apodemus said:

Yeah, Aurender is a little bit too "hi-end" for me. I need something more "reasonably" priced to pair with my TDAI-3400.

 

???

 

You don't actually have just a 'DAC' with your TDAI-3400 - it has a built-in fully capable network audio file player:

https://lyngdorf.steinwaylyngdorf.com/lyngdorf-tdai-3400/

 

 

Why are you choosing to use an external FLAC file player with all the issues which come with having to tether it by cable to the TDAI-3400's DAC, when you can use its own FLAC file player which has the ideal shortest most direct internal connection to its DAC?

[DuckToller]

2 hours ago, Cebolla said:

 

???

 

You don't actually have just a 'DAC' with your TDAI-3400 - it has a built-in fully capable network audio file player:

https://lyngdorf.steinwaylyngdorf.com/lyngdorf-tdai-3400/

 

 

Why are you choosing to use an external FLAC file player with all the issues which come with having to tether it by cable to the TDAI-3400's DAC, when you can use its own FLAC file player which has the ideal shortest most direct internal connection to its DAC?

@apodemus

I agree with Cebolla, all you need (this is the most simple solution) is an USB drive connected to your network router, which would allow you to edit your audio library on the disk from your PC i.e. with MP3tag. The TDAI 3400 will read from the network router, which functions as NAS in this case.
Alternatively,  you can start with an RPI4 / 5 as additional file server / music server in your network and use LMS as an option to manage your files (kind of more complicated). Or Volumio, easy but payware if you want external access. Or look at Allo producs (Service a bit questionable)
Or build a tiny PC with the options mentioned by @AudioDoctor.
Off the shelf streamers are plenty, but most of them offer the options you already have.

If you are using the excellent Room Perfect DRC , the difference between a streamer over network vs. USB connected device vs. Coax / AES-EBU output device reading from an USB attached SSD/NVME/HDD seems to be neglible to my ears - if your network is reliable, secure and modern. YMMV.

 

edit: revisiting the manual the page 12 caught my eye.

I had that device in my system in 2020, but used only network-based media streaming with Roon - back then

 

[ecwl]

On 12/8/2023 at 5:11 PM, apodemus said:

Yeah, Aurender is a little bit too "hi-end" for me. I need something more "reasonably" priced to pair with my TDAI-3400.

Do you have a specific budget?

 

I presume the reason why you didn’t just plug your external SSD/HDD into TDAI-3400 to play the files is because the user-interface to choose the music you want is not great?

 

To me, as @DuckToller pointed out, a great user interface would be Roon but if Aurender is too expensive, I suspect Roon would be too expensive too? Not sure.

 

My local Lyngdorf dealer actually just use a very simple setup I recommended to him. He runs JRiver on his store/work laptop and he uses his iPhone/iPad’s JRemote app to choose which song to send to Lygndorf’s uPNP for playback. I can’t remember how good it is for gapless playback.

 

All of this is done via the network because there is generally less noise using Ethernet playback, rather than connecting a separate device to Lyngdorf using coax or AES/EBU.

[stefano_mbp]

11 minutes ago, ecwl said:

I can’t remember how good it is for gapless playback.

JRiver/UPNP is definitely gapless … if the UPNP renderer is compatible (SOtM sms200/MPD and rpi4/RoPieee/MPD in my setup)

[Cebolla]

The Lyngdorf's player definitely supports gapless playback, including when operating its UPnP renderer (using UPnP's gapless support mechanism which also requires the UPnP controller app to support gapless).

[Cebolla]

1 hour ago, ecwl said:

I presume the reason why you didn’t just plug your external SSD/HDD into TDAI-3400 to play the files is because the user-interface to choose the music you want is not great?

 

Possibly, but that doesn't explain why the OP completely ignores the TDAI-3400's own player.

 

 

1 hour ago, ecwl said:

To me, as @DuckToller pointed out, a great user interface would be Roon but if Aurender is too expensive, I suspect Roon would be too expensive too? Not sure.

 

Plenty of much cheaper if not free media server and controller software that can be used with the Lyngdorf - my zero cost choice would be the Logitech Media Server, suitably configured for UPnP renderer control support & a pretty decent user interface via the UPnP/DLNA Bridge, Material Skin and Music & Artist information 3rd party LMS plugins.

[ecwl]

3 minutes ago, Cebolla said:

Plenty of much cheaper if not free media server and controller software that can be used with the Lyngdorf - my zero cost choice would be the Logitech Media Server, suitably configured for UPnP renderer control support & a pretty decent user interface via the UPnP/DLNA Bridge, Material Skin and Music & Artist information 3rd party LMS plugins.

Definitely. Except my local audio dealer is >75 years old so he needed a simpler plug and play setup. That’s why I recommended JRiver/JRemote. Of course, “simpler” is relative. I’m pretty sure if I am 75 years old, I would be able to try your LMS suggestion myself as that’s what I used to use about a decade ago.

 

Anyway, it’ll be interesting to see what @apodemus ends up settling on for the final system.

[DuckToller]

 

23 minutes ago, Cebolla said:

 

Possibly, but that doesn't explain why the OP completely ignores the TDAI-3400's own player.

 

 

 

Plenty of much cheaper if not free media server and controller software that can be used with the Lyngdorf - my zero cost choice would be the Logitech Media Server, suitably configured for UPnP renderer control support & a pretty decent user interface via the UPnP/DLNA Bridge, Material Skin and Music & Artist information 3rd party LMS plugins.

For LMS, a simple RPI4 attached via Etherrnet or wifi to the Router would fit. It's a fairly affordable solution and does the job very well - and it gives you options. However, it's not an off the shelf solution.
If I look at @Archimago's streamer comparisons I can't see any numbers within the reported RPI performance that would aggravate my audiophile nervosa ;-) in order to go off-the-shelf.

[botrytis]

No matter what one picks for streaming, it does take some learning and patience to get it all working. 

[DuckToller]

20 minutes ago, botrytis said:

No matter what one picks for streaming, it does take some learning and patience to get it all working. 

If the OP is more fluent with PC solutions,

Daphile on a x86 mini PC could be another option, easy to install and a couple of LMS features.

"Since Daphile is used and configured completely via the web interface the user is not required to have any Linux skills."

[botrytis]

1 hour ago, DuckToller said:

If the OP is more fluent with PC solutions,

Daphile on a x86 mini PC could be another option, easy to install and a couple of LMS features.

"Since Daphile is used and configured completely via the web interface the user is not required to have any Linux skills."

 

Daphile is easy to install, the directions they give on how to do it, not so much.

 

Since Daphile is based on Linux, it doesn't like my Gustard R-26 DAC (ver 1.42) otherwise I would use it.

[DuckToller]

35 minutes ago, botrytis said:

 

Daphile is easy to install, the directions they give on how to do it, not so much.

 

Since Daphile is based on Linux, it doesn't like my Gustard R-26 DAC (ver 1.42) otherwise I would use it.

Obviously no need for DAC drivers with the TDAI 3400 when playing over network and using it as NAS, controlled via tablet.

 

[botrytis]

13 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

Obviously no need for DAC drivers with the TFAI 3400 when playing over network and using it as NAS, controlled via tablet.

 

 

Not how I have it setup, so there is that. 😁

[ytsamlee]

Intel atom mini PC + usb audio interface  maybe your option,install mpd+mpdclient+upnp renderer on ubuntu/debain.

[apodemus]

Wow, thank you all so much for all the answers! Let me reply to some of those:

 

On 12/10/2023 at 2:04 PM, Cebolla said:

You don't actually have just a 'DAC' with your TDAI-3400 - it has a built-in fully capable network audio file player:

On 12/10/2023 at 6:03 PM, Cebolla said:

Possibly, but that doesn't explain why the OP completely ignores the TDAI-3400's own player.

 

I'll describe what I tried and what are my thoughts on it:

 

1. USB drive connected to TDAI - Lyngdorf's app can play music from USB, but there is no search bar or any other function related to choosing music easily, this app is not made for this. Its purpose is to control volume, choose voicing, or use RoomPerfect mode

 

2. USB drive connected to my router - this also works, I can play music to 3400 using the mConnect app, there is a search bar etc. But I have pretty basic router provided by my ISP and it has very poor music server in it, if I can even call it music server. This means no tags support, no covers in mConnect etc

 

3. Roon - I tried Roon. I installed Roon on my PC as a core, trial license. And it is absolutely fantastic, great responsive UI, every feature I'd ever need. Downside of Roon for me is that it has way more than I need, I don't need streaming, I don't need DSP, I don't need multiroom. So I don't really feel that comfortable paying for such a advanced software which I would use only in 10%. On top of that, it would be necessary to buy an Intel NUC to set it up. So another device in the chain.

 

Daphile/LMS are on the far back of the list, I'd like to have something low maintenance that does not require multiple hours of research or set-up.

 

Let me put it this way: I know what are the capabilities of 3400 but features to handle FLAC files on USB are terrible and basically no existent. The whole problem exists just because of the decent app to control and browse music. Perfect solution would be something Roon like but just it's interface, responsiveness, search, browse, choose options.

 

I hope all of this makes sense :)

[ecwl]

15 minutes ago, apodemus said:

Let me put it this way: I know what are the capabilities of 3400 but features to handle FLAC files on USB are terrible and basically no existent. The whole problem exists just because of the decent app to control and browse music. Perfect solution would be something Roon like but just it's interface, responsiveness, search, browse, choose options.

Yes. That’s why I recommended JRiver. A bit cheaper than Roon. You still get most of the functionality. 
 

And you have an iPad/iPhone app called JRemote that you can use to control JRiver if you want.
 

I believe you can demo JRiver but not JRemote. Just to make sure the program fits your needs. 

[DuckToller]

The simplest/cheapest approach - imho - would be using Volumio on a RPI reading your USB storage. Either use the Volumio app or  Bubble UPnP.

Beyond that hardware invest is always the first decision. As the next step you'll find the option of i2s output with pi2dedign.

https://www.pi2design.com/pi2aes.html

[apodemus]

4 minutes ago, ecwl said:

I believe you can demo JRiver but not JRemote. Just to make sure the program fits your needs. 

And iOS app is most important factor in my case, shame I cannot demo it.

[chrisc]

What about the Mede8er products?

 

We used a MED600X3D to play music off a SD card at our club's audio expo back in September

It has analogue out, HDMI, LAN and Optical in.  Uses a 12V power supply.  This was coupled with Chinese 100 w/ch class D amp

 

Worked very well.  You control it with a remote

[DuckToller]

37 minutes ago, chrisc said:

What about the Mede8er products?

 

We used a MED600X3D to play music off a SD card at our club's audio expo back in September

It has analogue out, HDMI, LAN and Optical in.  Uses a 12V power supply.  This was coupled with Chinese 100 w/ch class D amp

 

Worked very well.  You control it with a remote

allow me to respond:

The TDAI3400 itself is  DAC / AMP / STREAMER concept and works with DRC (RoomPerfect). It also has an SD card slot.

IIRC, the OP is in search for a file serving solution that works with IOS devices as control instance in the way he likes.

@apodemusTo the OP: You may want to test the JPLAY app on IOS (in order to undestand if it can read your files at the USB input of the Lyngdorf). From there you could step up your file server options or simply attach a cheap NAS solution to your network if you haven't got the need for HQP or ROON.