The Dreaded Washing Machine

[Citrus]

The curse of audio.

very interest if anyone has views on this one

I recently installed a dedicated main to my system using Beldon active earth screened cable. Good improvement in clarity. Yum) The Active earth was connected to the plug end not socket so nearest to the CU

I was very surprised to hear my Bifrost 2 starting to hum when the machine cycle was on?

The only thing I can think of is may be the dedicated main was not dedicated enough, so it really needed a separate CU as well? (CU consumer unit or fuse box what ever you want to call it!)

May be the terroidals are far more sensative than I first thought?

C.

 

[NOMBEDES]

I blame Brexit.

[MarcelNL]

why would you connect the earth to the plug side and not the other side? Anything in the form of noise that is picked up in the shield should be directed away from your device,

 

 

[fas42]

All electricals in a home are the spawn of the devil, until proven otherwise, . Actually, the real issue is that the engineering of audio components is not good enough, and they allow noise and interference to impact their audible behaviour. Either you put up with this, or shut down all the non-audio stuff while doing serious listening, or work out ways to improve what should have been done by the manufacturers. The last option can be be hard work, and take years to to work out a 'perfect' solution - it all depends upon how seriously you take this ...

 

One thing I can guarantee is that there will be no magic bullet - unless you're really, really lucky - the more resolving a rig, the more likely this will become a problem that needs to be dealt with ... only persistence, and being willing to try anything may be needed to get an optimum result, .

[Allan F]

26 minutes ago, fas42 said:

One thing I can guarantee is that there will be no magic bullet - unless you're really, really lucky - the more resolving a rig, the more likely this will become a problem that needs to be dealt with ... only persistence, and being willing to try anything may be needed to get an optimum result.

Bullfeathers!

[yamamoto2002]

I read somewhere, in Japan, every sound recording studio has dedicated isolation transformer for their refrigerator. And I think washing machine is similar to or may be a bit worse than refrigerator

[fas42]

Refrigerators are a particularly, electrically, noisy device. Our unit is on the same mains circuit as the audio system, and it was very useful as a way of checking whether my filtering and conditioning methods were satisfactory. Same goes for a suite of switching power supplies feeding all the visual media gear, literally plugged into a neighbouring socket to that of the audio. So, solutions are possible - makes no difference to our SQ if these noisemakers are in, or out of circuit - which certainly wasn't the case when I first started checking these factors.

 

Why not just change the electrical arrangements in the house, to avoid having to do this? Say, adding an isolation transformer to a fridge? Because, sometimes you're caught ... you have no control over something nearby which generating enough disturbing energy to cause you grief; you can't do anything directly to the actual culprit, to improve matters. So, the best solution is to build a solid protection 'shield' around your gear; then you can move it anywhere; and if anything new or unexpected turns up where your rig is now, this has no effect ...

[sphinxsix]

1 hour ago, fas42 said:

All electricals in a home are the spawn of the devil, until proven otherwise

 

54 minutes ago, yamamoto2002 said:

I read somewhere, in Japan, every sound recording studio has dedicated isolation transformer for their refrigerator.

 

7 minutes ago, fas42 said:

Refrigerators are a particularly, electrically, noisy device.

 

I also blame Brexit.

 

 

You think I'm joking.?

 

Additional red tape and customs declarations means electricity will no longer flow as smoothly as it used to when the UK was a full member of the European Union

 

😎

[yamamoto2002]

30 minutes ago, sphinxsix said:

 

 

 

I also blame Brexit.

 

 

You think I'm joking.?

 

Additional red tape and customs declarations means electricity will no longer flow as smoothly as it used to when the UK was a full member of the European Union

 

😎

 

Ring Circuit, UK unique electrical wiring method to save copper, may contribute this mess further to people in UK ...

 

US electrical wiring is 1Φ3W so it is possible to connect washing machine to S1 circuit and audio to S2 circuit to alleviate noise problem.

[sphinxsix]

23 minutes ago, yamamoto2002 said:

Ring Circuit, UK unique electrical wiring method to save copper, may contribute this mess further to people in UK ...

 

I can clearly see the connection between British 'uniqueness' and Brexit.. 😉

 

[Speedskater]

What is:

Beldon active earth screened cable?

or

Belden active earth screened cable?

and how and where is it connected?

[One and a half]

It looks like the dedicated line's earth is better (lower impedance) than before when plugged into the wall as is. The Bifrost has a 9V dc supply? The washing machine which contains variable speed drives, and a host of other complex menu digital systems, is looking for a path that's 'easy' and has found the Bitfrost. 

Try to earth the power supply for the Bifrost, ifi have an adapter where an earth connection can go to.

Other than that, perhaps the ring main you guys have in the UK has a weak earth connection and may need attention by an electrician.

You don't need another 'CU' or Sub-board, that won't cure the noise.

[yamamoto2002]

 

5 hours ago, One and a half said:

Other than that, perhaps the ring main you guys have in the UK has a weak earth connection and may need attention by an electrician.

I agree, Ask local electrician to resolve the problem. Install electrical noise suppression filter to washing machine or isolation transformer or something other effective measure they think.

[Cebolla]

On 11/25/2022 at 6:06 PM, NOMBEDES said:

I blame Brexit.

 

and here was me thinking this thread was going to be about those Russian supplied washing machines of dubious origin.

[MarcelNL]

somehow I doubt that the earth is the issue, if everything is working properly earth is not carrying any current whatsoever. If the fridge, washing machine show current on the casing which should be connected to earth there is an issue that needs to be resolved. The IMO more likely culprit is the washing machine motor creating spikes, which can be suppressed by connecting a filter circuit over the motor. Noise filter modules do exist and can easily be installed in the washing machine. Searching for 'washing machine noise filter' gets you several hits.

[yamamoto2002]

I'm not sure if it is legally okay for your country to install it without electrician license. In Japan it depends on the type of installation work.

[NOMBEDES]

12 hours ago, Cebolla said:

 

and here was me thinking this thread was going to be about those Russian supplied washing machines of dubious origin.

 

Wow.  Brexit and Russia.  @Cebolla you might be on to something.  

[sphinxsix]

5 hours ago, yamamoto2002 said:

I'm not sure if it is legally okay for your country to install it without electrician license.

 

Could be more fun for everybody here, don't spoil it.. 

 

[Citrus]

Thanks Guys

Sounds like the noice filter is the thing.

 

Bye the way… How did you know the name of my band?

 

‘Brexit and the Russian Washing Machines’

 

Need a base player if you know anyone (and a drummer and a lead guitarist and a vocalist and a keyboard player and….

but apart from that the band is amazing : )

 

[sphinxsix]

2 hours ago, Citrus said:

Need a base player

 

I play bass but it's a base level, I also sing but only when hot water pours onto my head from above (so we could potentially save on reverb effect!) don't know if that's enough though..

 

[Citrus]

Your in!

I can play an angle grinder and cordless drill but only in ‘C major’

Yes its bass not base : )

 

[sphinxsix]

49 minutes ago, Citrus said:

Your in!

 

Ok, just one thing..

 

5 hours ago, Citrus said:

did you know the name of my band?

‘Brexit and the Russian Washing Machines’

 

I guess you want to be Brexit and I'm supposed to be one of the Russian Washing Machines, right.? 😏

 

[Citrus]

Is there any other way to look at it!!!!   : )

Actually looks like its narrow down to Brexit and The R Machine (singular)

sounds kind a niffty : ) 

[sphinxsix]

6 minutes ago, Citrus said:

Is there any other way to look at it!!!!   : )

Actually looks like its narrow down to Brexit and The R Machine (singular)

sounds kind a niffty : ) 

 

May I propose Brexit and The R Against the Machine.? 

Or maybe simply Brexit and R Against M..(?)

Or even simpler B and R against M.?

 

[fas42]

B and R against M? BRM? You mean, like this,

 

 

Could a washing machine band sound like this ... ?

 

 

Whoops!!! ... wrong thread ...