Article: The Value Proposition in Audio: It's Not Your Father's Class D

[bluesman]

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[The Computer Audiophile]

As usual @bluesman, well researched and very informative. Thank you!

 

I'm sure many will be interested in your take on the Purifi Eigentakt modules, but perhaps that's not the price point you were going for with this article. 

[bluesman]

5 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

As usual @bluesman, well researched and very informative. Thank you!

 

I'm sure many will be interested in your take on the Purifi Eigentakt modules, but perhaps that's not the price point you were going for with this article. 

They're a bit costly to be considered value pieces at the entry level.  But even at $1k for the module, they may represent great vaue in the high end market.  When I sell my Rogers LS3/5a monitors (currently posted in the classifieds), I'll get a stereo board and build a monitor system with them to see how good they are.

 

For interest, here's the basic spec sheet on the 425 W unit:

 

[PeterG]

Thanks for the great review.  I especially appreciate that you've done clear comparisons against traditional amps, and have skipped the chip-on-the-shoulder attitude that pops up too often in Class D discussions

[bluesman]

17 hours ago, PeterG said:

Thanks for the great review.  I especially appreciate that you've done clear comparisons against traditional amps, and have skipped the chip-on-the-shoulder attitude that pops up too often in Class D discussions

I'm so glad you found it useful.  The only thing preconceived notions can accomplish is to prevent the possessor from learning and improving.  The most important thing is what we hear, not the path it followed to get there.  😀

[PYP]

A very interesting review.  I had no idea that the kind of performance you discussed was possible at this price, although the Shiit Audio gear, which I haven't heard myself, gives a sense of what is available at lower price points (however, seemingly made in U.S.).  

[botrytis]

Don't forget Benchmark. Built in good ol' Syracuse, NY. Just up the road from McIntosh in Binghampton, NY.

[bluesman]

34 minutes ago, PYP said:

A very interesting review.  I had no idea that the kind of performance you discussed was possible at this price, although the Shiit Audio gear, which I haven't heard myself, gives a sense of what is available at lower price points (however, seemingly made in U.S.).  

Thanks! I'm a professional musician.  My jazs trio plays every Thursday night at a local club, and I record as many of my shows as I can with my TASCAM DR40x recorder.  I was able to get our entire show last night, and I edited the raw file into tracks this morning.  I then sat in the living room with my coffee and listened to it all, since I make these recordings to find ways to improve my playing, my tone, and my band.

 

So I'm sitting there paying close attention to the music and thinking how happy I am with my Prima Luna amp and Focal speakers........when I realize that I still have the little Douk in the system, not the Prima Luna.  I was marveling at the clarity and realism of the drum kit - the cymbals really sounded fantastic and alive, with the small and the large ride cymbals easily distinguishable.  The kick drum was right there and the snare was tight and crisp. 

 

The bass player plays a very interesting electric upright that he designed and muanfactures (the Kydd Bass).  It sounds great live and it sounds just as great in my living room today through the Douk.  I'm still blown away by the sound quality I can get from  a $129 amplifier!  It may not be quite up there with its 4 and 5 figure cousins, but it's very very good!

[PYP]

2 hours ago, bluesman said:

Thanks! I'm a professional musician.  My jazs trio plays every Thursday night at a local club, and I record as many of my shows as I can with my TASCAM DR40x recorder.  I was able to get our entire show last night, and I edited the raw file into tracks this morning.  I then sat in the living room with my coffee and listened to it all, since I make these recordings to find ways to improve my playing, my tone, and my band.

 

So I'm sitting there paying close attention to the music and thinking how happy I am with my Prima Luna amp and Focal speakers........when I realize that I still have the little Douk in the system, not the Prima Luna.  I was marveling at the clarity and realism of the drum kit - the cymbals really sounded fantastic and alive, with the small and the large ride cymbals easily distinguishable.  The kick drum was right there and the snare was tight and crisp. 

 

The bass player plays a very interesting electric upright that he designed and muanfactures (the Kydd Bass).  It sounds great live and it sounds just as great in my living room today through the Douk.  I'm still blown away by the sound quality I can get from  a $129 amplifier!  It may not be quite up there with its 4 and 5 figure cousins, but it's very very good!

That is the perfect "test" (forgetting the equipment involved).  And since you are a musician who makes recordings of his group, you are truly familiar with the live sound as recorded when you evaluate equipment (as well as having trained ears).  The rest of us are only guessing about the (large) variable known as the recording.    

[firedog]

Yep.

Fantastic electronics available for 3 figures and low 4 four figures.

I'd bet many audiophiles couldn't actually hear the difference between their electronics in the $3k and up level vs. some more modestly priced stuff. 

Not saying some of the very expensive stuff doesn't sound better, but the difference can be very small, possibly even requiring specialized concentrated listening to hear it. 

[botrytis]

7 hours ago, firedog said:

Yep.

Fantastic electronics available for 3 figures and low 4 four figures.

I'd bet many audiophiles couldn't actually hear the difference between their electronics in the $3k and up level vs. some more modestly priced stuff. 

Not saying some of the very expensive stuff doesn't sound better, but the difference can be very small, possibly even requiring specialized concentrated listening to hear it. 

 

Totally agree. Currently using a Benchmark AHB2 amp in my office/listening room (MY SYSTEM - not that I am selfish or anything) and powering my Wharfedale Linton Heritage speakers. I try not to overpower the room 😁

[botrytis]

It is way more power than I need.

[davide256]

Class D does shine for its small size and sound quality in the mids and low bass. I hope to see more internally bi amped speakers

where the bass and mid range driver{s} could  use a class D for that power hungry region and a  small class A for a more efficient treble driver.

Not saying the treble is bad for class D but my experience so far is that its not forgiving for up stream flaws.

 

[PYP]

26 minutes ago, davide256 said:

Not saying the treble is bad for class D but my experience so far is that its not forgiving for up stream flaws.

 

I do think this is the challenge that can be turned into an opportunity, but like any optimization of a setup it takes experimentation.   Some upstream solutions create their own sound fingerprints and these are, of course, a matter of personal taste.   I prefer as neutral presentation as possible (which means different things to different people) since it is more satisfactory over the long term.    

 

In my own setup, power conditioning has been important in getting a truly musical (to my ears) presentation.   Without a certain level of realism of tone and timbre, the music doesn't sound close enough to live to maintain the illusion of real music.  

 

 

[bluesman]

1 hour ago, davide256 said:

Not saying the treble is bad for class D but my experience so far is that its not forgiving for up stream flaws.

That’s why I was so amazed at the quality of reproduction of the cymbals in particular and the entire drum kit.  I sit directly in front of the drummer between the hi-hat and crash on my left and the ride on my right.  So I’m very very familiar with their sound.  I use good IEMs for blues shows (loud) and none for quieter jazz - so I know them acoustically and through a very good reproduction system.

 

The Douk is surprisingly realistic top to bottom, and it makes a believable 50+ WPC into 8 Ohms.  My little TASCAM recorder does a stellar job.  But it cost less than $200, so the two mics in it probably don’t have Neumann trembling.  So there are “upstream flaws” for sure.  Class D won’t remove them, but the best examples no longer magnify them either.

[Geoffrey]

A fine article and reportedly iFi continues to have issues with software, which is keeping me from pulling the trigger on the iFi Zen Stream. 

I have some real world experience with some S.M.S.L. amps. I first bought the S.M.S.L.  SA300 for $139.00 and was impressed. The SA300 uses one Infineon Merus MA12070  amplification chip. However, my then situation did not allow me to position my bookshelves properly, I was forced to position them way too high, so it wasn't until I moved to my current abode that I discovered that the SA300 biggest flaw for its price class is IMO, in a lack of depth in the soundstage.

 

6 months ago I bought the SMSL AO200 @ $279. which employs 2 of the same Merus amplification chips and that provided a big upgrade in performance. Depth of field was now acceptable, though not outstanding.

 

3 months ago I purchased a pair of Elac Carina BS243.4 Bookshelves with dedicated stands on sale for $999.00. I'm using the AO200's  sub out to a Quad LF66 subwoofer. That combo works well. But I intend to use the AO200 amp in my desktop system, along with the Quad sub, so I need some replacements to use with the Elac's. 

 

Enter the SMSL A300 ampifier @ $196.00. I intend to buy two of them and Bi-Amp the Elac Carina bookshelves. Coupling them with two Emotiva Airmotiv SE8 Flex 8" Subwoofers. Besides affordability, a passive radiator to avoid port chuffing, these subwoofers offer a high pass filter for bass management. "Simply connect the output of your preamp or DAC to the Flex Sub, and then connect the line-level outputs of the Flex Sub to the inputs of your power amp". allowing the speakers to only have to handle frequencies above the cutoff point, a decided advantage. 

 

To the above, I've settled upon the Parasound Zpre3 Preamplifier, which besides volume control and numerous inputs offers a highly desirable remote that features Balance, Tone, Treble and Bass controls. I'm a fan of the Master Set Speaker Positioning System, which requires a balance control. Here's an informative post on employing the system. Here's a useful video: Master Set & Rational Speaker Placement; A How To For GREAT SOUNDSTAGE 

 

To my mind, this is an affordable priced system of separates for those of modest income with performance well above its price point.

[bluesman]

1 hour ago, Geoffrey said:

A fine article and reportedly iFi continues to have issues with software, which is keeping me from pulling the trigger on the iFi Zen Stream. 

I have some real world experience with some S.M.S.L. amps. I first bought the S.M.S.L.  SA300 for $139.00 and was impressed. The SA300 uses one Infineon Merus MA12070  amplification chip. However, my then situation did not allow me to position my bookshelves properly, I was forced to position them way too high, so it wasn't until I moved to my current abode that I discovered that the SA300 biggest flaw for its price class is IMO, in a lack of depth in the soundstage.

 

6 months ago I bought the SMSL AO200 @ $279. which employs 2 of the same Merus amplification chips and that provided a big upgrade in performance. Depth of field was now acceptable, though not outstanding.

 

3 months ago I purchased a pair of Elac Carina BS243.4 Bookshelves with dedicated stands on sale for $999.00. I'm using the AO200's  sub out to a Quad LF66 subwoofer. That combo works well. But I intend to use the AO200 amp in my desktop system, along with the Quad sub, so I need some replacements to use with the Elac's. 

 

Enter the SMSL A300 ampifier @ $196.00. I intend to buy two of them and Bi-Amp the Elac Carina bookshelves. Coupling them with two Emotiva Airmotiv SE8 Flex 8" Subwoofers. Besides affordability, a passive radiator to avoid port chuffing, these subwoofers offer a high pass filter for bass management. "Simply connect the output of your preamp or DAC to the Flex Sub, and then connect the line-level outputs of the Flex Sub to the inputs of your power amp". allowing the speakers to only have to handle frequencies above the cutoff point, a decided advantage. 

 

To the above, I've settled upon the Parasound Zpre3 Preamplifier, which besides volume control and numerous inputs offers a highly desirable remote that features Balance, Tone, Treble and Bass controls. I'm a fan of the Master Set Speaker Positioning System, which requires a balance control. Here's an informative post on employing the system. Here's a useful video: Master Set & Rational Speaker Placement; A How To For GREAT SOUNDSTAGE 

 

To my mind, this is an affordable priced system of separates for those of modest income with performance well above its price point.

Stellar!!  I’d just politely suggest changing the last sentence and the thinking it expresses.  In today’s world, only performance sets the bar.  Price reflects the cost of goods sold and the expected returns on investment of the designers, manufacturers, vendors, shareholders etc.  But it’s no longer a strict guide to objective quality.  Thankfully, even the crustiest audiophiles are starting to listen with their ears alone 😀

[botrytis]

On 9/25/2022 at 3:17 PM, bluesman said:

Stellar!!  I’d just politely suggest changing the last sentence and the thinking it expresses.  In today’s world, only performance sets the bar.  Price reflects the cost of goods sold and the expected returns on investment of the designers, manufacturers, vendors, shareholders etc.  But it’s no longer a strict guide to objective quality.  Thankfully, even the crustiest audiophiles are starting to listen with their ears alone 😀

 

That is a mistake when ears can be fooled so easily. One needs both, objective and subjective to make a good decision. 

[bluesman]

1 hour ago, botrytis said:

That is a mistake when ears can be fooled so easily. One needs both, objective and subjective to make a good decision. 

I agree that there are many objective parameters to help guide the purchase, use, and enjoyment of audio equpiment and many other things.  But I have a bit of difficulty with the idea that any of them should supersede the subjective perception of the user.  The main matter of importance to me is enjoyment / fuilfillment / satisfaction / etc.  Specs, reviews, recommendations etc mean nothing if I don't like the performance I'm getting.  And if I'm happy, neither outside opinions nor cost will change it.

 

On the other hand, I think we all need to educate ourselves continually by experiencing what others believe to be greatness.  Both objective parameters and subjective impressions from others should cause us all to find and experience everything we can.  By trying everything, I've discovered a lot of wonderful stuff and experiences I either didn't know existed or might have otherwise dismissed because of everything from my own biases to bad press.

 

We can all up our games if we keep open minds and seek new experiences.  But if I like something, I like it even if someone has pulled the wool over my poor old ears 😀

[PYP]

14 minutes ago, bluesman said:

By trying everything, I've discovered a lot of wonderful stuff and experiences I either didn't know existed or might have otherwise dismissed because of everything from my own biases to bad press.

And the opinions of well-meaning audiophiles who form the basis of their theories on insufficient sample size or putting their (or popular) theory before the experience of hearing.   

 

[botrytis]

1 hour ago, PYP said:

And the opinions of well-meaning audiophiles who form the basis of their theories on insufficient sample size or putting their (or popular) theory before the experience of hearing.   

 

 

This cuts both ways. Remember, just making a decision on listening, humans have a very small-time window which their hearing memory is accurate. If one listens and listens, then makes a decision, hearing memory is a bit mixed up. 

[PYP]

18 minutes ago, botrytis said:

 

This cuts both ways. Remember, just making a decision on listening, humans have a very small-time window which their hearing memory is accurate. If one listens and listens, then makes a decision, hearing memory is a bit mixed up. 

I agree with that and only think one knows a component after months in one's own setup.  I was referring to someone thinking that Class D = digital = bad and confirming that theory (and error) with one listening experience, possibly not in their own system and possibly not optimized (for example, some Class D designs don't sound best with isolation transformers).  

 

Then, that same person might read a "professional" review that starts out something like "I've never liked Class D amp and never heard one I liked.  I prefer Class A but I hoped the amplifier I'm reviewing was different.  It wasn't.  It sounded flat and whitish..."  That was a review I was reading about my own amps and my thought was:  How was he able to make them sound bad? 

[botrytis]

We are on the same page @PYP

[bluesman]

23 minutes ago, botrytis said:

 

This cuts both ways. Remember, just making a decision on listening, humans have a very small-time window which their hearing memory is accurate. If one listens and listens, then makes a decision, hearing memory is a bit mixed up. 

I’m just a tired old hedonist.  All ya gotta do is play me some music, pour me a wee dram, and feed me.  If I forget why I’m having a great time, it’s OK - I’m still having a great time!  😃

[botrytis]

4 minutes ago, bluesman said:

I’m just a tired old hedonist.  All ya gotta do is play me some music, pour me a wee dram, and feed me.  If I forget why I’m having a great time, it’s OK - I’m still having a great time!  😃

 

AND ISN'T THAT WHAT THIS HOBBY IS ABOUT? THE MUSIC?

 

 

😁