Usb cable shootout

[Kimo]

1 hour ago, R1200CL said:

Not sure if cheap, but maybe the best available. The Singxer SU-2. 
( I have a almost unused Sonore ultraDigital that’s a condensed SU-1 for sale)

 

If you don’t know how well the USB is implemented in that Linneberg DAC, maybe it’s worth trying the AES/EBU input ?

 

Also, if I’m understanding you correctly, you have Vbus power from a PC into the DAC. Maybe an issue ?

 

I am using an Innuos server, so maybe I made a mistake.  I believe the Linnenberg designer probably has a preference for AES or coaxial over USB, but I won't put words in his mouth.

 

I also saw a Singxer SU-6 for a bit more money, but I guess I lack the understanding of why it would be so much better than the  2 outside of parts upgrades.

 

I don't have anything left around here with an AES output.  I used to have a CD player that I plugged into the LInnenberg and I remember thinking that it sounded very "solid" compared with USB.

[fas42]

7 hours ago, Kimo said:

 

 

I am afraid that I will have to be content with my Oyaide and Black Cat, unless I choose to play files through the BR player.  The problem with that approach is that I bring those nasty cheap switching powers supplies into the system and they screw up the sound of the whole system when plugged into the power strip.  

 

The solution to it, is to power the BR unit through some heavy duty filtering which is reserved for that player. Start with something simple, to do the filtering, which becomes a barrier between the behaviour of those switching supplies, and the socket the filtering is plugged into. If that filtering is not effective enough, increase the quality of the filtering until acceptable isolation is achieved; that is, the sound of the system is no longer screwed. There will be filtering "good enough", but it may take a few gos to get it right.

 

The joke may be, that the filtering costs more than the BR unit! But that doesn't matter, if it solves the overall SQ problem ...

[Kimo]

14 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

The solution to it, is to power the BR unit through some heavy duty filtering which is reserved for that player. Start with something simple, to do the filtering, which becomes a barrier between the behaviour of those switching supplies, and the socket the filtering is plugged into. If that filtering is not effective enough, increase the quality of the filtering until acceptable isolation is achieved; that is, the sound of the system is no longer screwed. There will be filtering "good enough", but it may take a few gos to get it right.

 

The joke may be, that the filtering costs more than the BR unit! But that doesn't matter, if it solves the overall SQ problem ...

 

Actually, the solution may be to buy another BR player.  Not sure the power supply should behave this badly.  Getting it out of the strip and on another line helps.  BR players seem to be defaulting to optical for the most part.  Only a couple with coaxial out left on the market.

 

I may demo a USB converter.  I am curious as to whether or not I will notice much in USB cable change while running through one of those.  I presume not, but presumptions aren't the way into heaven.  

[fas42]

9 hours ago, Kimo said:

 

Actually, the solution may be to buy another BR player.  Not sure the power supply should behave this badly.  Getting it out of the strip and on another line helps.  BR players seem to be defaulting to optical for the most part.  Only a couple with coaxial out left on the market.

 

I may demo a USB converter.  I am curious as to whether or not I will notice much in USB cable change while running through one of those.  I presume not, but presumptions aren't the way into heaven.  

 

It's not a case of its power supply behaving badly, per se, but that all power supplies, for all devices, should be considered a potential issue. The more resolution you want from a system, the fussier you have to be - this goes for anything where the highest accuracy is desired; the good news is that you will be rewarded by specialness in what you hear, if all the right moves are made .

 

USB seems to be a problem child. Full stop. Anything that takes that mechanism completely out of the picture appears to be a good idea - so if a converter is a good isolator, then it probably will be worth it ...

[Kimo]

So, I just added a new contender.  A Supra Excalibur.   Been comparing with another certified cable, the baseline Belkin Gold.

 

Not sure which is better, but I am sure that they don't sound anything alike.  The Supra is probably the brightest USB that I have tried.  I have around 100 hours on it at this point, and it has changed little.

 

Read somewhere that Rob Watts stated all certified cables should sound the same.  Well, maybe with Chord DACs, but not with mine.

 

Anyone have any idea which might be closer to a "neutral" sound, given that they are both certified?

[audiom3]

I posted a review on Amazon about that same Oyaide in Jan 2021. It was at that time when I became a believer in audible sound differences between USB cables. Before this, I was like all of the others and believed it was impossible.

 

I didn't even listen to it with music at first. I played an online game that I'd had hundreds of hours invested. So there's only so much looped music and sound effects - which you become quite familiar with after many hours. The difference was immediate and jarring. I never knew how well authored the soundtrack/effects really were. There were things behind me now (phasing), highs were crisp, spoken parts sounded much more realistic and far less chesty, etc, etc.

I had been using a Pangea USB for a few years prior which didn't sound any different to my Beldin Gold. I just wanted a USB that was made to last. Now the Pangea has been relegated to my printing duties 🤣

[Kimo]

Upon further testing between these two, I have come to learn something that bothers me a bit.  When I change the latency on the Innuos to normal, I get a much different result.  The Supra and the Belkin sound much more alike, very close.  When I move between low and normal latency with just the Belkin, the low latency mode sounds a touch brighter.  When I move between low and normal with the Supra, the low mode sounds a bit brighter than all the others.  By degrees, it is the biggest jump.

 

I am guessing this a DAC thing and that is fine.  I am going to dig up a few more usb cables to compare.  

 

Why would the lower latency setting sound brighter, especially with the Supra, and make the two cables sound so much more different than the normal setting?  Must be a filtering thing?  Better filters probably work better with USB higher latency, I am guessing?
 

[Kimo]

Well, I have added a few new contenders.

 

1. Philips 2M

2. Supra Excalibur 1M

3. Straightwire USBF 1M

 

Philips and Supra sound tonally quite similar.  Neither can be called warmish, ala the Belkin.  Supra is a little more refined all around.  Some might find it a bit lean.  

 

Straightwire on its way.  Outside a Curious or a Diamond, not much else intrigues me at this point, other than why the USB certified Belkin and USB certified Supra sound different.  Perhaps, the double shielding of the Belkin is doing something good, or bad?  Maybe Rob Watts can explain.  

 

Another aside, since upgrading to the Mk III, I don't notice much difference in the latency settings any more.  I have learned that hot swapping USB cables can lead to an occasional strange result, however.

[Kimo]

Got the SW in along with an Amazon Basic.  Got a PYST on order.  Even used ethernet to run into the Sony 800 and used a SPDIF cable bypassing USB altogether.  

 

Amazon works fine.  Maybe better than the Belkin Gold.  No darkness in the midrange.  SW filtered sounds a little different than all others.  Truncated, perhaps?  Will be interested in comparing filtered to non filtered PYST version.  SPDIF sounded different, aw well.  More punch, but slightly narrower soundstage.

 

Tonality with different USB cables is all over the place, even if only subtle, without respect to price.  More money brings a touch more refinement.  I haven't noticed big changes in anything else.

[Currawong]

On 3/12/2023 at 10:53 PM, Kimo said:

So, I just added a new contender.  A Supra Excalibur.   Been comparing with another certified cable, the baseline Belkin Gold.

 

Not sure which is better, but I am sure that they don't sound anything alike.  The Supra is probably the brightest USB that I have tried.  I have around 100 hours on it at this point, and it has changed little.

 

Read somewhere that Rob Watts stated all certified cables should sound the same.  Well, maybe with Chord DACs, but not with mine.

 

Anyone have any idea which might be closer to a "neutral" sound, given that they are both certified?

 

What you want to do is, compare with optical. Anything that sounds brighter -- you're likely hearing more HF noise being let through. You wont hear anything that is darker! Basically, all the cables are doing is changing the noise profile of your system, as they let through different frequencies of noise. It's easy to mistake a brighter, harder (or harsher) sound as having more detail.

 

A friend of mine, who is pretty far down the proverbial rabbit hole with tweaks to his system, said that when he added an SU-6 to his system, trying different USB cables connect to it, he couldn't make a difference between the cables any longer.

 

In my experience, if you remove noise from your system overall, such as by adding power regeneration and filtering, the differences between cables disappear, if they are all to spec. Ones that are not to spec will cause reflections along the cable, which can cause issues. Unless the cable is stated as meeting the 90 Ohm spec required for USB, I wouldn't use it.

[flowcharts]

I run a Jcat USB XE (powered by Plixir Elite BDC) feeding into an SU-6 (powered by a Hypsos) and can still hear the difference between USB cables ☹️

 

Supra, Inakustik Referenz, Network Acoustics Muon -- I believe 2 of 3 meet USB spec, and all sound different.

 

Removing noise is easier said than done with a digital front end.

[Kimo]

13 hours ago, flowcharts said:

I run a Jcat USB XE (powered by Plixir Elite BDC) feeding into an SU-6 (powered by a Hypsos) and can still hear the difference between USB cables ☹️

 

Supra, Inakustik Referenz, Network Acoustics Muon -- I believe 2 of 3 meet USB spec, and all sound different.

 

Removing noise is easier said than done with a digital front end.

 

Hoping to give the galvanically isolated USB cable from AB Tech a try soon.

 

https://www.ab-tech.se/klar/

 

Pretty sure my filtered USBF cable may only be altering the noise profile, but not removing much.

[R1200CL]

Not to forget the perfect USB “cable” from Uptone. 
 

https://uptoneaudio.com/products/uspcb-a-b-adapter

 

[fas42]

On 6/24/2023 at 7:41 AM, flowcharts said:

 

Removing noise is easier said than done with a digital front end.

 

 

Here's a way to think about it ...

 

Imagine playing a track, from a digital front end, into some buffer which is long enough to capture all of the data. Then, turn off all the front end, unplug it from the gear, and the power points - it is now completely dead to the chain. Then, play the track from the buffer in the normal way; if what you hear now is the slightest bit different from what it sounds like when playing in real time, with the front end streaming it through, then there is a noise issue in the chain ...

[Kimo]

9 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

Here's a way to think about it ...

 

Imagine playing a track, from a digital front end, into some buffer which is long enough to capture all of the data. Then, turn off all the front end, unplug it from the gear, and the power points - it is now completely dead to the chain. Then, play the track from the buffer in the normal way; if what you hear now is the slightest bit different from what it sounds like when playing in real time, with the front end streaming it through, then there is a noise issue in the chain ...

 

The filtered and non filtered SW cables are similar in construction, but sounded different.  I think most would say that the filtered sounded worse with the Innuos.  

 

It may sound a little warmer, however.  A bit more burn in time and I will double check.  That would be consistent with the less noise equals less brightness theory.  

 

[extracampine]

You should have included the Curious cable and the Sablon cable...think those 2 are supposed to be the best. 

[Kimo]

2 hours ago, extracampine said:

You should have included the Curious cable and the Sablon cable...think those 2 are supposed to be the best. 

 

At this point, I would settle for 2 that sound the same.

[botrytis]

The cables should be all the same length in a test. 

[Kimo]

35 minutes ago, botrytis said:

The cables should be all the same length in a test. 

 

1 meter where available.  Nothing shorter than 1 or longer than 2.  Can't find an AQ or Belkin Gold in 1m.  

 

Nothing really matches, except for some lengths.  Filtered cable probably sounds the most different from all the rest.  

[botrytis]

19 minutes ago, Kimo said:

 

1 meter where available.  Nothing shorter than 1 or longer than 2.  Can't find an AQ or Belkin Gold in 1m.  

 

Nothing really matches, except for some lengths.  Filtered cable probably sounds the most different from all the rest.  

 

That is the only way testing makes sense - you take out as many variables as you can.

 

I have worked in analytical chemist since 1984....

[Currawong]

Now if only ST optical had become the standard instead of that junk Toslink connection, this would all be a non-issue. 
 

Reminds me, I have thought about trying one of those USB-over-Optical cables. Has anyone tried one?

[creativepart]

5 hours ago, Currawong said:

Reminds me, I have thought about trying one of those USB-over-Optical cables. Has anyone tried one?

Like this?

https://sewelldirect.com/products/light-link-usb-usb-3-0-over-fiber

[Currawong]

11 hours ago, creativepart said:

Like this?

https://sewelldirect.com/products/light-link-usb-usb-3-0-over-fiber

That one looks cheaper than I've seen before. It might be interesting if the power lines are disconnected. However, I wonder about the data integrity of the optical to USB receiver and whether it might be worse. Might be worth experimenting with. 

[Kimo]

Picked up the final 2 cables for comparison.  A Furutech GT Pro 2 and an Audioquest Cinnamon.  One 1.2m and the other 1.5.  

 

The Furutech is showing a nice resistance to brightness and edge, but perhaps a mid bass bump.  Audioquest is working its way in.

 

I also ran ethernet out of the Innuos to a digital bridge and used a Canare SPDIF to establish a baseline sound for me.  Every USB cable presented a wider soundstage, but none have been as punchy.  Tonally, the filtered Straight Wire and Furutech were closest.  

 

 

[gfroman]

Stealth USB-T Select currently in my system.
Adjusting the tunable collar, it sounds amazing and images like crazy.