T+A DAC 200

[davidv100]

6 hours ago, Miska said:

 

It should work with loopback driver. But Apple Music is never bit-perfect on macOS because it always plays through the CoreAudio's shared mode rate converter/mixer. So the output format is fixed to what ever has been set in Audio MIDI Setup. But on iOS it is bit-perfect and can switch output format based on the source format.

 

Yes - I hope this whole Apple Music thing will be revamped someday.

 

Now, as I am the one who stated polluting this DAC200 thread with more and more diving into Apple Music specific things, I also suggest to close the chapter here, so that we come back to DAC200.

 

Thank you all for your input.

I have learned a whole bunch of interesting things.

[SPAZ]

On 9/15/2023 at 1:19 AM, Miska said:

 

I have iPad similar way for Apple Music and such (only way to get bit-perfect output from Apple Music). The only difference is that I have HQPlayer computer as upsampler between iPad and DAC200. Things like Qobuz and local library are played natively with HQPlayer and there the audio doesn't go through the iPad.

 

And thus, the DAC200 stays in DSD512 mode always.

 

How do you have the ipad connected to have it route to HQP and get dsd512?

[Miska]

7 minutes ago, SPAZ said:

How do you have the ipad connected to have it route to HQP and get dsd512?

 

I have two setups:

 

1) iPad -> Musical Fidelity V-Link192 -> AES -> RME HDSPe AIO -> HQPlayer Desktop on Windows.

2) iPad -> Matrix X-SPDIF2 -> AES -> RME ADI-2 Pro -> HQPlayer Embedded.

 

In both cases, there's:

 

WiiM Pro -> optical S/PDIF -> RME -> HQPlayer.

 

Which covers all the rest, such as Spotify Connect. Of course Spotify also works from iPad straight, but this provides easy wireless control from iPhone / Android phone.

 

Plus analog connection from amp's tape-out to analog input of the RME device. So I can play vinyl or what ever through HQPlayer as well (digital room correction, etc).

 

Local library and Qobuz are naturally native HQPlayer without anything extra. Through HQPlayer Client running on Intel based Microsoft Surface tablet.

 

[CharlieR]

On 9/9/2023 at 3:13 PM, OE333 said:

Question 2 - Additional I2S input for the DAC200/HA200

 

First of all some basic facts regarding the I2S inteface:

I2S (= "Inter IC Sound") was developed as an internal interface between audio circuits (DSPs, codecs, ADCs, DACs). This interface was never meant to be used as an external interface between devices.

 

@OE333I was thinking about this the other day, what type of signal is used between MP200 and DAC200 if not i2s? thanks

[CharlieR]

On 9/10/2023 at 3:37 PM, OE333 said:

 

Maybe the settings of the oversampling and analog reconstruction filters should be stored for each source independently - perhaps we can add such a feature in a coming firmware version. 

+1 on this feature, i usually enjoy BEZ2 on the AES input while I usually have the USB connection on NOS2, the fact that you can can change source from the remote but not the filter setting is something I find mildly annoying. I was actually looking at the com port file you shared to look at doing a source switching script but having this setting linked to the source would be even better. 
Thanks,

Charlie

[OE333]

On 9/17/2023 at 2:34 PM, CharlieR said:

@OE333I was thinking about this the other day, what type of signal is used between MP200 and DAC200 if not i2s? thanks

 

There is a S/P-DIF and a USB connection between MP200 and DAC200.

The MP200 chooses the connection according to the requirements of the audio stream.

 

As MP200 currently supports PCM up to 192k, S/P-DIF will be normally used, and USB is there for future updates...

 

[Apollo]

Not only are T+A are building astonishing products such as the 200 dac, I really want to thank @OE333 for the great support provided here on the forum.

Not to forget customer support in Germany, which are responding promptly at every question asked.

Great  company with fantastic people.

More than one big thumbs up👍👍👍👍👍
Dirk

[SPAZ]

Agreed Apollo. Nice work!

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, Apollo said:

Not to forget customer support in Germany, which are responding promptly at every question asked.

Great  company with fantastic people.

Having met them at the factory this year, I agree 100%

[guiltyboxswapper]

4 hours ago, Apollo said:

Not to forget customer support in Germany, which are responding promptly at every question asked.

T+A repaired my DAC 8 DSD which was well out of warranty (by years!) as one of the clock crystals decided to die.  I only had to pay shipping.  

[Asdfgh]

@OE333 With the DAC200 & A200, would 2m XLR Interconnects & 8m speaker cables be technically superior than the opposite? 

[OE333]

7 hours ago, Asdfgh said:

@OE333 With the DAC200 & A200, would 2m XLR Interconnects & 8m speaker cables be technically superior than the opposite? 

 

Technically 8m XLR and short speaker cables are preferable because this will provide a high damping to your speakers. The 8m XLR length does not matter, the DAC200 can easily drive 250 or more meters XLR if needed.

 

BUT according to my experience, high damping is not what always sounds best.

Lower damping will normally increase the bass region a bit relative to mids and highs. This most cases leads a little bit "warmer" and more "relaxed" sound but on the other hand sacrificing a bit dynamics and control.

What is best in your special case (i.e. with your speakers, room acoustic, cables etc.) works best is hard to tell. Of course it also depends on your personal taste.  So try and listen.

 

With the A200 you could do a very quick first test: toggle the damping factor of the A200 between high and low damping using the "DF LO" button on the front panel. If you like low damping better, then probably longer speaker cables might be the best choice for you. If you like high damping better, go with short speaker cables.

 

[Asdfgh]

7 hours ago, OE333 said:

 

Technically 8m XLR and short speaker cables are preferable because this will provide a high damping to your speakers. The 8m XLR length does not matter, the DAC200 can easily drive 250 or more meters XLR if needed.

 

BUT according to my experience, high damping is not what always sounds best.

Lower damping will normally increase the bass region a bit relative to mids and highs. This most cases leads a little bit "warmer" and more "relaxed" sound but on the other hand sacrificing a bit dynamics and control.

What is best in your special case (i.e. with your speakers, room acoustic, cables etc.) works best is hard to tell. Of course it also depends on your personal taste.  So try and listen.

 

With the A200 you could do a very quick first test: toggle the damping factor of the A200 between high and low damping using the "DF LO" button on the front panel. If you like low damping better, then probably longer speaker cables might be the best choice for you. If you like high damping better, go with short speaker cables.

 

Thank you, thats really helpful. Also, how would you compare 2 x A200’s vertically Bi-Amped compared to 2 x M200? Aside from the power difference, is the M200 technically superior in other ways? Would be using with nominally 4ohm 2 way bookshelf speakers.

[lsantista]

is it easy to change the voltage of the DAC200 internally, or does it have to be done by a dealer? 

[1125FPS]

Someone who does not own DAC 200 asked if there is already V2.  I suggested that may refer to HA 200 but not DAC 200.  The label on my DAC 200 specifies V1.  

 

What month/year did T+A release DAC 200 in the US?  Same Q for Europe?  

 

Many thanks!  

[OE333]

2 hours ago, 1125FPS said:

Someone who does not own DAC 200 asked if there is already V2.  I suggested that may refer to HA 200 but not DAC 200.  The label on my DAC 200 specifies V1.  

 

What month/year did T+A release DAC 200 in the US?  Same Q for Europe?  

 

Many thanks!  

 

DAC200 was released in October 2021 worldwide.

 

Some information regarding the T+A firmware version numbers:

The firmware version number can be displayed via the Settings menu of the DAC200 and it looks like "V x.yz"

x:= Hardware revision

y:= Major firmware version

z:= Minor firmware version index

 

A change in the Major FW version number means, that additional features have been added.

Normally this also brings a new version of the users manual-

The latest version can always be downloaded from the T+A website  -> https://www.ta-hifi.de/wp-content/uploads/um_dac200_de_en.pdf

 

The minor FW version index just denotes small little improvements or small (uncritical) bugfixes.

Information on the current firmware and its history can also be found on the T+A website under

Support -> Series200 -> DAC200 -> Software -> Version Information

 

For information about the current FW version (V 1.1A) see attachment below.

 

 

Regarding Hardware revision of HA200:

Currently exist two hardware versions of the HA200. The changes in HW from rev1 to rev.2 were

1.) new Bluetooth receiver chip

2.) new LED driver chip (for the front panel LEDs)

 

These changes had to be made because of the production stop of the original chips.

Everything else (i.e. the whole digital and analog audio signal path, pwr.supply etc.) remained unchanged.

The changes do not affect sound quality or functionality of the HA200.

 

HW version 1 is (and will remain) fully supported.

The 2.x FW is fully compatible with the rev. 1 hardware - so a FW upgrade via MP200 will upgrade a V1 HA200 to the latest 2.x firmware.

 

DAC200_Versions.pdf

[OE333]

8 hours ago, lsantista said:

is it easy to change the voltage of the DAC200 internally, or does it have to be done by a dealer? 

 

AFAIK Brasil is a special case with several different mains voltages (115V, 127V,  220V).

This is why at the T+A factory special versions of the DAC200 with special mains transformers are produced for the Brazilian market.

The changes to the Brazilian model can only be carried out at the T+A factory (or maybe a qualified service workshop with original T+A parts).

 

[OE333]

11 hours ago, Asdfgh said:

Thank you, thats really helpful. Also, how would you compare 2 x A200’s vertically Bi-Amped compared to 2 x M200? 

 

I personally would prefer (and recommend) two M200 monos.

 

 

11 hours ago, Asdfgh said:

Aside from the power difference, is the M200 technically superior in other ways?

 

Advantages of the M200:

• More potent power supply
• Separate power supplies for L&R channels
• Separate cases (less cross talk)

 

[lsantista]

4 hours ago, OE333 said:

 

AFAIK Brasil is a special case with several different mains voltages (115V, 127V,  220V).

This is why at the T+A factory special versions of the DAC200 with special mains transformers are produced for the Brazilian market.

The changes to the Brazilian model can only be carried out at the T+A factory (or maybe a qualified service workshop with original T+A parts).

 

that's right, mine is 127V for this is the tension in the city I live, but was wondering to change the DAC to a 220V city.. Thks, will liaise with the distributor here if indeed the change is needed

[Asdfgh]

Quote

14 hours ago, OE333 said:

 

I personally would prefer (and recommend) two M200 monos.

 

 

 

Advantages of the M200:

• More potent power supply
• Separate power supplies for L&R channels
• Separate cases (less cross talk)

 

 

Thank you. What about the A200’s being used to vertically biamp instead of horizontally, ie using the 2 channels of the A200 to drive the tweeter and woofer on a single speaker? You would then still have seperate cases and seperate power supplies for L&R channels. Or is vertically biamping the A200 not recommended for some reason?

[OE333]

On 9/23/2023 at 1:03 AM, Asdfgh said:

Thank you. What about the A200’s being used to vertically biamp instead of horizontally, ie using the 2 channels of the A200 to drive the tweeter and woofer on a single speaker? You would then still have seperate cases and seperate power supplies for L&R channels. Or is vertically biamping the A200 not recommended for some reason?

 

Of course you can use two A200 for vertical bi-amping - no objections.

 

But with the M200 you would have higher power, higher output current (= more stability).

As said before: I would prefer two M200 over two A200 in bi-amping.

 

Better still of course: 4 x M200 in vertical bi-amping 😉

 

[IW2CEG]

W T+A 😍

[Lokesh]

@OE333 I have been listening  to the M200’s with the Low Damping setting  for the past few days and I prefer it . I can’t describe it, however I feel it’s more enjoyable. If it wasn’t for this thread, I may have not tried the setting. Thank you for an excellent tip!

[OE333]

I am currently working on the DAC200 firmware.

I have learnt from the discussions on this forum that there is interest for some additional features like

• making the "USB-SYS" input available as a second USB in
• storing certain settings (Oversampling, Filter and Invert) independently for each input

These features will (for the near future) not be included in the standard T+A firmware, but I could make a special version of the DAC200 firmware including these features as a private project.

This special firmware could be flashed on to the DAC200 with either the official T+A programming adapter (recommended) or with the home-brew DIY adapter (https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/63998-ta-dac-200/page/15/#comment-1239207)

 

Anybody interested ?

 

Any suggestions for other additional features ?

 

 

[Apollo]

1 hour ago, OE333 said:

Anybody interested ?

 

I am certainly interested, especially in the 

• storing certain settings (Oversampling, Filter and Invert) independently for each input

Without wanting to sound negative, but I have some worries :

 

1) Would it be possible to switch (easilly) between this special firmware and the current 'official' firmware.

2) As this would be a special firmware, how would it held up with the official firmware(s) that T+A could come up with?

If tomorrow an official version comes out with some other features, will you be able to provide a new 'combined features' firmware?

I would hate it to get used  to a very handy feature, and then to loose it again in the future?

 

Dirk