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Apartment Audiophile: A ‘subjective’ review of Dutch & Dutch (D&D) 8c speakers for pop, electronic and rock music fans

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5 hours ago, fas42 said:

Pretty obvious that the 8C is way out in front - the other two are missing the liveness of the actual, captured in this clip, performance.

So you disagree with the majority that thought the ATC won, no surprise lol

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I haven't watched this yet ... I actually haven't watched the earlier one (which was said that 8c's volume didn't match the other two speakers, which was a major fault in test) ... 


I actually don't know how to judge from the comparison ... some questions were already in my head when seeing the test:


1. So they knew perfectly that the different speakers were performing their best in the position they were placed? Speaker placement is an art plus science ... must I trust their expertise?

2. Were all DSPs adjusted well (for Grim and 8c)? EQ? I must trust them.

3. We are listening to their recordings of three speakers ... not the speakers ... 
4. Will one speaker model perform better in that specific room? It has its own acoustics. I really dunno.


(MAYBE they answer all these during the video live? I dunno since I haven't watched)


I am not defending 8c ... I just don't know how to judge. To me, it doesn't really matter if ATC, Grim, or 8c performed better in that room ... I didn't try Grimm in my room since it's too big for me. My hunch is, if I have absolute freedom (and time) to do different room treatment, in my room they would all perform very good. I am not a brand religious person regarding audio gears. Rather, I am more sensitive to what fits to my room ... that's probably I take myself as ordinary audiophile ...


BTW, I used ProAc, with ATC drivers in my room before. I certainly know ATC has its merits otherwise it won't earn its reputation.


If money doesn't matter, I'd like to have Kii BXT ... oh but it's so big ...

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6 hours ago, Cadguy said:

@PCmusic, Martijn Mensink set up the 8Cs for their test and he also set the DSPs.

sorry I didn’t know that specific aspect. That was obviously better. Martijn and others welcome discussions or even tests, which I truly admire. Perhaps I have too rigid thinking about the influences of many other factors. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 3/26/2021 at 2:37 AM, PCmusic said:


I am not an absolutist insisting doctrines ... I actually wanted to buy LS50 but I really can't put subs (GAF) ... Love to know your experience of Xeo 20 and how you setup this in your small room and how it let you enjoy your preferred music. I have some friends living in apartments also have rooms similar to yours. If you could share a bit the best way to set up Xeo 20, I could share your post to them. 

Thanks. I quite like the Xeo 20 in a small room. But there are annoyances — the remote control is a forced volume control. One can disable it and use the source volume (Mac mini in my case) but then the Xeos default to their top volume and one has to tone it down from source. This is idiotic. They also don’t power up immediately, they take a few seconds.

They’re a nice fashion speaker with decent deep sound that’s not quite transparent at the top end which some reviewers describe as “warm for long listening”, which I don’t find to be true at all. Edifier S3000 at one third the price has deeper lower end and crystal clarity at the top  and I listen to that in other room for hours on end.

All in all Xeo have moved to my living room as they look pretty, especially in white with Dyn’s own white satin stands. But sound wise I’d say they’re an OK value for their Danish price, not quite amazing. But they’re surely better than LS50 etc, which are heavily marketed so they have a number of “audiophile” (wannabe) fans. 


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On 3/30/2021 at 12:27 PM, PCmusic said:

If money doesn't matter, I'd like to have Kii BXT ... oh but it's so big ...

I don't think it's  much bigger than the Kii's on stands. But  I guess it is visually more imposing.

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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  • PCmusic changed the title to Apartment Audiophile: A ‘subjective’ review of Dutch & Dutch (D&D) 8c speakers for pop, electronic and rock music fans

I just finished reading this post, which I shared with the OP's views: 



He has a "small (13' x 11' x 8.5') audio room", a room half long of mine. He however is able to put the speakers against the front walls. Yet he still found 'reflections' are something he need to deal with and consider. His interest is mostly in classical music - but he expressed that for complicated classical music, bare side walls seem to be a problem to him. But he also maintains that for most music, bare walls add a kind of pleasant liveness which all other speakers he used before could not due to the lack of very good off axis responses and perhaps the cardioid midrange. His 'findings' and mine are rather similar. The writings are rather long and needs patience to read, but pleasurable and informative, especially for small apartment dwellers. Two thumbs up!

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