HQplayer 4 and Mac-mini M1

[LondonDan]

Thanks, I can’t compare sound between M1 and M2 pro but seems cpu utilisation is very similar 8 core M1 to 10 core M2Pro but heat is managed better on M1 chip

 

maybe 12 core M2 pro manages the cpu load lower.

 

An M1 with highest ram seems a smart move for anyone thinking between the two  and saving some cash

[jamesg11]

20 hours ago, LondonDan said:

An M1 with highest ram seems a smart move for anyone thinking between the two

Miska was sceptical M1 16Gb could do 2 ch convolution to dsf256 ASDM7ECv2 …

[Schafheide]

My Mini M1 16GB will upsample 44.1, 48, 88.2 & 96 to DSD256 with Matrix Pipeline using ASDM7ECv2 without dropouts.

[jamesg11]

On 3/24/2023 at 6:13 AM, Schafheide said:

My Mini M1 16GB will upsample 44.1, 48, 88.2 & 96 to DSD256 with Matrix Pipeline using ASDM7ECv2 without dropouts.

2 ch? /& 192, 384, dsf64, 128, 256?

[Schafheide]

Pipeline is 2 ch. But it will also do up to PCM352.8.

DSD64 etc not possible.

[jamesg11]

7 minutes ago, Schafheide said:

Pipeline is 2 ch. But it will also do up to PCM352.8.

DSD64 etc not possible.

Hmm, got a great number of dsf albums.

Guess it’ll be a wait til an appropriate mac mini or macbook pro turns up …

[Tihon]

On 3/21/2023 at 1:55 AM, Schafheide said:

48k DSD - ticked, Multicore DSD - Grey, Adaptive Output Rate - blank

If I understand correctly, Adaptive Output Rate blank means that 44,1k content will be converted to 48k. What's the point? It just increases the load on the processor. Or is there some difference in sound between 44.1x512 and 48x512?

[Schafheide]

For DSD64 to DSD256 with Pipeline, it will do using AMSDM7 512+fs or ASMD7.  But, PCM to DSD256 using 7EC does sound better.

[Schafheide]

32 minutes ago, Tihon said:

If I understand correctly, Adaptive Output Rate blank means that 44,1k content will be converted to 48k. What's the point? It just increases the load on the processor. Or is there some difference in sound between 44.1x512 and 48x512?

I have no idea - I just do it. Maybe someone else can chime in?

[Miska]

8 minutes ago, Schafheide said:

I have no idea - I just do it. Maybe someone else can chime in?

 

Depends on what your rate limit is set to. Unchecked adaptive rate means that the output rate is fixed. With most DACs this is necessary to DSD output, since they only support DSD at multiples of 44.1k. So the rate limit would be also set to some multiple of 44.1k and 48k DSD unchecked.

 

So typical case would be to have 48/96/192k content converted to 44.1k x256 or 44.1k x512 fixed rate. There is very slight advantage of going from 44.1/88.2/176.4 to 48k x256 or 48k x512, but it comes with increased CPU / GPU load. In best case the CPU load difference is negligible.

 

[mitch751]

On 1/27/2023 at 6:59 AM, rjanderjr said:

I have a Mac Studio Ultra with 20 cores, 4 of which are efficiency cores.  This is an M1 chip so the M2 performance cores will process faster.  I can not say if the M2 Mac mini Pro with 8 to 10 performance cores will be able to play DSD 512 using the ASDM7ECv2 modulator, but it should, depending on the source file.  I would guess that it could play any DSD file and upsample to 512, given how the cores are stressed on my Studio Ultra.  But cold play a PMC file and upsample it to DSD 512.  That stress tests my Studio Ultra.  It works, but requires a lot of processors running at high load.  See image.  Finally.  I have found that running HQP on Ventura requires more processing power.  I have also found the HQP 4.21 requires more processing power than 4.20.2.  I run into dropouts running 4.21 and upsampling to DSD 512.  Right now I am running Ventura with HQP 4.20.2 with all stereo files and no dropouts. The most efficient is Monterey with 4.20.2.

 

 

My Mac Studio Ultra 64GB RAM, Ventura 13.2.1, can’t play ASDM7ECv2 / ploy-sinc-gauss-long and it dropouts every 15 second with HQP 4.21.

 

I rolled back to 4.19.3 and can play without any dropout with CPU usage below 40%.

 

Is there a way to download 4.20.2 ?

[rjanderjr]

I have a copy of 2.20.2.  The question is how to get it to you?

[LondonDan]

On 3/19/2023 at 8:46 AM, LondonDan said:

Some info for those thinking of M2 pro Mac mini

 

I was using MacBook Air 2021 M1 8gb 8 core running Roon and HqPlayer (not as a stand alone server but as much turned off as possible while listening)

 

it would run poly sinc ext2 44.1x256 ASDM7 

60% cpu with temps up at 80c with room temp around 23c (not ideal cpu temp but it worked) 

 

Mac. Mini M2 pro 10 core 16gb runs poly sinc ext2 48x256 ASDM7EC

36% cpu but temps climb quick to 70c and I didn’t test long term but I suspect higher

 

its plugged into a tv through hdmi for screen when needed.

 

Using TG pro fan control I have set the fan control to 35% when cpu is above 50c which means fan is running 2800 rpm which sees everything running long term at 61c highest cpu and 56c average.

 

sound is great, absolutely love it but my point is I think M2 pro is running hotter than M1 chip set even at lower cpu utilisation if you want to max out the cpu usage of the M2 pro… that fan is going to need to be set higher than 45% now that is not the big noise reported by some reviews but you need to use a software like TG pro fan control to manipulate the fan speed because when the fan is at 70% it’s too noisy (I tested manually). If you Mac is in another room then no problem.

 

at 35% fan speed I don’t hear it in the rack at the bottom unless changing cables or close to it but on a desk top you do hear it when music is off from a few feet away but with music on it doesn’t interfere at all. Taking off the bottom black cover increases the noise AND doesn’t improve cooling on the CPU temp so wouldn’t recommend that. Raising Mac min up on 4 rubber / silicone pads 12mm high helps a little and probably reduces any vibration too.

 

it’s proving super stable with no issues at all.

Update on M2 pro mini 10 core

 

If I grey out multi core instead of ticked which I had on before CPU use drops from 35% to 25% which is quite a shift.

 

Everything else the same 44.1 to 48 dsd256 with 48 ticked.

 

temperature dropped 3c with fan on 2800rpm and now running 2500rpm to give highest core 60c and average 55c in a 23c room been running all day like that.
 

why is greyed out multicore more efficient than ticked multicore if anyone knows?

[Miska]

1 hour ago, LondonDan said:

why is greyed out multicore more efficient than ticked multicore if anyone knows?

 

Greyed means "auto" where HQPlayer is trying to figure out most efficient combination of settings based on the detected hardware.

 

Checked means "all on" which just blindly enables all possible parallel paths.

 

[dericchan1]

15 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Greyed means "auto" where HQPlayer is trying to figure out most efficient combination of settings based on the detected hardware.

 

Checked means "all on" which just blindly enables all possible parallel paths.

 

So should multi-core and cuda offload (if you have a gpu) checked or greyed? What is better?

 

thanks

 

Deric

[Miska]

3 minutes ago, dericchan1 said:

So should multi-core and cuda offload (if you have a gpu) checked or greyed? What is better?

 

Multicore greyed is the default. If you encounter problems, try with checked. On dual-core machines, it is best leave it cleared.

 

CUDA offload checked means all possible algorithms are offloaded. Greyed means only convolution algorithm in offloaded.

 

If you hover mouse over these settings, small help text is displayed.

 

[dc-audiogeek]

7 hours ago, LondonDan said:

Update on M2 pro mini 10 core

 

If I grey out multi core instead of ticked which I had on before CPU use drops from 35% to 25% which is quite a shift.

 

Everything else the same 44.1 to 48 dsd256 with 48 ticked.

 

temperature dropped 3c with fan on 2800rpm and now running 2500rpm to give highest core 60c and average 55c in a 23c room been running all day like that.
 

why is greyed out multicore more efficient than ticked multicore if anyone knows?

 

If you're looking to eke out a little more power from your Mac mini M1/M2 at lower temperatures, I can recommend this device: https://www.speed-designs.com/speed-mac-mini-cooling-base

 

It'll cool a Mac Mini 3-5 degrees Celsius more than the internal fan alone, and do so even more quietly/reliably if you replace its fan with a compatible Noctua version. Not a huge difference, but helpful.

[Schafheide]

7 hours ago, LondonDan said:

Update on M2 pro mini 10 core

 

If I grey out multi core instead of ticked which I had on before CPU use drops from 35% to 25% which is quite a shift.

 

Everything else the same 44.1 to 48 dsd256 with 48 ticked.

 

temperature dropped 3c with fan on 2800rpm and now running 2500rpm to give highest core 60c and average 55c in a 23c room been running all day like that.
 

why is greyed out multicore more efficient than ticked multicore if anyone knows?

Re your M1 (and maybe your M2 Pro}

It is a mystery to me why, given that your room temp is only 3 degrees C warmer than mine, why does your Mini M1 run so much hotter than mine? Have you removed all processes that are not required (assuming that your Mini is only needed for HQPlayer?

[Kalpesh]

4 hours ago, Schafheide said:

Re your M1 (and maybe your M2 Pro}

It is a mystery to me why, given that your room temp is only 3 degrees C warmer than mine, why does your Mini M1 run so much hotter than mine? Have you removed all processes that are not required (assuming that your Mini is only needed for HQPlayer?

Which processes have you removed and how? I think I recall Miska is no fan of altered OS... can't wait to be able to run embedded on the M1

 

everyday I regret I purchased 8 rather than 16 RAM M1 but nevertheless, I can play, with convolution in pipeline as a mix of .wav and .txt

any PCM rate I own (max 192) with ps gauss xla or gauss short for N and hires lp for 88.2 and above

Main reason for regretting is that I play from RAM disk, sure does a joy/no joy difference when it comes to DSD files.

My choice is to privilege 7ECV2 even if it means DSD 128 instead of 256 with lesser modulator (DAC is May)

other trick I can share : All my elements are on bicycle tubes (Barry Diamant's original idea) and that might help the breathing

 

 

[Schafheide]

@Kalpesh Go to page 6 of this topic - there you will find a list of things to do to your Mini M1 setup.

[LondonDan]

20 hours ago, Schafheide said:

Re your M1 (and maybe your M2 Pro}

It is a mystery to me why, given that your room temp is only 3 degrees C warmer than mine, why does your Mini M1 run so much hotter than mine? Have you removed all processes that are not required (assuming that your Mini is only needed for HQPlayer?

Mine has some things disabled some things not. It is not only for Roon / HQ player. All programs are force quit when playing music but Bluetooth is on for mouse and keyboard. Programs like TG pro fan cause small spikes in cpu as well as other background processes. Never above 2.5% cpu and mostly under 0.5% cpu, but I get the point, the less on the OS running or eve installed the better. 
 

i would be curious about other users of M2 pro but I suspect it just runs hotter than M1.

 

I Will test out some other filters to see how it does without the fan needing to be on much higher.

 

any suggestions?
I like ext.2 quite a lot with my select up. Dac supports up to dsd256 or 384 - 32 bit pcm

[copy_of_a]

On 3/25/2023 at 8:43 PM, Miska said:

There is very slight advantage of going from 44.1/88.2/176.4 to 48k x256 or 48k x512 (…)

Hi Miska,

 

may I ask why?

My understanding is that integer upsampling should be advantageous ??

[Miska]

1 hour ago, copy_of_a said:

may I ask why?

 

Because the output rate is slightly higher.

 

1 hour ago, copy_of_a said:

My understanding is that integer upsampling should be advantageous ??

 

Why would it be?

 

[copy_of_a]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

Why would it be?

I thought integer has less rounding errors.

Is this a wrong assumption?

[Miska]

23 minutes ago, copy_of_a said:

I thought integer has less rounding errors.

Is this a wrong assumption?

 

Yes, it is wrong assumption. Both are equally accurate. Only difference is that simpler ratios are less demanding for CPU/GPU and RAM.