HQplayer 4 and Mac-mini M1

[rjanderjr]

My base level M1 Mac Mini does that.  All DSD files upsampled to 256 and all PMC files (I only have files that go as high as 24/192) to DSD256 with Poly-sync-gauss-long.  This is true for two channels, not multichannel. Multichannel is only DSD source files and will only upsample to 128 (or downsample from 256 to 128).

[camott]

5 hours ago, copy_of_a said:

If I may ask - if not DSD512 … can the base MMini M2 with 8GB RAM handle any source file upsampled to DSD256 with poly-sinc-gauss (long) and ASDM7ECv2?

Would be useful to know - many thanks in advance!

 

 

Yes but this was already the case with the M1.

[copy_of_a]

thanks guys!

I thought someone in this thread mentioned occasional stuttering with the base M1 with these settings.

Thanks for clarifying!

[Miska]

On 1/26/2023 at 10:46 PM, camott said:

Hi, that's very interesting! The single core speed of M1 Ultra is the same as other M1's afaik. And I was under the impression that the SDM modulation could only use 2 p-cores - which is the big bottleneck with DSD512 (again, from what I understand). And the rest of the performance cores were for filters, etc. [edit - you can certainly see the load distributed across your 16 p-cores, with the 4 e-cores lower.]

 

If more p-cores are making the difference here then yes the M2 Pro, with 6 or 8 p-cores, vs base M2 4 p-cores might do it??

 

I think it has to do with memory bandwidth as well. Ultra has 4x more memory bandwidth than basic M1/M2. Pro/Max has 2x more memory bandwidth.

 

[Miska]

On 1/26/2023 at 11:59 PM, camott said:

Yes clearly it's not so straightforward. I will go back and hunt down Jussi's posts on this later. One thought is that the 48MB l2 cache is making the difference with the M1 Ultra.

 

That too, together with the higher memory bandwidth.

 

EC modulators can use multiple cores per channel, to a limited extent. So if you count at minimum 2 cores per channel for EC modulators, and another minimum 2 cores per channel for filters, then you can conclude that 8 performance cores is minimum optimal figure.

 

On 1/26/2023 at 11:59 PM, camott said:

 Regardless, great that you have DSD512 ECv2 working. I don't think I have seen any other reports of Mac users doing this.

 

Yeah, my MacBook Pro with M1Max and 32 GB of RAM cannot.

 

[Schafheide]

Rather off topic!

I have two identical Mac Mini M1.

Can I apply the Time Machine backup of one MMM1 to the other MMM1??

[sattler]

On 1/26/2023 at 8:59 PM, rjanderjr said:

I have a Mac Studio Ultra with 20 cores, 4 of which are efficiency cores.  This is an M1 chip so the M2 performance cores will process faster.  I can not say if the M2 Mac mini Pro with 8 to 10 performance cores will be able to play DSD 512 using the ASDM7ECv2 modulator, but it should, depending on the source file.  I would guess that it could play any DSD file and upsample to 512, given how the cores are stressed on my Studio Ultra.  But could play a PMC file and upsample it to DSD 512.  That stress tests my Studio Ultra.  It works, but requires a lot of processors running at high load.  See image.  Finally.  I have found that running HQP on Ventura requires more processing power.  I have also found the HQP 4.21 requires more processing power than 4.20.2.  I run into dropouts running 4.21 and upsampling to DSD 512.  Right now I am running Ventura with HQP 4.20.2 with all stereo files and no dropouts. The most efficient is Monterey with 4.20.2.

 

Hello, can the Mac Studio Ultra play redbook flacs in DSD512 + gauss long + gauss hires lp + ECv2 without dropouts?

[rjanderjr]

If by redbook flacs you mean two-channel PMC 44.1 Flac files, then yes.

[rjanderjr]

I would also add that, as I said earlier, I have to run HQP 4.20.2 to get 512 output.  4.21 and now4.21.1 stutter with all files when upsampling to 512 with ECv2 modulators.  Jussi says this is due to changes in Apple Xcode and it is simply not as efficient.  I can play all files at 512 with ECv2 modulators with 4.20.2.  

[Tihon]

Anybody already tried Mac mini with M2 Pro? I wonder if it's able to do 512 with ECv2, or it's better to wait a year for M3?

[Schafheide]

3 hours ago, rjanderjr said:

I would also add that, as I said earlier, I have to run HQP 4.20.2 to get 512 output.  4.21 and now4.21.1 stutter with all files when upsampling to 512 with ECv2 modulators.  Jussi says this is due to changes in Apple Xcode and it is simply not as efficient.  I can play all files at 512 with ECv2 modulators with 4.20.2.  

For me, my Mini M1 / Monterey has the opposite results - I can convert to DSD64 or DSD128 or any PCM to DSD512 using AMSDM7EC 512+fs and HQP 4.21 but no luck with HQP 4.20

[rjanderjr]

A few comments, I notice that Monterey and HQP uses less processor than Ventura.  I am running Ventura, but if I should run into limits, I would go back to Monterey.  I can not comment on 4.20.  My reference was to 4.20.2.   I get better result (no stuttering) with this version of HQP than with later versions.  Also, @Schafheidementions ASDM7EC 512+fs.  This modulator uses much less processor than ASDM7ECv2.  So I can understand that you are able to use this modulator with 4.21.  I like the sound of the ECv2 modulators best, but they are processor intensive.  Finally, when I convert from PMC to DSD, I use the poly-sync-gauss-xla, which is also very processor intensive.  The combination of playing 192 PMC files(for example) and converting them with Poly-Sync-Gauss-xla with modulator ASDM7ECv2 pushes the Mac Studio to the limit, but it works with Ventura and HQP 4.20.2, but not with 4.21 or 4.21.1.  Lastly, I am running Roon and HQP on the same Mac Studio.  Running Roon on another computer does not help stop the stuttering with 4.21 or 4.21.1. HQP client better utilizes processors, but I can not remember if it, therefore, allows 4.21 to work with the ECv2 modulators.

[Schafheide]

The reason for my post was, to draw your attention to the possibility that, your OS might be the reason that my results do not agree with yours (your post did not state which OS you were using).

[rjanderjr]

I have gone back and forth from Monterey and Ventura.  As I said, the Monterey does reduce processor load slightly, but not enough to stop stuttering with 4.21 with the filters and modulators state above.

[Schafheide]

I am sorry that my post did not help you.

[musicjunkie917]

5 hours ago, rjanderjr said:

The combination of playing 192 PMC files(for example) and converting them with Poly-Sync-Gauss-xla with modulator ASDM7ECv2 pushes the Mac Studio to the limit, but it works with Ventura and HQP 4.20.2, but not with 4.21 or 4.21.1.  Lastly, I am running Roon and HQP on the same Mac Studio.

 

I am using a M1 Mac mini (16GB RAM, macOS Ventura 13.2.1) , with Roon B1216 and HQPlayer Desktop 4.21.1.

 

These settings work without fail on all PCM and DSD content:

 

[sattler]

12 hours ago, rjanderjr said:

If by redbook flacs you mean two-channel PMC 44.1 Flac files, then yes.

Thanks!

[LondonDan]

Some info for those thinking of M2 pro Mac mini

 

I was using MacBook Air 2021 M1 8gb 8 core running Roon and HqPlayer (not as a stand alone server but as much turned off as possible while listening)

 

it would run poly sinc ext2 44.1x256 ASDM7 

60% cpu with temps up at 80c with room temp around 23c (not ideal cpu temp but it worked) 

 

Mac. Mini M2 pro 10 core 16gb runs poly sinc ext2 48x256 ASDM7EC

36% cpu but temps climb quick to 70c and I didn’t test long term but I suspect higher

 

its plugged into a tv through hdmi for screen when needed.

 

Using TG pro fan control I have set the fan control to 35% when cpu is above 50c which means fan is running 2800 rpm which sees everything running long term at 61c highest cpu and 56c average.

 

sound is great, absolutely love it but my point is I think M2 pro is running hotter than M1 chip set even at lower cpu utilisation if you want to max out the cpu usage of the M2 pro… that fan is going to need to be set higher than 45% now that is not the big noise reported by some reviews but you need to use a software like TG pro fan control to manipulate the fan speed because when the fan is at 70% it’s too noisy (I tested manually). If you Mac is in another room then no problem.

 

at 35% fan speed I don’t hear it in the rack at the bottom unless changing cables or close to it but on a desk top you do hear it when music is off from a few feet away but with music on it doesn’t interfere at all. Taking off the bottom black cover increases the noise AND doesn’t improve cooling on the CPU temp so wouldn’t recommend that. Raising Mac min up on 4 rubber / silicone pads 12mm high helps a little and probably reduces any vibration too.

 

it’s proving super stable with no issues at all.

[jamesgggggg]

Anyone here have the 4.17.0 desktop hqplayer? i am on catalina so can not use any of the newer versions. please dm me!

[Schafheide]

21 hours ago, LondonDan said:

Some info for those thinking of M2 pro Mac mini

 

I was using MacBook Air 2021 M1 8gb 8 core running Roon and HqPlayer (not as a stand alone server but as much turned off as possible while listening)

 

it would run poly sinc ext2 44.1x256 ASDM7 

60% cpu with temps up at 80c with room temp around 23c (not ideal cpu temp but it worked) 

 

Mac. Mini M2 pro 10 core 16gb runs poly sinc ext2 48x256 ASDM7EC

36% cpu but temps climb quick to 70c and I didn’t test long term but I suspect higher

 

its plugged into a tv through hdmi for screen when needed.

 

Using TG pro fan control I have set the fan control to 35% when cpu is above 50c which means fan is running 2800 rpm which sees everything running long term at 61c highest cpu and 56c average.

 

sound is great, absolutely love it but my point is I think M2 pro is running hotter than M1 chip set even at lower cpu utilisation if you want to max out the cpu usage of the M2 pro… that fan is going to need to be set higher than 45% now that is not the big noise reported by some reviews but you need to use a software like TG pro fan control to manipulate the fan speed because when the fan is at 70% it’s too noisy (I tested manually). If you Mac is in another room then no problem.

 

at 35% fan speed I don’t hear it in the rack at the bottom unless changing cables or close to it but on a desk top you do hear it when music is off from a few feet away but with music on it doesn’t interfere at all. Taking off the bottom black cover increases the noise AND doesn’t improve cooling on the CPU temp so wouldn’t recommend that. Raising Mac min up on 4 rubber / silicone pads 12mm high helps a little and probably reduces any vibration too.

 

it’s proving super stable with no issues at all.

My Mini M1/8GB runs nowhere  near as hot as yours (room temp 20C)

According to TGpro -

Whilst converting PCM48 to DSD512 (using poly sinc gauss long - AMSDM7EC 512 +fs)

Temp 50C fan 1706 rpm

Fan is inaudible!

[Schafheide]

BTW - converting PCM48 to DSD256 (using poly sinc ext2 - ASDM7EC)

I get -

CPU temp 47C  fan 1700 rpm.

[LondonDan]

 Yep seems M2 Pro runs much hotter. 

Runs many filters with no fan (ticking over at 1700) but when cpu usage goes up the heat builds quick) 

what cpu utilisation are you getting when going to 256 asdm7ec with poly sinc ext2 ? 

[musicjunkie917]

On 3/19/2023 at 1:46 AM, LondonDan said:

Using TG pro fan control...

 

Why are you not letting the M2 Mac mini control its fan as it sees fit??

[Schafheide]

17 hours ago, LondonDan said:

 Yep seems M2 Pro runs much hotter. 

Runs many filters with no fan (ticking over at 1700) but when cpu usage goes up the heat builds quick) 

what cpu utilisation are you getting when going to 256 asdm7ec with poly sinc ext2 ? 

Answer: CPU 264% System 1.33% User 33% Idle 66%

 

Using 7ECv2 instead

CPU 295% System 1.4% User 37% Idle 62%

 

For DSD512 (7EC 512 +fs)

CPU 250% System 2.1% User 31% Idle 66%

 

FWIW

48k DSD - ticked, Multicore DSD - Grey, Adaptive Output Rate - blank

MacOS Monterey, HQPlayer Desktop 4.21.1

[Schafheide]

FWIW Here are the results from my Mini M1 16GB

1. DXD357.8 - DSD512 with Matrix Pipeline - Poly Sinc Gauss Hires Lp - 7EC512+fs

CPU 246% System 1.7% User 30% Idle 68%

2. DSD64 -DSD512 with Matrix Pipeline - FIR2 - xFi - 7EC512EC+fs

CPU 320% System 1.5% User 39% Idle 58%

Many dropouts, so I never use this conversion - instead I use 7512+fs (ie not EC)

 

I hope this helps.