Grimm Audio MU1 and MU2 Music Players

[FredM]

Another very insightful MU2 chat, this time Guido dives in the analog design and implementation. Even for me (as a non-tech guy) interesting subjects are covered 👍. Part 2:

 

 

ps. @TheAttorney, as a bonus, the headphone output is also briefly discussed 😀

[Ronnie112]

1 hour ago, FredM said:

Another very insightful MU2 chat, this time Guido dives in the analog design and implementation. Even for me (as a non-tech guy) interesting subjects are covered 👍. Part 2:

 

 

ps. @TheAttorney, as a bonus, the headphone output is also briefly discussed 😀

Thanks again Fred. Very insightful indeed. They have taken such a holistic view in the design of the MU2, taking so many variables into account at the same time. They really know what they are doing. It is no coincidence the MU2 sounds so incredibly good and natural.

[PYP]

3 hours ago, Ronnie112 said:

They have taken such a holistic view in the design of the MU2, taking so many variables into account at the same time. 

Those two videos are not only an ideal introduction to the MU2, they show why they are able to build such an innovative device that is packed with functions (server, streamer, DDC, DAC, preamp) at such a reasonable price (when one considers comparable gear).   It is all the paths not taken.  It seems like the audio trend is towards more complexity (and size, weight and power consumption).  They are going in the other direction and that cannot be done without a lot of accumulated know-how and dedication.  

 

As much as I enjoyed this video, the speakers in the background kept getting my attention (are they the bamboo finish?).  I will admit to some serious audio lust towards the LS1s (although never have heard them).  

[Low325]

@PYP

you just took the words outta my head. 

 

I need to find a way to demo the L1s or higher.  I love my horns but the synergy in the Grimm ecosystem has me curious. 
 

I’m hoping it doesn’t please me should I finally demo, because that’ll leave me with some tough choices in my digital chain. Yikes. 😬 

[PYP]

15 minutes ago, Low325 said:

@PYP

you just took the words outta my head. 

 

I need to find a way to demo the L1s or higher.  I love my horns but the synergy in the Grimm ecosystem has me curious. 
 

I’m hoping it doesn’t please me should I finally demo, because that’ll leave me with some tough choices in my digital chain. Yikes. 😬 

@Low325wish they had a passive version of the LS1 so that the MU2 would work with it, but that really doesn't make sense.  The LS1 was designed as a complete package.  Well, that is assuming the MU2 demo results in a change in my digital chain.  😉

[aangen]

7 hours ago, PYP said:

As much as I enjoyed this video, the speakers in the background kept getting my attention (are they the bamboo finish?).  I will admit to some serious audio lust towards the LS1s (although never have heard them).  

At Axpona 2023 Eelco had an MU1 and a pair of LS1s. It sounded stunning. If I already didn’t have more money tied up in my Preamp alone I could see living with that system. But they don’t work with the MU2 and I am heading that way.

[pvanosta]

5 hours ago, aangen said:

At Axpona 2023 Eelco had an MU1 and a pair of LS1s. It sounded stunning. If I already didn’t have more money tied up in my Preamp alone I could see living with that system. But they don’t work with the MU2 and I am heading that way.

I hear you. I had been going through 30-plus years of upgradeitis (tweaking, trading, upgrading) using the 'traditional' audio setup (digital source, pre/power, passive speaker) and systematically moving up whenever possible. Then I heard the Grimm system (MU1, LS1be, SW) at a Dutch audio event and I was hooked. I first moved my digital source to the MU1 and then, when an opportunity for the LS1 system presented itself, sold my pre/power and speakers (and footers, cables, etc). I have not looked back since. For the past 2+ years, I have just enjoyed my music. One more possible upgrade would be upgrading the LS1 to the top of the line LS1be, but for that I can wait while I enjoy my end-to-end Grimm system...

[Nay]

Hi,

Just after some information regarding the internal SSD Music storage on the Grimm mu1. Can that internal SSD be easily changed to a larger SSD is this something that can be done DIY or will it need to be sent away? I do not know much on the MU1 so asking here.

Thanks

[krass]

1 hour ago, Nay said:

Hi,

Just after some information regarding the internal SSD Music storage on the Grimm mu1. Can that internal SSD be easily changed to a larger SSD is this something that can be done DIY or will it need to be sent away? I do not know much on the MU1 so asking here.

Thanks

 

yes it can be changed… I bought a used Mu1 and mine was upgraded to a larger disc by Grimm (from 4Gb to 8Gb; I don’t know what the maximum is)

 

I don’t know whether it can be done DIY, or whether it’s wise. But I do know that the Grimm service was excellent… they also brought some other internals up to date and all for a very reasonable price (such that I didn’t even consider trying to do it myself).

 

I contacted Grimm with my serial number who then provided an “offer” for the work, options etc. They preferred not to deal directly with me but rather through an existing dealer (easier to arrange transport etc), but if you go this way you should have that conversation with them yourself.

 

Very good & friendly service.

[onefspeed]

11 hours ago, Nay said:

Hi,

Just after some information regarding the internal SSD Music storage on the Grimm mu1. Can that internal SSD be easily changed to a larger SSD is this something that can be done DIY or will it need to be sent away? I do not know much on the MU1 so asking here.

Thanks

Additional questions (after a dispute with local dealer):

- is there a SQ decrease comparing internal drive vs external (USB)?

- is it possible to prepare external SDD in a magic way so it becomes R/W (instead of read only)?

Questions above appeared after dealers suggestions when I instisted on having at least 2TB internal drive.

Apart of above - MU1 / Tambaqui is a terrific combo…

[PYP]

1 hour ago, onefspeed said:

Additional questions (after a dispute with local dealer):

- is there a SQ decrease comparing internal drive vs external (USB)?

- is it possible to prepare external SDD in a magic way so it becomes R/W (instead of read only)?

Questions above appeared after dealers suggestions when I instisted on having at least 2TB internal drive.

Apart of above - MU1 / Tambaqui is a terrific combo…

I have not heard a SQ difference comparing internal drive vs external USB.  The external USB is read only, as you said, and there isn't a magic solution to that since it was specifically designed that way.  Some users do connect to a NAS however (I've read about some issues such as a very large number of files on the NAS and the some models of the NAS, but have no NAS and therefor no personal experience).   

 

I have a 2TB drive and it works flawlessly even though I don't use it much since streaming via Qobuz is so my fun (discovering new music every day). 

 

Agree that the MU1 + Tambaqui has special synergy.  

[onefspeed]

Thanks for a swift answer. Till yesterday I was only lurking that forum, esp MU1 thread recently. 

I am also on Qoubuz (streaming + occasionally buying hi-res), switching from Melco, over 4TB library, and still ripping. Internal SSD seemed to be a must.

 

Your explanation turned orange warning light to red. Looks like local distributor prefers to sell diskless Grimms adding some BS to it, instead of effort of installing anything. I will probably kiss my discounts goodbye and buy directly from Grimm online shop.

 

[PYP]

6 hours ago, onefspeed said:

Thanks for a swift answer. Till yesterday I was only lurking that forum, esp MU1 thread recently. 

I am also on Qoubuz (streaming + occasionally buying hi-res), switching from Melco, over 4TB library, and still ripping. Internal SSD seemed to be a must.

 

Your explanation turned orange warning light to red. Looks like local distributor prefers to sell diskless Grimms adding some BS to it, instead of effort of installing anything. I will probably kiss my discounts goodbye and buy directly from Grimm online shop.

 

If you have a library, then the internal SSD is the best option.  Of course, some people have more than 8TB of music, therefore the option to use a NAS is welcome.  

 

When I purchased my MU1, there were four dealers in the US (now there are more).  I had to call around to find one willing to send one for a demo.   My dealer assumed that the 2TB option would be popular and seemed to have bought his MU1s with that size SSD (which was perfect for me).   However, a dealer should explain the options and offer the service of providing the one you choose (mine did).  It seems from your post that you only have the option of one dealer.  

[Low325]

I had my MU1 upgraded to 8TB internal drive. Drop grimm support an email and they’ll get in touch with the country rep to assist you. 
 

for me, the N.A. Grimm rep worked with me with a partnered shop to do the work.  The rep kept both of us in the loop and coordinated the schedules so when I got back in town, my MU1 was delivered the same day. 
 

but to this day I think I only have less than 200MB of saved music on the drive 😂 

prior to the internal SSD, I ran minimserver on my NAS. And in terms of SQ, I couldn’t tell you which sounded better. 

[krass]

I keep my local music on the Grimm SSD but only because it’s convenient to maintain 1 copy there as one of 3 physical copies for backup purposes:

 

Copy 1: on my main computer

Copy 2: a proper backup from Copy 1 to a physically remote NAS

Copy 3: rsync of Copy 1 to the Grimm SSD.. acts as local playback

 

It would not worry me playing from a NAS instead of the SSD…

[aangen]

On 2/3/2024 at 3:46 PM, onefspeed said:

Additional questions (after a dispute with local dealer):

- is there a SQ decrease comparing internal drive vs external (USB)?

- is it possible to prepare external SDD in a magic way so it becomes R/W (instead of read only)?

Questions above appeared after dealers suggestions when I instisted on having at least 2TB internal drive.

Apart of above - MU1 / Tambaqui is a terrific combo…

 

Is there a sound quality difference between internal and external? Not in my experience. I was an early adopter with the MU1 and in the early days I used both internal and external drives playing songs randomly utilizing both drives. Both were SSD drives, the external drive got its power from the MU1, via the USB cable. That should have been awful but it wasn’t. (Samsung T7 2TB)

 

Is it possible to create ANY drive to be magically R/W? No and Yes. No, not plugged into a USB port on the MU1. Yes, do what I did and build a proper NAS. The NAS and the internal SSD, to me each device sounds amazing. If one is better than the other I don’t care.

 

The  NAS however has some significant benefits. One, RAID. Self healing, faster than it needs to be. The other I discovered while trying this server and that server, something I enjoy doing. When it’s time to fire up Roon on a new device I point it at the NAS. I have successfully restored Roon backups from one machine to another. Everything just works if they all point to the NAS. But there is never going to be a way to have R/W access on an external drive  with the MU2.

 

 I use my MU1 with a Tambaqui. They seem wonderful together.

[stevebythebay]

Agree.  Using a Synology NAS 923+ has all these points in its favor.  Additionally, at least in my case, it has far greater capacity.  I've got nearly 100k songs which brings the total size of my library in the range of 12 TB, I wouldn't consider one until it was offered at least 16TB. The only downside is that, due to the internal NAS fan, I need to position the NAS where it won't be audible from the listening position yet also near a power receptacle.  One thing that would be nice on the MU1 is a means to monitor resource usage for any thrashing or other constraints. 

[aangen]

I have a Synology NAS as well. I keep it in a cabinet far away from my listening chair. Five 16TB drives configured for Raid 6. Synology M3 drives for both input and output caching. If the unit has a fan I have never heard it. I am very pleased with it.

 

Five years from now we will have all SSD NAS setups and we will have to pay hundreds of dollars for them. LOL

[FredM]

On 2/4/2024 at 6:44 PM, krass said:

I keep my local music on the Grimm SSD but only because it’s convenient to maintain 1 copy there as one of 3 physical copies for backup purposes:

 

Copy 1: on my main computer

Copy 2: a proper backup from Copy 1 to a physically remote NAS

Copy 3: rsync of Copy 1 to the Grimm SSD.. acts as local playback

 

It would not worry me playing from a NAS instead of the SSD…

Just to share: For my modest music collection ( <2 TB), I added an extra account on my Microsoft Office 365 family licence to make a backup in the cloud (music and Roon backup).
 

The Microsoft 365 family subscription allows 6 members in total, standard with 1 TB each. I also have an annual local backup on a HDD, just in case.

[stevebythebay]

5 hours ago, FredM said:

Just to share: For my modest music collection ( <2 TB), I added an extra account on my Microsoft Office 365 family licence to make a backup in the cloud (music and Roon backup).
 

The Microsoft 365 family subscription allows 6 members in total, standard with 1 TB each. I also have an annual local backup on a HDD, just in case.

Offsite/cloud backup is nice.  Never know when the house will burn down or a the "big one" will happen out here in the Bay Area. 

[aangen]

I don’t choose to backup to the cloud. But I do have my collection backed up on multiple computers, and multiple external hard drives that I keep offline until I update them. Multiple computers, multiple hard drives, in two different states. I think that will do.

[stevebythebay]

8 minutes ago, aangen said:

I don’t choose to backup to the cloud. But I do have my collection backed up on multiple computers, and multiple external hard drives that I keep offline until I update them. Multiple computers, multiple hard drives, in two different states. I think that will do.

That should work as long as at least one state is not in the path of unfortunate weather events and the location of the drives are both upstairs.  Never know when a 100-year flood will arrive.  And these days, with rapid climate change...🤪

[ls13]

Hi All;

Early adopter of the Mu1 here. I've been putting it through a MMT and running directly into a Gryphon Essence Stereo Amp which powers Rockport Atria ii's. Frankly, I've been struggling a couple of years with getting the sound I want out of this setup, and relented to get a preamp. I had in my home at once, to mix and try, an Mu2, Soulnote P-3, Aesthetix Metis, and an Accuphase C3900. What I found:

The Mu2 running directly into the amp (tara lab 0.8) sounded very good. Quite a bit less treble energy than the Mu1/MMT combo, but great bass, nice tonality, pretty good dynamics, and good depth. However, the image size did shrink a bit to be mainly between my speakers. With my setup, I was not satisfied with the Mu2 alone.  I tried running the Mu2 through different pre's. Depending on the pre, the Mu2 could sound a bit rolled off, lacking some air and some higher frequency spatial cues. With one of the preamps though, that had more high end extension, it sounded amazing. In the end, the combination that suited my taste the best was the Mu1-->MMT-->Accuphase C3900--Gryphon Essence. The C3900 will arrive later this week.

At the end of the day, I think the Mu2 is fantastic, but it's sound characteristics will need to fit into the rest of the system, and match the purchaser's tastes. 

 

[FredM]

2 hours ago, ls13 said:

At the end of the day, I think the Mu2 is fantastic, but it's sound characteristics will need to fit into the rest of the system, and match the purchaser's tastes. 

Thanks for sharing your experience👍. That’s what it is all about, finding your personal favourites, in your room with your other gear (no such thing as an overall ‘best’). Enjoy your new Accuphase C3900 pre amp as soon as you have received it 😀

[kimurastanley]

Just updated MU1 to v1.5.8