Building a DIY Music Server

[Gavin1977]

Wow Taiko are busy... looks great

[Gavin1977]

Apologies if this has come up before....

 

I am just thinking that if you install USB and network PCIe cards which are externally powered by a linear power supply and they only use PCIe lanes which are direct to CPU, then is the quality of ATX power really that important anymore?  Could it be that just powering just the CPU EPS with a really high quality 12v linear is the most important aspect in this scenario?

 

I guess the downside of doing linear to EPS only would be that the memory and any storage that goes through the motherboard chipset wouldn't benefit.  Is this is only downside?

[Gavin1977]

8 hours ago, Gregory said:

 

I was wondering the same.
Why use  filtering before a component that will generate noise anyway? Seems like a waste.
I'm probably just missing the point: high end server: filter everything :)
 

HDPLEX 500w linear now available for preorder, it’s a comparative bargain, so have put my order in... so we will find out.

[Gavin1977]

SFN8255 now added - immediate increase in resolution / definition.  Big thanks to everyone and @StreamFidelity for reporting on this one.  Not even broke in yet, but 100% recommended.  With stock Buffalo GS2016 and finisar 1321’s it sounds way better than the EtherRegen I was using prior (again stock, I never got around to trying it with a linear supply).

I gave in and added a fan to the Solarflare  (noctua 40x20mm)... too hot for my liking in a passive system.  Easy to zip tie onto the existing heat sinks, completely inaudible at low rpm even with your ear up to it.  Drivers work fine in Windows LTSC, I will try onload at some point soon.

 

Asus Gene XI also highly recommended... noise floor seems slightly improved and music is smoother.  ASRock Phantom ITX perhaps had slightly more punch, but I think that difference is primarily because my JCAT USB XE is now going through the Z390 chipset rather than direct to CPU and this is maybe sapping dynamics a little.  I will try to evaluate shortly.

[Gavin1977]

1 hour ago, StreamFidelity said:

I assume you mean Solarflare SFN8522?

 

Yes, sorry @StreamFidelity it was a typo.  The other thing that strikes me is that you can already anticipate the improvement that will come once I supply linear power to the motherboard as well.  Your setup must sound amazing!

 

I notice that you use the Asus Maximus XI Formula - this seems to be a 4x2 VRM config, whereas the Gene XI is 5x2 - the XI Apex is actually the best for VRM specs 8x2 by what I read (importantly it avoids the use of doublers).  However, the Formula has "a dedicated onboard clock generator that supplies dynamic reference clocks to the CPU cores and major subdomains".  Any idea if this provides any benefit?

 

I also forgot to mention - my comparison with the EtherRegen was based on copper CAT5 only, I never tried it with SFP.  So just bear in mind that my comments are not strictly like-for-like comparison.

[Gavin1977]

I'll be testing the Asus XI Apex shortly.  No iGPU support.  Any PCIe graphics cards people can recommend with HDMI out which is significantly under 75w PCIe limit?

 

I would prefer to leave it in rather than remove it, even when I eventually run headless.  I like the idea of using a USB to HDMI adapted, but these are useless for accessing BIOS.

[Gavin1977]

10 hours ago, AME said:

 

I use the Asus GT710 1Gb, very cheap and uses very little power. 

Yep that's what I boiled it down to as well, GT710 or GT 1030 - there are no other alternatives for this application at present (Although Nvidia will release a GT 1010 / 1020 shortly to replace GT710).  Appalling prices at the moment though due to GPU shortages, they should be miles cheaper than they are.  AMD doesn't do any fanless / low profile options.

[Gavin1977]

Collection of thoughts following further evaluations…

The ultra low latency of the solarflare seems to give music better transient snap and timing, I think this is what also improves detail retrieval, dynamics and improved imaging over ethernet connection.  Stock ethernet via motherboard sounds more laid back, 'plodding' in its timing, less attack, which can make it sound a tad warmer due to more coalescence / slight smearing / slower transient response in playback.  In summary, music via motherboard ethernet is a bit less palpable.  

However it's a fine balancing act, it's easy for the sound to become over etched with the solarflare IMO as the effect of CPU frequency is also more obvious with the solarflare (probably any PCIe card directly attached to CPU).

Now, this is an interesting side benefit.  I am finding that the Gene XI plus the solarflare makes my use of a Matrix Audio x-spdif 2 converter redundant - just using toslink from the motherboard itself sounds marvelous, x-spdif 2 doesn't add anything extra (or worse) compared to motherboard anymore.  This was not the case with the ASROCK Phantom Gaming ITX.

I am now wondering if we have the beginnings of a suggested standard spec that anyone who wishes to put together a good sounding DIY music server?

 

1. Motherboard which has true VRM phases (avoid the use of doublers which can affect transient performance of power supply to the CPU).  I believe C621 Sage uses 7 true phases per CPU.  Increased number of phases may aid detail retrieval, due to lower power supply ripple to the CPU. 
2. Motherboard which, as well as VRM for CPU, also has minor VRM for VCSSA and VCCIO - I contribute this as having removed the need for the Matrix x-spdif 2 when I moved to the Gene XI.  VCCSA is System Agent Voltage, and it stabilizes/helps BLCK, while VCCIO (commonly known as VTT/QpI) is IMC Voltage and helps stabilize RAM.
3. Solarflare card attached PCIe direct to CPU - although this is not a huge loss of performance if you have the right motherboard (especially with regards to point 2 above) - add later when funds permit.
4. Obviously a higher performance CPU for their better binning (e.g. K spec)

Requirements 1 & 2 do seem to limit selection to Asus / gigabyte motherboards presently.

p.s. USB via motherboard still doesn’t compare well with USB out of JCAT NET XE, noise of the motherboard must still be present compared to optical isolation via toslink – it’s a significant step backwards.  USB out of the Gene XI might be a smidge better than my older ASRock mind (the performance is nothing worth writing home about though).  I think spdif on Chord products also sounds much better because we completely sidestep the issue of USB drivers – processing of spdif is completely under Robs control directly on the FPGA.  Optical toslink is also has the further benefit of being ultra low impedance.  I only play redbook / tidal, so not using USB isn't a big deal for me unlike those who use HQPlayer.  I have stopped using HQPlayer as I find it has a bit of a white noise background to it, less tonal colour (my impression is similar to the new Audiobacon MScaler vs HQPlayer review, although I have never tried an MScaler).
 

[Gavin1977]

+ Apacer or Samsung B-side RAM of course, and Optane SSD (if playing back locally).

[Gavin1977]

34 minutes ago, Exocer said:

Excellent point. I have serious FOMO for this area... as the Gigabyte Designare does use doublers for the CPU VRM. Though, having gone from the Asus Strix Z390-i to the Designare netted a "gain" in the SQ I am going for. Perhaps the additional direct to CPU lanes provided an additional benefit.

Ages ago there is a post from me here on Audiophile style where I did some VRM experiments, a true 5 phase MSI ITX and a 16 (or was it 24?) phase Gigabyte full size ATX VRM monster which used doublers.  Both running an old 4790k CPU.  True phases seem to be best based on their transient response IMO.  The high VRM Gigabyte board potentially had better detail retrieval, but looking back on it on what I know now I don't think there's any FOMO.  The change is subtle compared to what optimizations such as APacer RAM, Solarflare cards and linear power can do. 

 

Designare has minor VRMs for VCSSA and VCCIO, Asus Strix Z390 doesn't - you might have got the same boost as me because of the addition of these minor VRMs in the Designare.

[Gavin1977]

'Buildzoid' also does really good explanations and reviews on youtube as well... he influenced me to get the Gene XI, and shortly the Apex.

[Gavin1977]

On 3/19/2021 at 12:59 PM, Gavin1977 said:

Now, this is an interesting side benefit.  I am finding that the Gene XI plus the solarflare makes my use of a Matrix Audio x-spdif 2 converter redundant - just using toslink from the motherboard itself sounds marvelous, x-spdif 2 doesn't add anything extra (or worse) compared to motherboard anymore.  This was not the case with the ASROCK Phantom Gaming ITX.

Further listening undertaken - perhaps I was a bit hasty on this, Audio x-spdif 2 does still have a slight edge, as motherboard TOSLINK out does sound slightly software.  Audio x-spdif 2 should sound better though as it's got DR linear feeding it.

[Gavin1977]

4 hours ago, MarcelNL said:

I'm using the same graphics card, and wonder if there is something even less fancy, or is it possible to switch off the card once the computer has booted? (I don't mind manually flicking a switch on a modded graphics card if SQ benefits)

Apparently not, the only way to truly deactivate an installed card is to remove it or cut the power planes on the card itself / add a switch as an onboard regulator (if present).

[Gavin1977]

6 hours ago, MarcelNL said:

that would do me fine, my graphics card is on a riser cable connected to a 1x slot anyhow so it should be doable to snip some wires and install a switch. Looking at the PCIe pinout shows 5 12V pins and 4 3.3Vpins which may be too much to handle.

Daphile does turn off graphics output as it runs headless, I'm not sure how much juice is running through the card in that state and if noise can be minimized by switching off completely.

The higher end graphics cards tend to consume around 15w in idle if I remember correctly (this was from a graph on Toms hardware that I can no longer locate), GT 1030 or lower spec, probably 3-5 watts idle (GTX 1050 is similar to this).  Obviously under load is significantly higher.

 

How much noise it will add... well I presently use iGPU and will be able to disable this now, so that should create less noise on the CPU, with this being counteracted by electrical noise from the standalone card.  I seem to remember Nenon or Romaz stating that they could hear the effect of a graphics card being left in, it certainly is superfluous to requirement for audio and therefore can only be a negative thing.  However, will it be audible?  I would suggest probably not if using fan-less GT 1030 similar lower power card and it's just sitting there at idle.  Can always be under clocked as well. 

 

SGM extreme has an intergrated Aspeed AST2500 GPU on the C621 Sage motherboard, although disabled in BIOS no doubt - it'll still be electrically connected I guess.

 

So I'm not going to worry about it.

[Gavin1977]

Now, should be possible to set up an old style Apple IR remote with FLIRC USB Universal Remote Control Receiver to control volume on Windows PC without much difficulty.

 

But, what software options are there for lossless volume control in Windows?

 

As far as I am aware Euphony, Audiolinux do not implement lossless volume control.  I used to use HQPlayer volume control, which was brilliant (and you could set max level as well), but seems complete overkill if I don't intend on up-sampling.

 

[Gavin1977]

58 minutes ago, Gavin1977 said:

Now, should be possible to set up an old style Apple IR remote with FLIRC USB Universal Remote Control Receiver to control volume on Windows PC without much difficulty.

 

But, what software options are there for lossless volume control in Windows?

 

As far as I am aware Euphony, Audiolinux do not implement lossless volume control.  I used to use HQPlayer volume control, which was brilliant (and you could set max level as well), but seems complete overkill if I don't intend on up-sampling.

 

Should I add - 'system wide' lossless volume (if possible). 

[Gavin1977]

I promised to provide some feedback on moving from Asus Gene XI to Asus Apex XI... took me a while to find an Apex XI as they're no longer in production, and I ended up importing!

 

Technical changes:

• iGPU on my 8086k is now disabled (I now use a Nvidia 1030, from the lowest 4x speed PCI slot, which goes through the z390 chipset as the performance of video is not a priority).
• M2 disk is now CPU direct (via Asus DIMM.2)
• Both my Solarflare network card and JCAT USB XE are now CPU direct in the top two bifurcated PCI slots (8x each)
• Apex XI has 1 extra phase in it's VRM.

Acoustical changes:

• Largest change is the size of the soundstage - obvious straight off the bat that it's improved.
• Lower noise floor (less hash) - I'm guessing this is primarily because of the disabled iGPU.
• Sounds more 'natural', there is no digital glare... to be fair, there wasn't with the Gene, but transients were softened on the Gene because I had to run my JCAT USB XE through the z390 chipset (this mATX board only has a single CPU direct PCI slot).

So if you can only do mATX then Gene XI is a solid choice, but this ATX motherboard is better because there is more opportunity to go CPU direct with PCI cards and M.2 disks.  So the theory stacks up - go CPU direct everything and try to avoid using motherboard chipsets.

 

No iGPU on Xeons, so must be a similar effect for 621 Sage users / SGM Extreme.

 

One year on, still waiting for my HDPlex 500w linear to arrive...

[Gavin1977]

Potential new solution around the corner:  

https://www.fudzilla.com/news/pc-hardware/52893-noctua-confirms-its-passive-cpu-cooler-is-coming-soon

[Gavin1977]

Any extreme owners compared the Taiko USB to the JCAT USB XE yet?

 

I've had a Pink Faun Ultra Clocked spdif bridge card for a while, but decided to return it as the performance delta was not very large over JCAT USB XE -> Matrix Audio X-spdif 2 to warrant upgrade. The main difference was due to the ultraclock, with instrument placement (imaging) being cleaner (less haze around each instrument) on the pink faun.  How much better, not much, maybe 5% - so not big, but big enough to notice.  The Pink Faun Ultra Clocked spdif bridge is still the best bridge I've had so far mind.

 

So anyway, these findings lead me towards the Taiko USB which seems superb and USB is also more future proof than spdif... so probably a wiser investment.

 

(p.s. I presently use the USB XE to x-spdif 2 chain because Chord DAC's tend to sound better with spdif as noise generated internally to the DAC from the Amanero USB receiver is removed when USB is not in use.  I'll also be trying USB to spdif via SRC-DX courtesy of @Fourlegs shortly).

[Gavin1977]

2 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

Are you aware Taiko USB is only available to Extreme owners? Yes I know pity, hopefully be made to others soon! 

Yeah, priced at 1600 euro plus taxes.  Might be good demand if someone can demo against JCAT XE.  Emile has had a JCAT XE in the extreme, but their own card worked out better - would be nice for a more nuanced comparison.

[Gavin1977]

1 hour ago, Nenon said:

 

I had the Taiko USB card for a month in my system. A Taiko Extreme user loaned it to me. 

 

It went through a pretty bad burn-in slope (connected directly to the DAVE DAC). After the first 7-10 days it settled and became really good. Unfortunately, I could not power it up with my Sean Jacobs DC4 LPS. It required 2 rails (5V and 12V), but also takes power from the PCIe slot. According to Emile, the 5V and the 12V rails need to come up at exactly the same time as the PCIe power. Given that the card was not mine, I did not want to risk damaging it and did not try powering by my DC4. It was powered by the 5V and 12V rails on the Taiko ATX instead.

 

I was planning to do a detailed comparison, but then Emile said the card will only be available to Extreme users. I decided it's not worth writing for something that we can't buy. So, let me keep this short. The day I had to remove the Taiko USB card and put back the JCAT USB XE was a sad day. If I had to summarize the differences, the Taiko USB is much more natural and organic sounding. Every tone and every instrument sounded more real, more believable. We know that when we hear live music somewhere on the street our ears/brain can tell it's live music and not a stereo system. The Taiko USB brought me closer to believing the instruments were real and coming through my stereo system. And that's a big deal! That also makes it super transparent. My system has never been that transparent as it was with the Taiko USB card. There was also less noise, more depth, more air, the soundstage was bigger, etc. But those differences were more subtle... the organic and natural sound is what was striking and I liked the most. It was more analog sounding in a good way. 

 

After living for about a month with the Taiko USB card, I switched to the JCAT USB XE and what I immediately noticed was what I notice every time I switch to the JCAT XE USB card, which is boosted high frequency and bass. It almost feels like the XE has a V-shaped equalizer curve applied (not saying that's the case but that's how I perceive it in my system). However it took a few days and I got used to it, and I started liking it again.

BTW, all digital products or power supplies using LT3045 regulators I have heard have a unique sound signature that I contribute to the LT3045s. And I don't particularly like that sound signature to be honest.

 

I tend to agree with you on the differences between the JCAT USB XE and the pinkFaun USB with ultraOCXO clock. I've done many of these comparisons in the past.

- JCAT XE vs. pinkFaun without OCXO clock --> I prefered the JCAT XE.

- JCAT XE vs. pinkFaun with standard OCXO clock --> I prefered the JCAT XE.

- JCAT XE vs. pinkFaun with ultraOCXO clock --> I prefered the pinkFaun with ultraOCXO clock. But the difference is not that big and it's hard to justify the nearly double price. 

The improvement from JCAT XE to Taiko USB was a few notches bigger than the difference of going from the JCAT XE to the pinkFaun with ultraOCXO clock. In other words, the Taiko USB card is the best I've heard. It would have been an easy recommendation if available. But it's not. And that makes the JCAT XE my current choice. Unless of course you want to spend the extra money for the pinFaun with ultraOCXO. 

 

I also had a chance to listen to a brand new Taiko USB card a second time. This time I was using the SRC-DX between the Taiko USB and DAVE DAC. To my surprise, there was no burn-in nastiness at all. It was better for the few days in my system and more inline with what Taiko Extreme users were reporting on WBF. This is one of the these high-end audio misterries that would never get explained... it seems like the Amanero on the DAVE makes the Taiko USB card burn-in process horrible, and the USB on the SRC-DX behaves pretty nice with it. Go figure.

 

BTW, the SRC-DX is an easy recommendation for all DAVE DAC users. The only issue is that now you need good BNC cables. 

 

Super feedback as always @Nenon - it’s great to have my listening impressions directly backed up by your experience.  Yes JCAT USB XE does have a slight v shape to its signature.

 

Thanks for detailing the issues in deploying the Taiko USB in non-extreme music servers -  to be honest this would put me off.  So hoping they release a DIY version in the future.

[Gavin1977]

HDPlex linear power supplies...  My 500w arrived today.  Anyone have transformer hum on theirs or the previous 400w model?

 

Also, any opinions if the unit benefits from burn in (and suggested duration)?

 

Thanks

[Gavin1977]

I have returned my HDPlex 500w linear.  Good customer service from Larry, but I waited a year for it to become available and the product just isn't up to scratch at the moment.

 

Anyone got any alternatives for me?

[Gavin1977]

Indeed - I'd like to keep it around £1000 in total.  Taiko ATX would blow the budget to start off with and that's why I've been holding back.

 

I presently have a Corsair SFX750 - performs very well.  VRM on my Maximum IX Apex might well be helping.  My feeling is that NUCs are very much more sensitive to power, due to their more economical VRM, the PH SR5 gave a really nice boost in this case - I only witnessed a subtle boost in performance with the HDPlex 500w to the Apex.  The Apex is a v.good board, even the motherboard USB ports are pretty darn good for supplying your DAC.

 

My custom server (following the guidance given here on audiophilestyle) sounds very much like an Innuos Zenith - I have compared back to back - slight lack of delicacy compared to using a sean jacobs (I also know this because I've listened to the Phoenix and known sean jacob power supply 'character') but its livable. 

 

I just hate having the SFX power brick hanging off the back of my HDPlex chassis - was only meant to be temporary.

[Gavin1977]

15 hours ago, guiltyboxswapper said:

Mine was a let down at first, but after doing the following:

- use short cables, not the ridiculously long ones provided 

- use both CPU and PCIE to CPU EPS sockets (big difference, and more even heat distribution on heatsink after)

- change internal fuse, really opened things up this

- disable turbo mode for CPU 

- gave it at least a month+ to settle, left it on 24x7 (tons of caps in there)

- better anti-vibration feet 

 

It was much better than switching a standard ATX PSU in. 

 

Having said that the Taiko DC DC naturally shows it the door; my CPU is easily consuming 6A+ on load with ease.

The units shipped to me had build defects as well unfortunately which put me off using it.