Article: Guest Editorial: Why did audio stop being about audio?

[Rt66indierock]

Joel,

 

I just got back from the Los Angeles & Orange County Audio Society's annual gala. Most of raffle prizes were expensive cables and other items of questionable value. 

 

I believe you are wrong. The people trying to push  snake oil on audiophiles will not go away quietly. And if they don't go away the industry will die.

 

Maybe your memory is selective there was a lot anger in the past. I avoided audiophiles in the 70's., 80's, 90's, 00's and 10's for that reason.

[Rt66indierock]

29 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I don't believe that causal relationship is supported by any data.

 

Give me ten British  Audiophile Companies.

[Rt66indierock]

25 minutes ago, joelha said:

If there was that much anger in the past, Rt66indierock, more's the pity.

 

The people pushing expensive snake oil have something far more difficult to contend with than inappropriate comments on audio forums.

 

They have to exist in a shrinking audio market.

 

Our comments won't push them away, the market will.

 

Inappropriate comments stand a far better chance of pushing us away from each other.

 

Joel

 

Inappropriate comments are  the cost of weaning people from authority figures in audio. It will die down as authority figures are seen for they truly are salesman. The same pattern occurred in golf and things have calmed down. 

 

The market doesn't have to shrink.

 

 

[Rt66indierock]

1 hour ago, joelha said:

By your own statement, that's not happening in our industry, Rt66indierock.

 

If you say there was a lot of anger since the 70's, the anger proposition doesn't seem to be working or is working way too slowly.

 

I'd rather have some of the bad players out there in the industry and a friendlier overall environment.

 

If you want to disagree, you can have the last word as I've made my point.

 

Joel

 

Actually it is happening. I interact with enough people that disagree with me in audio. E.g. "if it measures bad and sounds good, your hearing isn't as good as you think".  This ruffles a lot feathers but the pendulum swinging away from purely subjective analysis is ahead of schedule. 

 

I worked at stuff on the golf side (see pictures of sheep references). Bad behavior online works in my favor for MQA. The supporters of MQA have acted almost comically bad. I don't want them to stop. I'll work on audio when MQA goes away. 

 

Joel, maybe angry is the normal state for audiophiles? I'm constantly telling people nobody cares on any number of audio issues. And they don't get it.

 

 

 

 

[Rt66indierock]

2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

If that's what you believe then you're a larger problem than purely objectivists. For the most part they don't care about personal preference. You seem to have a problem with someone saying it "sounds good" when it measures bad. Who cares if something sounds good to someone. 

 

 

Evidence please. Schedule please. Perhaps you can share it via Google docs. 

 

 

 

Your work involves creating memes?

 

I'm half measurement and half going through my reference albums and recordings. Show me something that measures bad on a Rohde & Schwarz or Audio Precision analyzer and sounds good. It may not sound great, but I've haven't  found  stuff that measures good actually sounds bad. 

 

I've found over the years just my reference albums cause most high equipment fail and my reference recordings get almost everything else. "All the young dudes" is surprisingly hard on high end equipment. How often do you hear "Pet Sounds" at shows? There are reasons you don't.

 

Pretty balanced I would say. 

 

There is little reason to design poorly measuring equipment today. Funny that stuff that measures bad won't play my reference albums and hasn't since I created the list in the eighties.

 

I sometimes introduce myself then ask which audio analyser they use.  I get some interesting answers but more folks this year give a model and we talk about results and issues like ESS "humps". 

 

That the pendulum is swinging away from purely subjective reviews look at the traffic to Audio Science Review. 

 

I spend some time on golf sites to keep things on track. It's why Andy Quint noted I have a lot of sheep pictures.  Golf has an easy authority hierarchy. What kind and how many tournaments have you won? Nine wins will generally put me at near the top of any gold discussion.

[Rt66indierock]

10 hours ago, ARQuint said:

 

It's not supposed to be a backhanded compliment - it's meant to be a regular, standard-issue compliment. It's admirable when you call out ad hominem attacks for what they are.

 

They are not, it seems to me, just an assault on someone's professional worth but an attempt to inflame and provoke. Lavorgna? He's a pretty excitable guy, but Lee S? He's really a gentle and thoughtful person who tried to engage in a serious discussion about the merits of you-know-what, and it took a lot of effort on the part of a dedicated few to get him unhinged enough to emit a bad word. If you'd given the sort of dressing-down to several of the worst bullies at the time that you gave to Plissken here, maybe there could be more discussions that stay useful for longer on any number of controversial subjects. As there are, by the way, on plenty of AS threads.

 

So, by all means, keep up what Cogley and crenca would refer to as "finger-wagging." It's what separates us from the the beasts of the forest.

 

Andy

 

Andy,

Lee either lied about HDTracks Streaming coming any day now or as I found out at RMAF 19 when we talked he was just repeating what he was told by the Chesky's meaning they were not telling him the whole story. Meaning he didn't check with another source. So when I accused him of lying he didn't understand why. It came as quite a shock when I told him HDTracks sued 7digital for failing to deliver a streaming service in 2018 and I'd been following the progress of the case.

 

Chris couldn't given me a dressing down because I was right that Lee was spreading inaccurate information. At any point I could have provided Chris with a copy of the  complaint and more fun the emails showing 7digital's strong desire to issue a press release to sucker the audio press into reporting an MQA streaming services was coming. Of course the audio press reported it like the sheep they are.

 

So in honor of you revisiting this journalistic failure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rt66indierock]

2 hours ago, joelha said:

For this forum, my examples of vitriol would include "dishonest", "lying", "shill" and other terms that discredit an individual or company.

 

Joel

 

Joel, when I called Lee S a liar about HDTracks Streaming service I had proof.  And if people don't want me to make sheep references about them, well don't act like a sheep. As my friend Andy Quint noted I have a lot of sheep pictures.

 

 

[Rt66indierock]

17 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

Bighorn sheep are noted for their power, wisdom, sharp eyes, balance, sure-footedness on suspect terrain, keen hearing, great strength, and a strong heart.

 

They are hard to hunt with a camera the only way I do it.

[Rt66indierock]

20 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

With all due respect, this sounds a little bit like the kids in my daughter’s second grade class. 
 

Things aren’t black and white, and people bend rules as far as possible without breaking them. I’d recommend a little less policing with a magnifying glass. 

 

This is a little more black and white. HDTracks v 7digital, was filed in June of 2018 and stated their business relationship ended in April of 2018. Any statement that HDTracks MQA streaming service was coming were false after April of 2018. Therefore  Lee's statements in 2019 were lies.

 

Not my problem if people don't have PACER to track federal cases, I do. 

[Rt66indierock]

2 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

You're no lawyer and this is no court of law, but suggesting you know Lee was lying is a stretch. 

 

Court cases are good sources of facts. Lying is simply making a false statement and Lee made a false statement about HDTracks Streaming. Pretty simple.  Lee and I talked about this at RMAF this year.

[Rt66indierock]

7 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I disagree. Lying is not "simply making a false statement." 

From Dictionary.com:

noun

the telling of lies, or false statements; untruthfulness

 

 

[Rt66indierock]

2 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

 

Yes, the key issue is what did Lee know and when did he know it.

 

In one exhibit David Chesky says everybody I wanted to know about this including Ford knew. In 2016 that included me apparently. The streaming service was announced in a press release in May of 2017.  2017 went by and no service. 2018 went by and no service. By 2019 the service was two years late.

[Rt66indierock]

30 minutes ago, thyname said:

‘As I said: owning any audio system. Show me what you got. Very eager to learn, and share experiences. That’s what this hobby is all about, right?

See my thread new workstation sound.

 

PS be careful of your response.

[Rt66indierock]

18 hours ago, thyname said:

This reminds me of my friend who was enjoying his Border Patrol DAC for months. He kept telling me this is the best DAC he had ever owned. Until Stereophile posted those measurements, at which point my friend decided he did not like the DAC anymore, and sold it

 

Your friend didn’t consider that John Atkinson could be wrong and is biased against products by Gary Dews.  I would not accept his findings without measuring it myself and playing my reference albums and reference recordings. And I like John, he has an open invitation to visit me in the Copper State.

[Rt66indierock]

On 12/13/2019 at 5:06 PM, thyname said:

But but but.... measurements are measurements and not subject to bias. No? You cannot “cook” the measurements, negative  bias or not

 

Your friend didn't base their decision on the actual numbers of the DAC, they sold their DAC based on John Atkinson's comments.

 

It is endlessly entertaining to watch people try to interpret measurements. 

[Rt66indierock]

6 hours ago, Middy said:

 

Hi Ralf i hope this was taken in its context.. that even published figures or outlandish claims of synergistic research, I cling to people like your good self to interpret what I don't understand. 

Published results can be as much BS as nano quantum tunneling marketing babble.

But i cant lock Amir in my basement as my personal measurements gimp if I fancy spending money. I can't verify facts that are verifiable and i am back to try before you buy if i am lucky.

 

Piggy in the middle and people who try to help on both sides are attacked regardless as not qualified enough... Golden Ears or letters after thier name.

 

But i very much appreciate your help regardless..😁

 

All this at best... hopefully Shepparding me in the right direction with the tag line caveat emptor...

 

 

 

 

Amir can be bought. Fairly cheaply actually if you read his site regularly. 

 

I view your problem as a social one. You don't have access to the right measuring equipment. Audio Precision and Rohde and Schwarz sell a lot of measuring equipment. It is your job to find a person who will occasionally test something for you. I always pay them back with meals, wine, tickets etc. 

 

 

[Rt66indierock]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

And what will all the most vocal skeptics here (and in some of the very same people in another popular forum where they are FAR less civil) say when the science advances or when explanations and proof come to the fore? Will they all apologize for being so utterly dismissive and for their years of ridiculing those who have been reporting hearing differences all along?

I am not holding my breath. 

And I guess we are in for more years of being told that our ears and our audio companies are deceiving us. 

 

You are correct. I've been telling people since 2016 your ears are deceiving them. I have a nice little test for them at T.H.E. Show and it includes how audio companies are deceiving you. Then again you could just play Pet Sounds and All the Young Dudes get to almost the same place.