The EtherREGEN thread for various network, cable, power experiences and experiments

[PYP]

This laptop stand has silicone strips to protect equipment.  Anyone using this kind of setup with an eR?  Any concern about the hot eR and the silicone?  

 

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B085MC6ZGL/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_4?smid=A3KXG1XXJBPVPP&psc=1

 

Thanks.

[PYP]

27 minutes ago, kennyb123 said:

 

Mine arrives tomorrow.  It looks like a great recommendation.  I had wondered about the silicon so I'm glad to hear there have been no issues.

 

Mine arrives Friday.  It will hold a LPS 1.2.  Ordered both at the same time, and since I chose Amazon "delivery day," the LPS will be here sooner than the holder.  Let is be said that UpTone beat Amazon in delivery!  Meanwhile, Jeff has a comfortable lead over Alex in accumulating billions.  

[PYP]

5 minutes ago, russellbobby said:

How about a $200 power supply for the EtherRegen?   Everything really sounds good but just cant stop messing around.

 

 

This UpTone LPS is a little more than twice that price:  https://uptoneaudio.com/products/ultracap-lps-1-2

 

An LPS 1.2 is settling into my system now.  It has only been one day, but it is clearly a nice upgrade to the included SMPS. Long-term, I've found that saving up and buying what I really wanted was the best path for me.  Your mileage, and budget, may vary, of course.  

[PYP]

1 hour ago, dbastin said:

I think this issue applies to daisy chaining any ethernet switches, or media convertors, including daisy chainingvsay a few ERs.  I have wondered at what point the incremental improvement of adding one more device is too little to notice - ie. Is it the 5th, 6th or 8th one that is not worthwhile??

 

This review gives you a partial answer to your question, hopefully:  

 

[PYP]

1 hour ago, Rsbrsvp said:

By the way,

 

Do others agree with not mixing ethernet cables on side A and B?

 

I would appreciate Mr Swenson input.

I haven't done that and it works just fine.  My main criterion for the A side is flexibility and for the B side sound.  In the end, experimentation in your own system is the only thing that will answer you question.  In my system, an opticalModule is before the eR, so the chain is: copper ethernet (from in-wall outlet) > oM > generic fiber > eR > "audiophile" ethernet > DAC.  My profile has the details, if interested.  

[PYP]

30 minutes ago, Rsbrsvp said:

I'm new to this so I really appreciate everyone's help.

 

Is optical module agreed  by all to be preferable to rj45 or is it not clear and not agreed upon?

 

What are the general sonic strengths and weaknesses of optical vs rj45?

Have you read this review?  It addresses the effect of adding optical, etc.   My experience, and all I've read from user comments, agree that adding fiber is beneficial.  

 

 

 

[PYP]

15 minutes ago, acousticsguru said:

Adding fibre may be beneficial in scenarios where the additional isolation is needed. The key word is "may". Remember there are two additional conversions/optical couplers involved - all else being equal, adding those cannot improve matters. It's a tradeoff, so the question is, do you have a RMI/RFI issue that needs too addressed? If not, you risk adding a little dullness to the sound without gaining anything in return.

 

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

In my own case, I'm using one purpose-built converter for audiophile applications (powered by an LPS).  The effect is the opposite of dullness.  And I haven't read about others using fiber to/from their routers (no need for external converter) mentioning dullness.  But, as always, YMMV.  

[PYP]

21 minutes ago, acousticsguru said:

 So you're right, YMMV. That's why I find it difficult to trust "best Ethernet cable" recommendations etc. In a high-end system, all comes down to synergy, and in case of doubt, less is more.

Agreed.  And in addition to the different systems, there could be substantial differences in electrical power delivered to the home.  Not only region to region within a country, but among countries.  Trying to clean up the power is one area that I have found to be tricky and very equipment sensitive.  Some gear likes, for example, an isolation transformer.  Other gear sounds lifeless in that context.  

 

A few weeks ago, our LED lights began to blink on occasion.   Audio SQ was also not as good as usual, and that is unusual in my system which has consistent sound.  Not soon after, our power company came to our neighborhood to replace equipment. The blinking stopped and the audio system went back to normal.  Just an example of variation within ones own power system.  

[PYP]

10 minutes ago, GryphonGuy said:

I know that the EtherREGEN has a huge benefit in my system, so much so, that I have ordered another one so that my PC's audio network card and the digital audio router will both be operating behind an "A" to "B" cleaning service.

 

Looking forward to your findings with the second eR.   I'll be doing a similar experiment in March.  

[PYP]

10 hours ago, Rsbrsvp said:

Regarding optical on side A I need counseling.

 

Simple optical 101 lesson please.

 

I buy a sonore optical module which connects both to my router by rj45 and then to the etherregen side A by optical cable and everything else remains the same?

 

Is this correct?

Correct.  I suggest you keep it simple.  The opticalModule already has an SFP transceiver installed.  See info here:

https://sonore.us/opticalModule-Deluxe.html

 

So, the easiest installation is to leave that one in place and buy a matching transceiver that you will install in the eR.

 

I use one of these for the eR:  https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00U77VPX2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

The optical cable can purchased from Sonore but it costs $50.  I use this one instead:  https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00T5796DQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

You can certainly try other stuff, but this combination works.  Just FYI.  @MarkusBarkus gave you helpful hints about installation in his post above.  You might also want to google installing SFP transceiver if you want other illustrations of the process.  

 

I never handled fiber before adding the opticalModule and found it an easy installation.    

 

One tip for installing the transceiver in the eR:  you need to make sure you press it firmly all the way into the "cage." 

 

For the opticalModule, don't forget to remove the protective film on the exterior prior to operation.  

 

 

 

 

[PYP]

5 minutes ago, Rsbrsvp said:

Next question.  My ether regen in this setup would receive an optical cable on side A which originates at my router.  But on side A I also have my server (a NUC) conneted to the etherregen with a rj45.  My question is will this connection ruin the benifit of optical connetion?

My suggestion about equipment assumed that copper ethernet would feed the opticalModule as it does in my setup.  If you have fiber from your router, you don't need the opticalModule.  You can run fiber to the eR but need to purchase a transceiver for the eR, in which case that transceiver needs to match the one in your router.  

[PYP]

13 minutes ago, Rsbrsvp said:

 

 

I have on order a paul hynes sr7 turbo dual rail power supply.  I thought to use it on my summus and etherregen.

 

I also have a mutec ref10 se120 clock.  It is connected to my dac and also to the etherregen.

 

Any advice would be appreciated..

An eR with external clock and excellent power supply is going to sound great.  Suggest you start there and fully absorb the benefits before adding fiber.  That way you know what each addition adds to the sound.  Just one opinion.  

 

Suggest you get opinions about whether connecting the DAC and eR to that particular power supply will defeat the eR's moat. What I don't understand about leakage currents could fill several large volumes.  

[PYP]

6 hours ago, MartinT said:

The ER responded very well to a Coherent QP-1 supercap power supply and Coherent DC cable, Black Ravioli footers, large heatsink and heavy weight on top, Black Ravioli grounding box to terminal.

The eR sounds great with an UpTone UltraCap LPS 1.2.  

Added an old Aurios footer on top to add weight to keep it in place and as a heatsink but didn't notice a change in SQ. 

[PYP]

20 minutes ago, agladstone said:

I’ve been closely following all of this because I’ve been planning on purchasing the EtherRegen. 
From what I’ve been reading, it seems like to get the optimal results and benefit, you need to purchase: EtherRegen, LPS 1.2 to power it, Afterdark Master Clock, LPSU to power that, good clock cables, two Sonore Optical Modules, 2 more LPS 1.2 for those, SFP cages and SFP cables, and at least two really good audio grade Ethernet cables. 
Assuming I’m following all of this correctly and the aforementioned list is fairly accurate, would I be better off just looking at a more expensive Solution vs. the EtherRegen that wouldn’t require the additional purchases of what adds up to $2,000 - $3,000 worth of additional pieces of gear? 

Would that mean you are thinking of replacing your streamer or simply looking for something to follow the streamer?

As @Rsbrsvp said, an eR without the extras will most likely improve the sound (system context being everything).  I've been surprised to read how varied the systems of eR users are, with some truly mega-buck systems in the mix, and how consistent the positive effect of the eR is across these systems.  The one exception I can remember is the small improvement the eR provided to a $24,000 streamer.  

[PYP]

1 minute ago, agladstone said:

I have an Aurender server / streamer going to two different USB Reclockers (ISORegen-> IFI USB 3.0) each powered with LPS 1.2 and then going USB into Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ being powered by JS-2. 
I have Cable Modem going into Netgear Wifi / switch combo with Ethernet going from that into the Aurender as of now. (Cable modem and Netgear also each powered by their own HDPlex LPSU). 
So seems like maybe just EtherRegen, powered by its own LPS 1.2 and a couple of audio grade Ethernet cables will be good enough for me ?  

Seems right to me.  I can tell you from personal experience that an eR powered by an LPS 1.2 is a great combination.  

 

Nice system, BTW.  

[PYP]

1 hour ago, agladstone said:

@PYP Thanks for the info! 
Meanwhile, my system seems like a Bluetooth speaker playing MP3’s compared to your impressive set up! 
I think I’ll start with ER and LPS 1.2 and a couple of decent audio grade Ethernet cables  and maybe I’ll add some Optical Modules down the road to go copper Ethernet -> Fiber -> Copper  in the future to squeeze some more out of it? 

Thanks.  I'm sure your system sounds great.  To me, it all about enjoying music, not how much is invested in equipment.  All my previous systems were "lesser" than my current one in terms of investment, but I enjoyed music through all of them.

 

My advice would be to live with the eR for a while (money-back guarantee, so nothing lost) and then think about what might be next.  Maybe the next UpTone product will be something your are interested in (only John and Alex know what that is).  As we know, new technology gets introduced, manufacturers release the next upgrade, etc.  Waiting is sometimes very helpful to the long-term direction of your system.  However you proceed, have fun!

[PYP]

31 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

I agree with R1200. The fiber>RJ45 SFP transceiver is inferior, but not the SFP fiber straight through transceiver. So if you have someplace that fiber can come from (a switch or best an opticalModule then it makes sense to use the SFP input on the eR. But it doesn't make sense to try and convert ethernet to fiber with a specialized SFP. Just use the ethernet inputs if the cable you have is RJ45. 

In my setup, copper ethernet >> opticalModule >>1m fiber (multimode) >>eR sounds better than copper ethernet >> eR.

Wasn't sure what to expect, but the better sound didn't surprise me either given the advantages of fiber.  Only downside was our kitten's long reach, but he has shown less interest lately as he moves onto larger prey.  

 

[PYP]

5 minutes ago, Superdad said:

Well we know cats love laser light, so perhaps that's the attraction.

 

Speaking of which, I wanted to name our last feline either "Jitter" or "CAT8" but my wife cancelled that.  Maybe next time...

Should have started with "leakage current" and then moved on to your other choices.   By contrast, they might have seemed better.  Then again, your wife wouldn't fall for that.  Hope your feline heals quickly.  

[PYP]

4 minutes ago, agladstone said:

Is there any difference in results and/or sound quality with EtherRegen going A to B as designed vs going B to A ? 
Also, if I now have copper only, will it make a big difference for me to incorporate Fiber using an OM or similar to go copper -> fiber -> B side to A side, or should I just keep all copper and go A to B ? 

Alex has said there is no difference A to B or B to A.  Moat works both ways.

Fiber is accepted by the A side only.  The B side accepts or outputs copper ethernet only.

[PYP]

8 minutes ago, James Stephens said:

" slight increase in phase noise of the clock when going from B to A"

 

i.e best to clock the signal on the output side of the moat.

Does that refer to the eR's internal clock?  (the link didn't land on Alex's answer).

Not sure what you meant by "best to clock the signal on the output side of the moat."  The only clock connection is to the output side (B side)....  

[PYP]

7 minutes ago, James Stephens said:

 

Hi. I was linking to John's long post.

 

It applies whatever clock you use, internal or external - when the ER is reversed the clock signal, being on the B-side, now has the moat to negotiate before going out the A-side to your DAC, hence the small increase in phase noise.

 

Best,

James

OK.  Thanks.  I'm going to do that experiment for myself.   Will add a second eR this weekend and let it settle in.  Once it is settles in, I'll turn around eR #1.   The chain will be oM > fiber > eR #2 > copper ethernet > eR#1 > copper ethernet > DAC.

[PYP]

Just now, chungjh said:

That is great. I am really curious about whether a second ER makes a noticeable sq improvement.

me too.  Of course, it must be system dependent.  Unlike others here, I use the ISP router/wifi as is.  It is plugged into a balanced power unit (with TV, etc.), but does not have a dedicated power supply.   Probably spitting out all kinds of noise.  I think the in-wall cat5 might also be susceptible to noise from other stuff in the wall (just an assumption).  With an optimized upstream chain, perhaps the results would be different.  At any rate, I'm already down this hole with the rest of the lagomorphs.   

[PYP]

2 minutes ago, Ponkbutler said:

It does, lowering the noise floor a little further and bring enhanced air and ease, but it’s a fairly subtle improvement.

Thanks.  That is all I'm expecting, but had to find out for myself in my system.  Staying inside so much does contribute to this kind of thing.  So I keep telling myself.  

[PYP]

2 hours ago, James Stephens said:

I am currently using StarTech SFP1000ZXST 1000BASE-ZX SFP modules over OS2 fiber between my OM and ER. These are 1550nm, single mode, 70km, modules. I'm not using any attenuators.

That is interesting.  What is the length of the OS fiber cable you are using?

 

SFP modules seem robust except for the connectors, which look fragile.  Have you had any issues yanking the old ones out?  

[PYP]

I'm considering further pampering my eR, which is powered by an LPS 1.2, by replacing the 1.2's stock DC cable.

 

Any suggestions for a DC cable with 5.5mm x 2.1mm plugs at both ends?  

 

Thanks.