EtherREGEN: Installation, Usage, Difficulty, Questions thread

[Superdad]

25 minutes ago, Schafheide said:

I would like to use fibre optic between ER and Holo Red.  Is it OK to reverse the connections to the ER ie B - in & A - out ?  If so does the effect the SQ of the ER?

A great product!

Well We went to extra trouble and expense to make the EtherREGEN symmetrical about its moat (i.e. differential clocking and reclocking and all super voltage regulation is the same both sides) just so that B>A performance would be equal to A>B. Main reason we did it was for optical endpoint users (opticalRendu, Lumin X1, etc.) but there are other uses for B>A connection, such as multiple endpoints or issues of power supply.

 

However, your question is confusing since the Holo RED streamer does not have an SFP cage to accept an optical Ethernet transceiver. 

And since you definitely want the EtherREGEN to be the last Ethernet element in the chain, I can’t see putting any other fiber media converter in between it and the Holo RED.

[Schafheide]

Touche! My apologies!  After looking at the block diagram in their famous manual, I can now see that the only i/p's are either ethernet & usb.

In any case, like many others, I am looking forward to the Gen 2.  Any idea when they will be available?

[Schafheide]

@Superdad

Thank you for your informative response.

No doubt you get many inane requests, so the fact that you responded, in a very neutral way, to my question,  is a credit to you and UpTone Audio.  Most appreciated!

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, Schafheide said:

In any case, like many others, I am looking forward to the Gen 2.  Any idea when they will be available?

Inching closer each week. Right now John is battling some programming hurdle with the brand new PHY chip we are using (documentation for new chips always has a few gapping holes that the first adopters get to call to the attention of the manufacturer ;-().

So we can’t plot the exact timeline to launch just yet. Should know more in a week or two. 
 

9 minutes ago, Schafheide said:

No doubt you get many inane requests, so the fact that you responded, in a very neutral way, to my question,  is a credit to you and UpTone Audio.  Most appreciated!

 
No worries at all. My pleasure. Besides, actual inane requests usually come to me via long and confusing emails.  

[richard_crl032]

2 minutes ago, Superdad said:

Inching closer each week. Right now John is battling some programming hurdle with the brand new PHY chip we are using (documentation for new chips always has a few gapping holes that the first adopters get to call to the attention of the manufacturer ;-().

So we can’t plot the exact timeline to launch just yet. Should know more in a week or two. 
 

🤞🤞🤞 waiting earnestly (and impatiently) after sold off 1 of 2 gen1 version in anticipation 😈😈😈

[Mike Rubin]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

No worries at all. My pleasure. Besides, actual inane requests usually come to me via long and confusing emails.  

Hey, I resemble that remark!

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, Mike Rubin said:

Hey, I resemble that remark!

Sorry Mike but your emails are much too short to fit in my category of “inane.” 
 

[But really, I was just kidding as I welcome any length letters. I just don’t often have the time to become “pen pals” with too many folks…]

[Qstik]

Well, it finally happened.

 

I was hoping that my 3 year old EtherRegen would last until Gen2 was available; but unfortunately it appears that it has died.

 

I've been concerned since I got it that it ran hotter than I like.  Because of that I glued a 80mm x 80mm x 20mm aluminum heatsink to the top of it with thermal paste in the first few months of ownership.  Cooler temps may not have been necessary but it certainly wouldn't hurt, I reasoned.  Associated equipment: a Ferrum Hypsos hybrid PS at 12v and an AfterDark Emperor Double Crown Master Clock.

 

For some months now I have been having periodic problems with seeing my DDC device IP address on Spotify startup.  Multiple power restarts of my ER and my DDC (was a Pi2AES for 2 years, now a Holo Red for last 4 months) usually fixed the problem.  However, today that no longer works.  Today my ER seemed to be running exceptionally hotter than normal.  The heat sink was normally warm to the touch.  Today it was hot to the touch.  I tried all 4 A-side ethernet ports, but none worked.  I'm pretty sure it's dead.  I will try it one more time once it has cooled overnight, but I have no hope that cold restarting will fix it.  For stability and SQ, I usually left the ER, master clock, and my DDC running all the time.  They sit on the top shelf of my open AV rack with plenty of air around them.

 

I will have to make a determination after ER Gen2 comes out whether it also runs hot.  If so, I might try to heat-sink it internally, add a cooling fan and/or run it without a case.  Three year device life due to thermal issues is not acceptable in my book for a relatively expensive niche product.  Maybe not the same failure cause, but my very hot-running Uptone LPS 1.2 also died after 3 years. 

[Superdad]

3 hours ago, Qstik said:

Well, it finally happened.

 

I was hoping that my 3 year old EtherRegen would last until Gen2 was available; but unfortunately it appears that it has died.

 

I've been concerned since I got it that it ran hotter than I like.  Because of that I glued a 80mm x 80mm x 20mm aluminum heatsink to the top of it with thermal paste in the first few months of ownership.  Cooler temps may not have been necessary but it certainly wouldn't hurt, I reasoned.  Associated equipment: a Ferrum Hypsos hybrid PS at 12v and an AfterDark Emperor Double Crown Master Clock.

 

For some months now I have been having periodic problems with seeing my DDC device IP address on Spotify startup.  Multiple power restarts of my ER and my DDC (was a Pi2AES for 2 years, now a Holo Red for last 4 months) usually fixed the problem.  However, today that no longer works.  Today my ER seemed to be running exceptionally hotter than normal.  The heat sink was normally warm to the touch.  Today it was hot to the touch.  I tried all 4 A-side ethernet ports, but none worked.  I'm pretty sure it's dead.  I will try it one more time once it has cooled overnight, but I have no hope that cold restarting will fix it.  For stability and SQ, I usually left the ER, master clock, and my DDC running all the time.  They sit on the top shelf of my open AV rack with plenty of air around them.

 

I will have to make a determination after ER Gen2 comes out whether it also runs hot.  If so, I might try to heat-sink it internally, add a cooling fan and/or run it without a case.  Three year device life due to thermal issues is not acceptable in my book for a relatively expensive niche product.  Maybe not the same failure cause, but my very hot-running Uptone LPS 1.2 also died after 3 years. 

 

Hi:

Sorry to hear that you are having some difficulty with the EtherREGEN in your system.  Actual EtherREGEN failure is extremely rare, so let's see if we can assist.

 

First I'd like to clear up some things:

Yes the EtherREGEN runs hot--48~52C, just as indicated in the User Guide. There are heatsinks on the board, and the case acts as final heatsink to the outside air.

However, with 3,200 units in the field I can assure you that failure from heat has not been an issue.

And if a unit does fail for any reason it does NOT then run hotter than usual as you indicate. More likely to be the opposite--cooler. For example, if a voltage regulator fails (there are 27 of them on the board), it will shut down--and whatever logic part it was powering will also then be off.

The only thing that makes the EtherREGEN's heat vary (and then just slightly) is how many active Gigabit connections someone has to the 'A' side RJ45 ports.

So your subjective perception of the unit running hotter than usual is most likely because you happen to be touching it more during testing and feeling how hot it gets as usual--versus it just sitting there. That and it is summertime and the ambient temps in your room may be warmer, limiting the case's ability to dissipate.

 

So now to troubleshoot:

The #1 cause of connectivity issues with EtherREGEN is use of an external reference clock.  The EtherREGEN's very high-speed reclocking circuitry (our special ultra-low-jitter flip-flops run at 250MHz) is not tolerant of any glitch longer than about 3 microseconds. The 'A' side might recover, but the 'B' side will not--until power is removed and reapplied.  And of course when using an external reference clock that clock must be attached and running at the time power is applied to the EtherREGEN.

 

So let’s test your EtherREGEN just as a switch—outside of your music system, and without your external reference clock—by following these steps in order:

1) Be sure that the Clock switch of the EtherREGEN is in the INT position.

2) Remove power from the EtherREGEN and then reapply power to it. [For this test, use the included UpTone-branded 36W AC>DC adapter brick--not any third-party power supply.]

3) Attach network feed into an ‘A’ side port. You should see an amber LED flickering over that port. 

4) Attach a (powered on) standard computer with display screen into ‘B’ side.  Wait a moment and you should see the green LED flickering.

5) Launch a web browser and try to browse internet with that computer. 

 

Report all results (including if the LEDs look different than above).

If you are unable to get on the internet with your computer attached to the ‘B’ port, try moving the computer to one of the ‘A’ side ports—alongside your network feed.  Again report results.

EtherREGEN is an unmanaged switch and should just work. If you can not get computer onto the internet through the EtherREGEN, then please try different LAN cables—both to the EtherREGEN from router and to computer from EtherREGEN.

 

If you can get on the internet through the above tests, then we reattach to your music system, though I prefer to handle support via direct e-mail rather than via forum posts.

Also, if I know your real name we can look up your order and see if your unit qualifies for a special firmware update.

 

Thanks and regards,

--Alex C.

[SQFIRST]

Nice refresher on the ER workings and I always get some finer detail each time I read into your and John's posts @Superdad

Just want to add that I have found it beneficial to run a single signal into the ER A side and avoid the switching process inside the ER. I have noticed this provides optimal sound in my setup. Reading the above post I now see that it helps the ER run cooler as well.

[Qstik]

16 hours ago, Superdad said:

So let’s test your EtherREGEN just as a switch—outside of your music system, and without your external reference clock—by following these steps in order:

1) Be sure that the Clock switch of the EtherREGEN is in the INT position.

2) Remove power from the EtherREGEN and then reapply power to it. [For this test, use the included UpTone-branded 36W AC>DC adapter brick--not any third-party power supply.]

3) Attach network feed into an ‘A’ side port. You should see an amber LED flickering over that port. 

4) Attach a (powered on) standard computer with display screen into ‘B’ side.  Wait a moment and you should see the green LED flickering.

5) Launch a web browser and try to browse internet with that computer. 

 

Report all results (including if the LEDs look different than above).

If you are unable to get on the internet with your computer attached to the ‘B’ port, try moving the computer to one of the ‘A’ side ports—alongside your network feed.  Again report results.

EtherREGEN is an unmanaged switch and should just work. If you can not get computer onto the internet through the EtherREGEN, then please try different LAN cables—both to the EtherREGEN from router and to computer from EtherREGEN.

 

So I reported to Superdad that I completed his diagnostics to the letter.  I could not get my ER to work feeding through from A-side to B-side.  I was only able to get it to work as a simple switch from A-side to A-side.

 

I am waiting to hear back from him, but I doubt there is anything Alex can do for me at this point.  If I'm wrong, I will let everyone know. 

[Schafheide]

I am curious -

My setup is the same as set out in the guide ie

My Modem/Router, my Mac Mini (HQPlayer) & NAS are all connected to the A side of my EtherRegen.

On the B side, first is Holo Audio Red (NAA/DDC), then Holo Audio May.

My question is - from the point of view of overall SQ, how important is the ethernet connection between the EtherRegen and the Router, and the Router itself?

[GryphonGuy]

1 hour ago, Schafheide said:

I am curious -

My setup is the same as set out in the guide ie

My Modem/Router, my Mac Mini (HQPlayer) & NAS are all connected to the A side of my EtherRegen.

On the B side, first is Holo Audio Red (NAA/DDC), then Holo Audio May.

My question is - from the point of view of overall SQ, how important is the ethernet connection between the EtherRegen and the Router, and the Router itself?

 

If you were to be sending audio packets over a bigger network, the musical data link from your EtherRegen to other network devices (meaning switches, routers and end-points) is very important. That SFP port on the "A" side of EtherRegen can be put to amazing use by having single-mode fibre and appropriate transceivers there and at the other end of the network connection. It sounds way better that way.....

 

BUT...

 

since you have all your music devices connected to one EtherRegen, the EtherRegen should know which ports to send and receive things  based on the MAC addresses of each item connected to it (it does this all by itself). A MAC address is made up of 6 hexadecimal numbers each containing 2 digits...for example 00:0a:95:9d:67:16. Each device has one per ethernet port.  Music data should not need to go back to your router during playback. So in your system as you've described it, the PC on the "A" side will draw the music data from the NAS also on the "A" side and then send the music data through to the Holo Red on the "B" side.

 

The only thing you might like to try is a higher quality ethernet cable from the "B" side to the Holo Red. You may hear a difference. If not, no worries, you don't have to hear everything. If so, you are on a slippery slope of finding your nirvana in ethernet cables. (They DO make a difference if both your ears and gear are up to the task).

 

Like I said, if you don't hear any differences, yay! that's also good for you and your wallet.

 

Regards

GG

[SQFIRST]

Nice breakdown @GryphonGuy, adding that any music from the internet (Tidal/Qobuz/Spotify etc) will pass through the router's WAN side (NAS etc. are on the LAN) and those ethernet connections will also matter. I have noticed that the ER is a strange device in that it favors basic CAT5e ethernet cables on both sides. I would highly recommend trying out specifications for yourself as every setup is different.

[audiobomber]

1 hour ago, SQFIRST said:

I have noticed that the ER is a strange device in that it favors basic CAT5e ethernet cables on both sides. I would highly recommend trying out specifications for yourself as every setup is different.

I've tried numerous CAT5e, 6, 6a, 7 and CAT8 cables. IME, no UTP cables sound as good as shielded cables, but you have to know to handle shield grounding properly.

7 hours ago, Schafheide said:

My question is - from the point of view of overall SQ, how important is the ethernet connection between the EtherRegen and the Router, and the Router itself?

All ethernet cables in the chain are important, because all affect sound quality. The last cable before the DAC is the most important.

 

The router definitely has an impact on sound quality, but there doesn't seem to be much of a market for audiophile routers. I've used an upgraded SMPS and a linear power supply and found noticeable improvements. 

[Schafheide]

21 hours ago, GryphonGuy said:

 

If you were to be sending audio packets over a bigger network, the musical data link from your EtherRegen to other network devices (meaning switches, routers and end-points) is very important. That SFP port on the "A" side of EtherRegen can be put to amazing use by having single-mode fibre and appropriate transceivers there and at the other end of the network connection. It sounds way better that way.....

 

BUT...

 

since you have all your music devices connected to one EtherRegen, the EtherRegen should know which ports to send and receive things  based on the MAC addresses of each item connected to it (it does this all by itself). A MAC address is made up of 6 hexadecimal numbers each containing 2 digits...for example 00:0a:95:9d:67:16. Each device has one per ethernet port.  Music data should not need to go back to your router during playback. So in your system as you've described it, the PC on the "A" side will draw the music data from the NAS also on the "A" side and then send the music data through to the Holo Red on the "B" side.

 

The only thing you might like to try is a higher quality ethernet cable from the "B" side to the Holo Red. You may hear a difference. If not, no worries, you don't have to hear everything. If so, you are on a slippery slope of finding your nirvana in ethernet cables. (They DO make a difference if both your ears and gear are up to the task).

 

Like I said, if you don't hear any differences, yay! that's also good for you and your wallet.

 

Regards

GG

Thank you GG for confirming what I had hoped!

For the present, B to Red is an Afterdark cable.

This arrangement is extremely satisfying but, no doubt, things will change when I eventually install the EtherRegen Gen 2.

[Schafheide]

On 7/15/2023 at 2:05 AM, audiobomber said:

I've tried numerous CAT5e, 6, 6a, 7 and CAT8 cables. IME, no UTP cables sound as good as shielded cables, but you have to know to handle shield grounding properly.

All ethernet cables in the chain are important, because all affect sound quality. The last cable before the DAC is the most important.

 

The router definitely has an impact on sound quality, but there doesn't seem to be much of a market for audiophile routers. I've used an upgraded SMPS and a linear power supply and found noticeable improvements. 

Fortunately for me, all of my files are on my NAS.

BUT I note that, unless I have an internet connection, my sound system does not work.

So, the Router and the cable to my EtherRegen is involved.

But, also unfortunately for me, my Router has to be Australian NBN compliant and have VoIP compliancy.

Maybe an Aussie user can help me select the most "audiophile" Router for my situation. ??

[Larold]

Hello, I am having a problem with my EtherREGEN. We had an electrical storm a couple of weeks back. Lightning caused a brief power outage. Since that time, my BlueSound Node 2i will not connect to the network through the EtherREGEN. It will connect to the router directly, so the Node is not the issue and BlueSound tech support confirms the Node is working correctly.

However, when I insert the EtherREGEN into the network between the Node and the Router, the name of the Node disappears from the Node's "MyPlayers" drawer, music does not play and album selection on my iPad is not possible.

Is there something that could have happened to the EtherREGEN at the time of out outage that I can change to remedy the situation?

If not, is there something Uptone can do by sending it in?

I would appreciate your advice on this.

Larold

[Superdad]

38 minutes ago, Larold said:

Is there something that could have happened to the EtherREGEN at the time of out outage that I can change to remedy the situation?

 

Hi Larold:

Sorry to hear of your difficulty.

Before having you send it in, let’s test your EtherREGEN just as a switch—outside of your music system--by following these steps in order:

1) Be sure that the Clock switch of the EtherREGEN is in the INT position.

2) Remove power from the EtherREGEN and then reapply power to it. [For this test, use the included UpTone-branded 36W AC>DC adapter brick--not any third-party power supply.]

3) Attach network feed into an ‘A’ side port. You should see an amber LED flickering over that port. 

4) Attach a (powered on) standard computer with display screen into ‘B’ side.  Wait a moment and you should see the green LED flickering.

5) Launch a web browser and try to browse internet with that computer. 

 

Report all results (including if the LEDs look different than above).

If you are unable to get on the internet with your computer attached to the ‘B’ port, try moving the computer to one of the ‘A’ side ports—alongside your network feed.  Again report results. EtherREGEN is an unmanaged switch and should just work.

 

We look forward to assisting you further,

--Alex C.

[Larold]

Thank you!  I forgot. When in doubt, reboot everything. I rebooted the Node, the Router, even the cable modem, but not the EtherREGEN. That resulted in the predicted flashing green light on the B side and a thoroughly functioning browser connection. And when I reconnected the EtherREGEN back the Node, it works just fine now too!

Thank you. I will remember this lesson.

 

Larold

[Qstik]

On 7/7/2023 at 4:01 PM, Qstik said:

So I reported to Superdad that I completed his diagnostics to the letter.  I could not get my ER to work feeding through from A-side to B-side.  I was only able to get it to work as a simple switch from A-side to A-side.

 

I am waiting to hear back from him, but I doubt there is anything Alex can do for me at this point.  If I'm wrong, I will let everyone know. 

 

Just an update as I promised:

I sent my ER to Alex at his location in California.  He could not find anything wrong with it!  He let it run continuously for a number of days and it never failed.  He notified me of such and I agreed that he should just send it back to me.  I received it weeks ago now, immediately hooked it up and, yes, it is working fine for me also!  Yes, I had tried multiple cold reboots of my entire system before sending it in to Alex.  I also moved it to an entirely new switch, cables and computer system before sending it in.  It is a complete mystery why it is working now.  Out of an abundance of caution, I am running the ER circuit board in open air (without its case) on a piece of plastic for electrical insulation.  Temps at several of the heat sinks are still around 65 deg.C (150 deg.F).  Alex assures me that those temps are normal and within component specs.   

 

Once again, Alex has demonstrated outstanding customer support.  Although out of warranty, he did not charge me for his diagnostics or return shipping.  

[Schafheide]

At present I listen to DSD512 with the following connections to my EtherRegen.

A side has Router, PC & NAS connected.  B side is connected to my Holo Red (NAA & DDC).

Until the Gen 2 is available, what connections would you advise for DSD1024?

I was thinking of the following -

A side - PC, NAS & Holo Red. B side - Router.

[Superdad]

2 minutes ago, Schafheide said:

At present I listen to DSD512 with the following connections to my EtherRegen.

A side has Router, PC & NAS connected.  B side is connected to my Holo Red (NAA & DDC).

Until the Gen 2 is available, what connections would you advise for DSD1024?

I was thinking of the following -

A side - PC, NAS & Holo Red. B side - Router.

 

Certainly you will not be able to get DSD1024 through the 100Mbps 'B' port. (EtherREGEN Gen2 with Gigabit on the 'B' side will solve that.) 

 

Your idea--of putting the network feed on the 'B' side and everything else on the Gigabit 'A'-side ports will work.

 

But depending upon what software you are running and where the heavy-duty convolution to DSD1024 is occurring, you might be able to get away with putting the NAS (likely with its noisy/leakage SMPS) further upstream--now the 'B' side.  And just have your PC and the Holo Red on the 'A' ports. That might sound better.  

Just put a cheap $20 switch before the EtherREGEN--network feed into that cheap switch, NAS into that cheap switch, and then cable from that cheap switch to the 'B' port of the EtherREGEN.  100Mbps of your Redbook CD files (or even DSD64 or up to PCM192) from your NAS though the EtherREGEN to your upsampling PC should be fine.

 

Experiment and see what works! 

[Schafheide]

Thank you, I have decided to go with your advice. All is good.

But still cannot wait for Gen 2 !!!!

As always, I am always grateful for your quick response to any of my silly problems.

[Schafheide]

I tried your suggestion, but I was limited to PCM88.2 max. I assume due to network load, because with NAS connected as per my proposal, I can go all the way to DXD.  Does this make sense?

(The NAS has an LPS rather than the supplied SMPS.)