Hqplayer: best NAA with best sound quality

[SwissBear]

I was kind of surprised to notice an audible difference between two NAAs (same machines UP gateway, ATOM x5-Z8350), one with the standard NAA image of Jussi and the other with the HQPe image, after disabling 2 services: hqplayerd and hqpwv.

The HPQe image offered much better micro-dynamics of the music, better timbres, etc... Both NAAs where powered by Paul Hynes SR7MR4 PSU. HQPlayer embedded was used upsampling at DSD512 with ASDM7ECv2 modulators. Holo May DAC.

Not sure why, but if this experience can motivate others to try for themselves, I thought I should share 😉 

[dericchan1]

7 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Approach 1 is closer to the recommended one, if you change picture such way that also NAS is connected to the QNAP switch instead of Mac Mini.

 

Approach 2 doesn't have any advantages, just unnecessary extra hardware.

 

Switches are intended to be star points where you have all the devices connected, allowing each to communicate with each other.

 

Miska, so basically means 1) there is no need to introduce a FMC? 2) SFP+ connection between switch to fitlet2 is key (say for a pc, there is no need to install a intel x520 Sfp+ connection to the switch? 
 

Thanks

 

Deric

[Quokka_61]

@Miska Thank you for your reply, this is actually what I hoped for, since the first approach saves me quite some hassle (and money). As to my setup; only after reading your remark did I see that I made a mistake in the two pictures. The NAS and the Mac Mini are located on different floors of the house, and so they are not directly connected to each other, but via the switch. The correct pictures should have been as follows:

 

 

[Miska]

22 minutes ago, dericchan1 said:

Miska, so basically means 1) there is no need to introduce a FMC? 2) SFP+ connection between switch to fitlet2 is key (say for a pc, there is no need to install a intel x520 Sfp+ connection to the switch? 

 

Yes, having NAA behind the optical is the key.

 

7 minutes ago, Quokka_61 said:

The NAS and the Mac Mini are located on different floors of the house, and so they are not directly connected to each other, but via the switch. The correct pictures should have been as follows:

 

 

OK, good, the Approach 1 is what I'd recommend and how I set up things.

 

Approach 2 adds one potential problem point without providing advantages.

 

Now, last important thing to ensure is that 802.3x Flow Control becomes active over the links. This avoids congestion and potential packet losses. Sometimes fiber modules don't support this, so it is important detail to pay attention to.

 

It is also very much recommended to check that 802.1p CoS / DiffServ is supported/functional.

 

[zoltan]

7 hours ago, SwissBear said:

I was kind of surprised to notice an audible difference between two NAAs (same machines UP gateway, ATOM x5-Z8350), one with the standard NAA image of Jussi and the other with the HQPe image, after disabling 2 services: hqplayerd and hqpwv.

The HPQe image offered much better micro-dynamics of the music, better timbres, etc... Both NAAs where powered by Paul Hynes SR7MR4 PSU. HQPlayer embedded was used upsampling at DSD512 with ASDM7ECv2 modulators. Holo May DAC.

Not sure why, but if this experience can motivate others to try for themselves, I thought I should share 😉 

Did you change from SOtM sms-200 ultra to UP gateway? Is it better? Also, what did you get instead of the Devialet?

[musicjunkie917]

For an NAA, is the Up Board that Jussi recommends on his web site any better or worse sounding that the Fitlet2? How about compared to an ultraRendu?

 

Keep in mind that I have no plans to use fiber in my setup and plan on using USB into my May KTE.

[SwissBear]

3 hours ago, zoltan said:

Did you change from SOtM sms-200 ultra to UP gateway? Is it better? Also, what did you get instead of the Devialet?

 

Hi Zoltan,

Yes I made the move from SOtM sms-200 Ultra to UP Gateway. I have the feeling that the UP Gateway is more powerful and supports all the formats that HQPlayer is able to produce, including DSD 1024 where I had trouble with the sms-200. As I am only using HQPlayer as music player this was a very sensible move for me. I sincerely appreciate the qualities of this small and relatively inexpensive box.

As far as replacing the Devialet is concerned, it has been an interesting journey. To make a long story short, I have an Holo May Level 2 as my main DAC. with Benchmark Media HPA-4 and AHB2 for the amplification. It's really awesome 😀

[Quokka_61]

13 hours ago, Miska said:

Now, last important thing to ensure is that 802.3x Flow Control becomes active over the links. This avoids congestion and potential packet losses. Sometimes fiber modules don't support this, so it is important detail to pay attention to.

 

It is also very much recommended to check that 802.1p CoS / DiffServ is supported/functional.

 

@Miska Thank you very much for this, these are the kind of details I'd simply never thought about myself. I checked the specifications of my managed switch, and it seems that at this end I am good:

 

 

I checked the current settings of the  switch, and saw that in the past I already activated both 802.3x Flow Control and CoS Inspection for each and every port. However, since I don't have a VLAN (with which CoS Inspection specifically deals, as far as I understand), I may choose to toggle CoS Inspection off and DSCP Inspection on, if that proves to be necessary. 

 

As to SFP+ modules, I am considering the Finisar FTLX1475D3BTL, which appears to be well received in other threads on this forum. Are there any other details I need to take into account in this respect, or with regard to the single-mode OS1 fiber that I'll be needing?

[Miska]

7 hours ago, musicjunkie917 said:

For an NAA, is the Up Board that Jussi recommends on his web site any better or worse sounding that the Fitlet2? How about compared to an ultraRendu?

 

Main difference is that I believe UP feeds 5V straight from the PSU input to the USB VBUS (through standard USB current protection circuitry of course). While Fitlet2 being 12V device needs to use onboard regulators to produce 5V USB power.

 

Other than that, the two are pretty similar.

 

[Miska]

44 minutes ago, Quokka_61 said:

 

@Miska Thank you very much for this, these are the kind of details I'd simply never thought about myself. I checked the specifications of my managed switch, and it seems that at this end I am good:

 

 

I checked the current settings of the  switch, and saw that in the past I already activated both 802.3x Flow Control and CoS Inspection for each and every port. However, since I don't have a VLAN (with which CoS Inspection specifically deals, as far as I understand), I may choose to toggle CoS Inspection off and DSCP Inspection on, if that proves to be necessary. 

 

That should be good. 802.1p shouldn't require use of VLANs. But if it is mutually exclusive with other QoS types in the configuration, you can also use DSCP or ToS. DSCP being the most advanced of these. I usually leave support for all those types enabled in my switch configurations. There's pre-defined table how those are mapped to the internal priority queues (on Cisco for example).

 

HQPlayer sets CoS/ToS/DSCP flags so any of those methods should work.

 

There may be also statistics available, so you could check while playback is proceeding if the priority queues are active correctly.

 

44 minutes ago, Quokka_61 said:

As to SFP+ modules, I am considering the Finisar FTLX1475D3BTL, which appears to be well received in other threads on this forum. Are there any other details I need to take into account in this respect, or with regard to the single-mode OS1 fiber that I'll be needing?

 

Not really, if possible, you can check from NAA if the flow control is active.

root@linux-wks:~# ethtool -a enp7s0
Pause parameters for enp7s0:
Autonegotiate:	on
RX:		on
TX:		on

 

[camott]

On 1/10/2022 at 3:36 PM, sledwards said:

@MiskaSorry, I guess I was confused and just read your earlier post about this. NAA OS requires a single port have I have two. I will continue to use HQPlayer OS for NAA and have try disabling hqplayerd.

 

It is possible to run the NAA image on the fitlet2 by disabling any unwanted ethernet ports in the BIOS. 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/63638-fitlet2-as-hqplayer-naa/?do=findComment&comment=1178162

 

[sledwards]

1 hour ago, camott said:

It is possible to run the NAA image on the fitlet2 by disabling any unwanted ethernet ports in the BIOS. 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/63638-fitlet2-as-hqplayer-naa/?do=findComment&comment=1178162

Unfortunately my extra ports are on a PCI-E network card and ASUS Bios does not offer a way to disable them, just the onboard Realtek Ethernet 

[Foggie]

On 1/13/2022 at 10:33 AM, MrDerrick said:

Did you try restarting your NAA?

Sometimes when I change settings in HQPlayer it sounds like something has lost its "lock".

Restarting NAA cures the problem.

Yep, did the restart, no change. 

[FooFighter]

On 6/7/2020 at 4:39 PM, brother love said:

NAA

 

On 6/7/2020 at 4:39 PM, brother love said:

Since I can no longer edit my post above (why?), corrections for x5-z8350 mini-pc as noted below ...

 

step 1: press Delete key rapidly on startup to access setup utility, change boot priority #1 to USB Key, save & exit, shutdown mini-pc.

 

step 2: insert USB flash drive, press F7 key rapidly on startup to access USB flash drive, select UEFI: 8.07, Partition 1, select boot for HQP NAA to do it's thing, unplug mini-pc.

 

step 3: starting mini-pc initiates HQP NAA & should now be recognized by HQPlayer installed on server. Unplug mini-pc when finished.

 

If you access setup utility... fixed boot priority #1 is USB Key: UEFI 8.07 Partition 1 & boot option #1 is UEFI: 8.07, Partition 1

 

Removing USB flash drive results in mini pc reverting to Windows OS (& steps above must be repeated for USB NAA).

Hi 

I just received my new UP Gateway and wanted to enter the BIOS to change the boot order by pressing <DEL> key and am asked a BIOS password...

There's no documentation attached to the hardware - anyone knowing the default password?

[FooFighter]

11 minutes ago, FooFighter said:

 

Hi 

I just received my new UP Gateway and wanted to enter the BIOS to change the boot order by pressing <DEL> key and am asked a BIOS password...

There's no documentation attached to the hardware - anyone knowing the default password?

gosh, I just need to press Enter to get into the BIOS with user level which is enough to configure the boot-order

[FooFighter]

Miska, how can I reboot the UP gateway NAA without just unplugging and replugging the power cable?

Once I want to directly connect my DAC to another source the device connection to HQPlayer is lost and cannot be re-established by just replugging the USB cable as it seems.

So I assume the NAA will need to be rebooted in such cases each time?

[SwissBear]

6 hours ago, FooFighter said:

gosh, I just need to press Enter to get into the BIOS with user level which is enough to configure the boot-order

 

You will find the firmware access information here: https://github.com/up-board/up-community/wiki/Firmware

[Miska]

1 hour ago, FooFighter said:

Miska, how can I reboot the UP gateway NAA without just unplugging and replugging the power cable?

Once I want to directly connect my DAC to another source the device connection to HQPlayer is lost and cannot be re-established by just replugging the USB cable as it seems.

So I assume the NAA will need to be rebooted in such cases each time?

 

Close HQPlayer before doing so. Then restart HQPlayer once the DAC is back.

 

[FooFighter]

I have recognized a clear audible difference playing Qobuz directly out of HQPLAYER to my UP Gateway NAA vs Roon to HQPlayer to NAA.

There's a small veil on top playing out of Roon though no additional processing is involved in the signal path.

Has this topic yet been discussed somewhere?

I d like to keep Roon for the interface, song texts, context information but don't want to compromise on SQ...

[Crom]

me too: https://community.roonlabs.com/t/option-to-replace-playback-engine-entirely-with-hqplayer/182473

 

[FooFighter]

36 minutes ago, Crom said:

me too: https://community.roonlabs.com/t/option-to-replace-playback-engine-entirely-with-hqplayer/182473

 

Thx, have posted my impressions there just now 

[Achim]

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ACEPC-T11-64GB-x5-Z8350-Computer/dp/B07P9GVDTQ

 

@Miska Hi Jussi,

 

I got one of the Acepc Z8350 computers as NAA - unfortunately the thing does not boot correctly with your latest NAA image. Boot hangs at "A start job is running for wait for network to be configured" infinitely.

 

If I plug in the same network cable into my Thinkpad and boot with the same USB stick, everything works.

 

Which Linux live image could I download to test the Acepc with? The installed Win10 works well.

[Achim]

Additionally: With the installed Win10 on the Acepc, Win-NAA works fine.

 

But I would prefer the lighter Linux image.

[Miska]

4 hours ago, Achim said:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ACEPC-T11-64GB-x5-Z8350-Computer/dp/B07P9GVDTQ

 

@Miska Hi Jussi,

 

I got one of the Acepc Z8350 computers as NAA - unfortunately the thing does not boot correctly with your latest NAA image. Boot hangs at "A start job is running for wait for network to be configured" infinitely.

 

If I plug in the same network cable into my Thinkpad and boot with the same USB stick, everything works.

 

Which Linux live image could I download to test the Acepc with? The installed Win10 works well.

 

That link doesn't work. But if the device has more than one ethernet port, you would need to have proper network behind each.

 

You can use HQPlayer OS image (and disable hqplayerd and hqpwv there) as alternative, or even better, modify network configuration on the NAA OS image to use only the interface you want.

 

[sledwards]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

You can use HQPlayer OS image (and disable hqplayerd and hqpwv there) as alternative, or even better, modify network configuration on the NAA OS image to use only the interface you want.

Miska:

 

I know you have made it clear in the past you really don't like providing Linux scripting/command instruction, but now several users (including myself) have indicated that more specific instructions on disabling a port (not bridging) would be very helpful. Is this something you have performed on your own hardware?  I think the man pages you provided are above most users understanding of network architecture.