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Hqplayer: best NAA with best sound quality


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@miska 

Hi

There are so many possibilities and I would like to break  it down to some recommendations?

 

when the server is ideal ( will never happen)- what is the preferred hardware for great sound quality. What is the recommended solution for an NAA endpoint. you make a bootable image for low power systems...or sms200neo or a beefy pink faun server...

 

thanks for helping

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  • 9 months later...

This is something I'm researching right now. I have every Rendu Sonore has made and I swear by them as the best endpoints available. However, the limitation is native DSD. Yes, native DSD works for some DACs with the Rendu series but other DACs only support their max sample rates using Windows drivers. For example, I have an Auralic Altair G1 that I'm reviewing right now and the Rendu doesn't support DSD512 when connected to it. I have to use a Windows machine with the Auralic driver for DSD512. 

 

If @vortecjr could get native DSD and higher rates like DSD512 working with more DACs, then I'd have no need to look for additional NAA windows options. I know it isn't up to Sonore, but the company has played a big role in getting more native DSD support in Linux.

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28 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

This is something I'm researching right now. I have every Rendu Sonore has made and I swear by them as the best endpoints available. However, the limitation is native DSD. Yes, native DSD works for some DACs with the Rendu series but other DACs only support their max sample rates using Windows drivers. For example, I have an Auralic Altair G1 that I'm reviewing right now and the Rendu doesn't support DSD512 when connected to it. I have to use a Windows machine with the Auralic driver for DSD512. 

 

This is, frankly, a limitation of the DAC. I have DACs with only Windows drivers, and frankly I don't use them as often, despite great SQ, because for a variety of reasons Linux is the future of network attached audio. Sonore is Linux (as they should be). Alternatively consider the ASDM7EC modulator at DSD256 ;) 

Custom room treatments for headphone users.

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On 6/21/2019 at 7:20 PM, latenz said:

@miska 

Hi

There are so many possibilities and I would like to break  it down to some recommendations?

 

when the server is ideal ( will never happen)- what is the preferred hardware for great sound quality. What is the recommended solution for an NAA endpoint. you make a bootable image for low power systems...or sms200neo or a beefy pink faun server...

 

thanks for helping

 

While waiting for Miska's answers (and I believe he would suggest rather simple solutions) - there is a thread "A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming". Wide range of different recommendations and descriptions of practical experience of using different hardware for NAA. The thread is very long, though.

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25 minutes ago, jabbr said:

 

This is, frankly, a limitation of the DAC. I have DACs with only Windows drivers, and frankly I don't use them as often, despite great SQ, because for a variety of reasons Linux is the future of network attached audio. Sonore is Linux (as they should be). Alternatively consider the ASDM7EC modulator at DSD256 ;) 

Yeah I’m with you on this. 

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I have built and bought a number of NAA over the years so here's my advice:

 

The NAA should be low powered. I have built several using Celeron motherboards (https://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Q1900M/) and added fiber optic NICs -- these also allow you to add a fancy USB card if you choose.  You can easily supply these with a linear power supply. Go for a low powered board with 2 PCIe slots -- one for the NIC (Intel x520  is popular, I also use Solarflare and Mellanox)

 

I use a Solid-Run Clearfog Base which has an SFP input. These have to be ordered from Israel and require knowledge of Linux command line etc. There is an industry of these SBCs, see: https://www.armbian.com/download/, the vast majority have an Ethernet port or two, and several USB ports.... my Clearfog Base runs Armbian Buster 20 ... when I was starting out I had to compile my own kernels to enable ALSA etc ... but its all mainline now... 

 

An Intel NUC is very popular and great. I use this for wireless. Rock solid.

 

RPI: people mod these with custom PSUs etc. They are cheap. I have several -- in fact the RPI4 is sitting right next to my NUC right now.

 

If I were purchasing a prepackaged device with minimal fuss, then I would get the Sonore opticalRendu.

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30 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Anyone tried an ASUS tinkerboard as an NAA?

No.Have done an RBPi.

Do you already have a tinkerboard? I know that you can get a diet-pi version for tinkerboard and then add the hqp naa plugin that's availble for diet-pi. I'm not sure about other OS's for tinkerboard. It's hard to know if what works on a Pi will work on a tinkerboard. 

If NAA will work on Volumio, it will work on tinkerboard, as they make a tinkerboard based streamer. 

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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20 minutes ago, firedog said:

No.Have done an RBPi.

Do you already have a tinkerboard? I know that you can get a diet-pi version for tinkerboard and then add the hqp naa plugin that's availble for diet-pi. I'm not sure about other OS's for tinkerboard. It's hard to know if what works on a Pi will work on a tinkerboard. 

If NAA will work on Volumio, it will work on tinkerboard, as they make a tinkerboard based streamer. 

 

There are "armhf" and "arm64" versions of NAA. "Raspbian" is the raspberry pi version of the Debian/Linux OS. "Armbian" for all those ARM SBC boards. The difference with mainline Debian is a bunch of board specific bootloader stuff that you'd need to figure out if you started with Debian. @Miska provides his own NAA distribution for RPi etc but not practical to deal with each and every SBC so for these boards, download the appropriate networkaudiod DEB and install ... networkaudiod itself is userland and doesn't need to know the nitty gritty board details, it just send the music to ALSA :) 

Custom room treatments for headphone users.

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1 hour ago, Miska said:

This is what I use mostly:

https://up-shop.org/home/339-up-gws01w4g-memory32g-emmc-boardwo-vesa-plate.html

It also works for USB input side.

 

I may soon add also one more ARM-based board that also works for USB inputs.

 

 

That board seems to only have 32GB of storage. Isn't that an issue when you do a Windows Update? It is. for me with my similar little device - or do you have additional storage attached? Also, will it pass on  all sample rates, or is it limited?

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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I like Miska's suggestion or any of the other Intel-based ones, because I'm getting impatient in my old age and for me the ARM chip added another layer of fuss vs. using Intel.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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20 hours ago, Jud said:

I like Miska's suggestion or any of the other Intel-based ones, because I'm getting impatient in my old age and for me the ARM chip added another layer of fuss vs. using Intel.

 

I strongly suspect you are using ARM even though you don't recognize it ;) 

Custom room treatments for headphone users.

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15 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Can you explain? It's pretty easy to tell the difference I thought. 

 

ARM is an architecture which is licensed to different companies for inclusion in their own chips.

NXP/Freescale was formed from Motorola (which powered the original Apple), and subsequently licensed ARM for its low powered i.MX6 which found itself in the Solid-Run CuBox-i which was popular as an early audio endpoint. Solid-Run sells the i.MX6 as a SOM (System on Module) for ease of use.

I believe the i.MX6 is still used in the Rendu series, so you in fact are using as your NAA.

Solid-Run  also makes  a Marvell ARMADA 388 SOM which is another ARM based (SoC System on Chip), it uses in the Clearfog which I use as one of my NAA (I also have a NUC).

Apple uses ARM in the iPhone, and Google in Android, so you've used ARM even when you don't know it!

 

Through the standardization of Linux, when you use ARM or Intel x86, you type the same commands etc, and when you use NAA either on Windows or MacOS or Linux, the box receives an NAA stream in and sends audio out to the attached DAC.

Custom room treatments for headphone users.

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2 minutes ago, jabbr said:

 

ARM is an architecture which is licensed to different companies for inclusion in their own chips.

NXP/Freescale was formed from Motorola (which powered the original Apple), and subsequently licensed ARM for its low powered i.MX6 which found itself in the Solid-Run CuBox-i which was popular as an early audio endpoint. Solid-Run sells the i.MX6 as a SOM (System on Module) for ease of use.

I believe the i.MX6 is still used in the Rendu series, so you in fact are using as your NAA.

Solid-Run  also makes  a Marvell ARMADA 388 SOM which is another ARM based (SoC System on Chip), it uses in the Clearfog which I use as one of my NAA (I also have a NUC).

Apple uses ARM in the iPhone, and Google in Android, so you've used ARM even when you don't know it!

Thats's all very obvious. 

 

When Jussi links to an intel computer and Jud says he likes that because it isn't ARM, I'm not sure where the confusion comes into play. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Thats's all very obvious. 

 

When Jussi links to an intel computer and Jud says he likes that because it isn't ARM, I'm not sure where the confusion comes into play. 

 

 

 

Oh! We are talking about NAA and @Miska pointed to his preferred Intel based NAA device, not computers which run HQPlayer... I was commenting that @Jud is, in fact using an ARM based NAA.

 

An advantage to an Intel based NAA is that the NAA can run Windows and so use Windows device drivers.

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2 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Yes, and he seems tired of ARM.

 

Perhaps @Jud can elaborate, or since you also like the Rendus, then I'm confused because I'm under the assumption that a packaged solution would be easier to use, just drop in and configure over an HTTP connection ... in which case you ought not need know what type of processor is powering the device. Ideally this stuff should be plug in and use.

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47 minutes ago, jabbr said:

 

Perhaps @Jud can elaborate, or since you also like the Rendus, then I'm confused because I'm under the assumption that a packaged solution would be easier to use, just drop in and configure over an HTTP connection ... in which case you ought not need know what type of processor is powering the device. Ideally this stuff should be plug in and use.

I believe he was talking about DIY arm. Packaged ARM solutions like Rendu don't matter because the end user doesn't have to think about the platform. DIY is a different animal of course. 

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1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I believe he was talking about DIY arm. Packaged ARM solutions like Rendu don't matter because the end user doesn't have to think about the platform. DIY is a different animal of course. 


Oh yes! There are a bazillion little boards whose support is all over the place — sometimes you need to 3D print a case etc etc etc. Or try to figure out how to update firmware that is from 1963 ...
 

In other cases such as RaspberryPi, there is large enough community that you can mostly burn an SD card, plop it in and go.

 

Intel is unquestionably more standard.

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Just now, jabbr said:


Oh yes! There are a bazillion little boards whose support is all over the place — sometimes you need to 3D print a case etc etc etc. Or try to figure out how to update firmware that is from 1963 ...
 

In other cases such as RaspberryPi, there is large enough community that you can mostly burn an SD card, plop it in and go.

 

Intel is unquestionably more standard.

Yeah, I figured we were just talking by each other :~)

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