Fas42’s Stereo ‘Magic’

[botrytis]

12 hours ago, MarkusBarkus said:

Aarf. Aarf. The real magic is in the crystals! Secret revealed...

 

Shun Mook discs and magic rocks.

[fas42]

9 hours ago, botrytis said:

 

I have this whole thread. You just haven't said anything . You think you are communicating but obfuscation is not communication. There was NO METHOD mentioned, just tons of hyperbole.

 

Because the method relies on reacting to feedback from how the system sounds. Unfortunately, the majority of audiophiles can't tune into this concept - I never, ever do a whole lot of things because that's "what ya gotta do!" ... I'm fixing a rig, not hotrodding it - the whole mindset is completely different ... so long as you don't understand that, you'll never follow what's going on.

 

You see, I use "bad recordings". But they are not actually bad; they're telling me where the system is getting it wrong - so I make a guess, try some simple experiments which give feedback about whether I'm on the right track, and if I am, then I know where to tweak. Also called, step by step surgery, 😉.

 

9 hours ago, botrytis said:

 

You talk about how you tweaked your system and it is inexpensive but then wax poetic about expensive systems. Which is it?

 

 

 

It's all about whether the rig is working well. And that could be an ultra cheap setup, or a very expensive rig - the price of the bits is irrelevant; all that matters is if the system is doing its job - an ambitious combo will just have far less limits than the moderate cost setup - or that should be how it works!

[Confused]

On 8/21/2020 at 3:58 AM, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

 

 

I tried to brighten up and reduce the noise in the photo but with limited success. I think I can make out Toshiba name on the bottom right box. Frank, you may have mentioned the other components elsewhere, but can you list what the other boxes are in the audio chain?

What is that box directly under the Edifiers ? I presume the speakers at the bottom of the 'pedestal' stands are inactive?

And what the hell is this thing that has appeared on Frank's TV after your photo processing?

 

 

 

By the way, what are the lower speakers?  I actually think they look rather cool!

[Confused]

On 8/21/2020 at 12:18 AM, fas42 said:

By @Confused,

 

 

Started watching ... same half truths coming out, unfortunately ...

 

There is no such thing as a too transparent system - the truth is that there is plenty, out there, of systems which are revealing enough to make it obvious when there is some annoying weakness in the chain - and this can scream at you, and make for unpleasant listening, on 'difficult' recordings.

 

A perfect analogy is having an older car, which is generally noisy, has lots of things adding background murmuring as you drive along; there's a balance to these sound effects, and it doesn't bother you. Then, you get into a brand new, prestige vehicle - ahhh, glorious silence!! ... but, every now and again, some bit of plastic deep inside the dash, starts rubbing on something else, and has a good time squeaking at you ... this ... will ...drive ... you ... nuts.

 

The real title of the video should be, Is Your System Too Nominally Transparent? ...

 

 

 

In many respects I agree with you here, but maybe not for exactly the same reasons.  To me, to state something along the lines of "the more transparent a system is the less forgiving it is to bad recordings" (which is basically what Guttenburg is saying) is a little simplistic.  Others might see (hear) this differently, but for me just about the most important aspect of a system is tonal balance.  If the tonal balance is out, maybe too bright, "shouty" in the mid range, or maybe too "thin" due to a lack of bass, then these aspects can easily exacerbate any similar issues in the recording, giving a result that might be unpleasant or difficult to listen too.  To be fair, Guttenburg does perhaps pick up on this point when he comments on the angle of speakers relative to the listener.

 

Get the tonal balance right, the right amount of bass, an in room frequency curve that drops a few dB from bass to treble (or maybe something like the Harman house curve), then a system can be a little more forgiving of certain recordings, irrespective of how "transparent" or detailed the system might be.

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

29 minutes ago, Confused said:

And what the hell is this thing that has appeared on Frank's TV after your photo processing?

 

 

 

All just part of the magic that is Frank. He can make bad things disappear and he can conjure things up from nowhere!😂

 

Quote

By the way, what are the lower speakers?  I actually think they look rather cool!

 

The lower speakers are Frank's very old and defunct Technics speaker cabinet which he is using as a pedestal stand (or part thereof). I secretly think he likes the passive radiator resonating to give a fuller base 😉

 

[fas42]

 

27 minutes ago, Confused said:

 

By the way, what are the lower speakers?  I actually think they look rather cool!

 

Technics SB-5000s,

 

 

The company got quite extravagant with the ideas,

 

 

The SB-5000 did sterling service; got to complete invisibility over a decade ago.

[fas42]

16 minutes ago, Confused said:

 

Get the tonal balance right, the right amount of bass, an in room frequency curve that drops a few dB from bass to treble (or maybe something like the Harman house curve), then a system can be a little more forgiving of certain recordings, irrespective of how "transparent" or detailed the system might be.

 

IME, if one gets adequate integrity of the playback chain, then no tonal fiddling is needed - the ability of the ear to compensate, is remarkable.

[Confused]

I have decided to try some of Frank's mass loading ideas.  Note that in my case I am not using conventional magazines or newspapers to provide the loading, but in my case I have carefully selected expensive ambitious audiophile magazines for greater effect.

 

 

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

4 minutes ago, Confused said:

I have decided to try some of Frank's mass loading ideas.  Note that in my case I am not using conventional magazines or newspapers to provide the loading, but in my case I have carefully selected expensive ambitious audiophile magazines for greater effect.

 

 

 

Ambitious hi-fi magazines have more magic!😁

[Confused]

3 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

IME, if one gets adequate integrity of the playback chain, then no tonal fiddling is needed - the ability of the ear to compensate, is remarkable.

Again I agree, but only in part.  I think the ear / brain can compensate for things that look horrific if measured, such as room nulls and similar.  Where I disagree is perhaps a difference in my subjective perception rather than a difference of opinion.  If a system is overly bright or "shouty" in the mid range, this is something that I personally find incredibly annoying.  Other ear / brain combinations might hear this differently.

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

4 minutes ago, Confused said:

 Where I disagree is perhaps a difference in my subjective perception rather than a difference of opinion.  If a system is overly bright or "shouty" in the mid range, this is something that I personally find incredibly annoying.  Other ear / brain combinations might hear this differently.

 

This is where you have to change tactics. As Frank teaches, you can't expect one tweak to fix everything. The cool thing is that those  magazines you were using for mass loading can be repurposed by strapping one of them in front of the tweeter. This 'fixes' brightness 👌

[Confused]

28 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

This is where you have to change tactics. As Frank teaches, you can't expect one tweak to fix everything. The cool thing is that those  magazines you were using for mass loading can be repurposed by strapping one of them in front of the tweeter. This 'fixes' brightness 👌

Joking apart, I mentioned that I heard the Blade 2 at a UK show, and thought the sound was poor.  This is a picture of the demo, note that they have the speakers angled at about 45 deg, basically aimed directly at the listener.  I have listened to other demos of the Blades, both by dealers and KEF themselves at shows.  In all cases they were orientated much closer to parallel / straight ahead, with maybe 5 or 10 degrees of tow in.  Sometimes simple things can make a big difference, and it perhaps shows how sometimes manufacturers can screw things up at shows.

 

[Confused]

And here is a video for Frank, he can have a listen!

 

 

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

2 minutes ago, Confused said:

Joking apart, I mentioned that I heard the Blade 2 at a UK show, and thought the sound was poor.  This is a picture of the demo, note that they have the speakers angled at about 45 deg, basically aimed directly at the listener.  I have listened to other demos of the Blades, both by dealers and KEF themselves at shows.  In all cases they are orientated much closer to parallel / straight ahead, with maybe 5 or 10 degrees of tow in.  Sometimes simple things can make a big difference, and it perhaps shows how sometimes manufacturers can screw things up at shows.

 

 

Yes indeed I agree. Speaker location and room setup are critical and the guys that schlep these things around are I guess a bit like roadies. The toe in looks weird. Toe in will vary for different speakers  and where you like to sit with the listening position forming an equilateral or slightly further back, Isosceles triangle, and the tweeters pointing just behind the ears, with any luck aiming at the centre of the wall behind the listening position.

www.barrydiamentaudio.com/monitoring.htm

 

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

13 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

Yes indeed I agree. Speaker location and room setup are critical and the guys that schlep these things around are I guess a bit like roadies. The toe in looks weird.

 

 

It's not all bad news though. They have cleverly tweaked the system to make the sound waves bounce off what looks like an innovative new product that modulates the sound as it diffuses around the shiny balls on top of those custom-made acoustic treatments

 

.

[fas42]

3 hours ago, Confused said:

I have decided to try some of Frank's mass loading ideas.  Note that in my case I am not using conventional magazines or newspapers to provide the loading, but in my case I have carefully selected expensive ambitious audiophile magazines for greater effect.

 

 

 

What's scary, is that I still have years of that publication, going back to '86, around the place ...

[MarkusBarkus]

2 hours ago, Confused said:I have carefully selected expensive ambitious audiophile magazines for greater effect.

 

 

...those mags are not optimal for US listeners. IMO the paper used for all glossy publications is too "sharp" for mass loading. Newsprint's high fiber content offers a more balanced tone. 
 

Incidentally, the image referenced is clearly the "ghost in the machine." Is it a good ghost or a bad ghost? Let your ears be your guide, but slowly move away from the light...

[fas42]

2 hours ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

This is where you have to change tactics. As Frank teaches, you can't expect one tweak to fix everything. The cool thing is that those  magazines you were using for mass loading can be repurposed by strapping one of them in front of the tweeter. This 'fixes' brightness 👌

 

Ah, if you came to my place, you would find that paper can do all sorts of magic things - it's the scrooge in me; I haven't the ambitions of normal audiophiles, to spend vast sums of money buying blingy versions of gadgets, from the 'right' companies 🤩.

[MarkusBarkus]

3 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

 

The SB-5000 did sterling service; got to complete invisibility over a decade ago.

...complete invisibility would be a requirement to have these things in the room.

[MarkusBarkus]

3 minutes ago, fas42 said:

...you would find that paper can do all sorts of magic things...

I use a lot of paper here too. I keep rolls of it in the WC and find it works like magic! YMMV

[fas42]

2 hours ago, Confused said:

And here is a video for Frank, he can have a listen!

 

 

 

Well, even using my newly discovered rewind trick didn't rescue this - it did help; but not enough, 😉 - really, quite similar to what I heard at the Sydney audio show ... as in, I thought that these units would shine, after the hype ...

[fas42]

BTW, I don't do any of this toe in stuff - straight ahead; likewise, N. up the road.

[fas42]

4 minutes ago, MarkusBarkus said:

I use a lot of paper here too. I keep rolls of it in the WC and find it works like magic! YMMV

 

It's so precious, I empty the shelves for miles around, when there's a danger it might go scarce - hopefully, this won't be too noticeable.

[Confused]

30 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

What's scary, is that I still have years of that publication, going back to '86, around the place ...

Really? 🙂

 

I can just imagine you reading HiFi News and thinking "look at this ridiculously overpriced unsorted audiophile bling".  Turn page, repeat. 

 

Not only that, but the HFN music reviews give specific recordings a "sound quality" percentage score.  So there your are reading thinking "another recording sound quality score that is not 100%, ridiculous, these HFN guys need to get their over ambitious audiophile rigs sorted", turn page, repeat.

[Confused]

18 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

It's so precious, I empty the shelves for miles around, when there's a danger it might go scarce - hopefully, this won't be too noticeable.