Ambient, Psybient, Psydub, not Goa and what more not

[rando]

18 hours ago, PeterSt said:

Slow beat soundscape music, maybe best characterized by an artist like Azura  or Solar fields. And no, not electronic music at all, although most will have synths in it for support. No, the best ones use real guitars with real drums and real basses. And citars and such or so many more Indian instruments because the roots seem always to be there (like Goa is). Looking at the track names often tells enough. And of course tracks are mostly 6 minutes at least.

Oh, did I mention the psychedelic influence ? OK, you saw that.

 

Thievery Corporation, noticed this was missing from your list of easily referenceable groups and long term projects.  I wouldn't believe you if you said you didn't know about them.  Was going to post something off 'The Mirror Conspiracy" that hit on everything in the quote above.  I like this much better and it is has the benefit of being a well lit live performance.

 

 

[PeterSt]

1 hour ago, rando said:

Thievery Corporation, noticed this was missing from your list of easily referenceable groups and long term projects.

 

Hi Rando,

 

 

That's what I have of them. Really really great stuff and I couldn't stop listening to your YouTube (while I should be doing some work). But although a track like the first in that YouTube is "100%", most are not because of the singing. So point is (hey, for me of course, but maybe also for the genre in general) that the vocals shouldn't take the lead or melody if you want. All right, here and there my list's artists may have a track with singing, but I don't think this is about story telling or "distracting from the music" great voices like the gals and guys of Thievery Corporation. It could be tribal like, and it most certainly could be about obductions or whatever UFO landings and whatever it is why this is often about "space" as such.

 

The real instruments and effects not really expected from guitars, really fit the bill. The real drumming with real breaks (haha) - and as you can see, the dedication, all there.

I just "obtained" 3 more from Tidal and go through all of them (including my own which sat there for 10 years) because they are most certainly very prone to "fit". So thank you very much !

 

Peter

[PeterSt]

12 hours ago, look&listen said:

1st I point to previous thread with many posts & lists some of my favored electronica artists & other discussion (mostly sub-genres), so we connect more info to this net.

 

Hello @look&listen - That thread and list is the very reason I started my thread over here, because I thought differently than you :

 

12 hours ago, look&listen said:

 

No surprise to me that I know so few of your preferred artists, seems almost characteristic of this genre.

 

I just saw too many of "mine" in your list, realized how difficult the categorization is, and thus thought to make it clear by my list itself. Btw, my list is not subjective to any idea or feeling - it is just the list I have, use, and extend very regularly.

 

12 hours ago, look&listen said:

So, I ask if you could choose, maybe couple dozen, specific tracks that best show(sound) the essence of what all other choices represent in your 'ears'.

 

I think this is impossible. But what I can do to attempt the inverse, is use your list and point out why it would not be in my list. Then slowly it may become clear what this is about.

 

This is your list from that other thread :

 

Massive Attack (~)

Kruder & Dorfmeister (?)

Orb

William Orbit

Bluetech

Capsula

Ibizarre

zerO One

Zero 7 (~)

Air (~)

Sounds from the Ground

Future Sounds of London (?)

Tosca (?)

Portishead (?)

Jean-Micheal Jarre (~)

Royskopp

Schiller (?)

Sasha

Paul Oakenfold (?)

Carl Craig (?)

Kevin Saunderson (?)

Ritche Hawtin (Plasticman) (?)

Autechre (?)

 

The ones denoted (?) I just don't know (yet). But your list is now in this thread, so I can start with it and see how it resembles my ideas, and we thus both talk about the very same (nice eh, music as communication means).

 

Those denoted (~) are also in my list with the same (~) and indicate that it doesn't fit the bill because the music style is different. And, to articulate better what this is about because I actually just learned that from the Thievery Corporation example, they all contain lyrics (not Jean Michel Jarre) but do show the "sounds" and the sounds as such are always about "specialty". So the more or most difficult sounds, are for me the sheer reason to have it in the list. I mean, you hear a synthesizer or you hear space. You hear bells or you don't hear them at all or not sufficiently enough or nor clear enough etc. (I also have a folder with "bells & glass" tracks). Bells *are* difficult. You hear rain or you hear noise. You hear fake thunder or you feel thunder. You are obducted too when a whispering voice tells so, or nothing happens. You're into "zen" when this is supposed to happen or it is just strange music. You notice the reason of the sitar being there which is depicted by the sounds around it, or you don't understand it because those sounds don''t work out.

blahblahblahblah

 

Anyway, the sheer fact that Massive Attack, Air, Zero 7, Jean Michel Jarre are in your list as well as mine, WHILE you also have all of the others for those who I know (Orb, William Orbit, Bluetech, Capsula, etc.).

(Edit : And the reason Yello is there regardless the all over lyrics, is because with Yello the voices themselves are put up like "sounds", mostly. Or at least they blend into the sounds-of-the-music.)

The point here is not that you don't know most of mine and that you will like to investigate them - the point will merely be that the opportunity to find them is not there easily. On that matter, listen to the first interview just over 3 minutes into the video of the Thievery Corporation, and see how it happens that they are less known. Just no mass production would do it. And I can tell you, stuff like Bluetech - one of the better known - is not something you run into easily because way few people are into this music to begin with. So you (look&listen) put up this list, but I was under the impression that I could be the only one understanding it (I mentioned "a hand full of CA members" for my own list). This, while it is the only genre which contains all to "test" the merits of a system. Also, some will be just great to listen to for most people *if* they only know it. That first track of Thievery Corporation could again be an example, weren't it that now and then it is just one measure too much of the same ... and here we have it : when I listen to it on my PC's headphones. And this is so super crucial, because already when I use the wrong Lush^2 configuration, ALL is showing too many measures of the same. This is so typical for this kind of "ambient" music, because when all the details show, nothing is the same ever. So obviously, if the details do not show, only the bass line shows (to be excessive about it).

 

Back to your question : it will be about the ones in your list I do not know, and how they fit my bill. Supposed that 80% does (which I kind of expect) then you can bet that you unconditionally can start at A of my list, and work your way through to Z. And we will hopefully see that meanwhile the list grows. Like yesterday I sorted out Banca de Gaia, which I knew from such collections, but didn't have in dedicated albums. Well, if you look at the covers you can already see how it does not fit all of the others (observing covers really helps), but the music originates from the same. The difference ? it is tribal like, all uptempo and a track like Drunk as a Munk really shows that, no matter there are no lyrics as such.

 

Btw, I need to add a few to the list which I overlooked because of how my folder structure is composed.

Edit : Just done so, denoted with (*) for now. I can keep on doing that for new-found ones. The list is also alphabetical now. Thank you @Sonicularity.

 

 

[PeterSt]

To show you that there is so much more to investigate, this is the back of one of the so many collection albums I have.

 

 

Track 03 and 04 are in my Demo folder but Patchwork does not appear in the list. But apparently it should, or could once I sorted out the albums of that artist. So, I just looked, see that I have 4 of him/them, the newest from 2000. BUT mind you, the back-cover you see above is a typical rework (call it remaster) of all the tracks, and they all have a distinct sound for the album. Also, Tidal just shows me that there's at least two newer albums of Patchwork, so on goes the "investigation".

 

 

This doesn't look real good to me, because the track times are too short. So don't laugh, but the genre we're talking about is a but like orchestral pieces and it needs to develop. This doesn't go in 2, 3, or 4 minutes.

But it keeps me busy ...

[PeterSt]

My eye falls on the Somptin' Hapnin' track on the back cover of my previous post. The original is on this album :

 

 

Possibly you need to be in the good mood, but that track contains lyrics which you don't want to observe for real (could spoil the party) but while this looks to be a perfectly normal over 10 minute track, it is one big lead in to an orgasm. Btw, not by the listener. So the art of this is that you are bound to "see through" that (again, perfectly normal for classical pieces) but there we go again ... when you first didn't tune your system somewhat so it is able to show all small details and with that coming along the small variations in the woman's voice, like a violinist can put that so beautiful in his instrument (you can just sense the mood of the artist), then nothing works. Then it is just a track. Still nice I suppose, but no Zen.

Btw, no need to find this on YouTube; it's not there (OK, it is, in some too slow version which doesn't do what it supposes to do).

[PeterSt]

6 hours ago, crenca said:

The name that jumps out at me missing in this list is Tycho...

 

Hey, never heard of that ...

Nothing but good from WikiPedia.

If I can cope, in for tonight's playlist (found 4 full "native" albums on Tidal).

 

Thank you, @crenca,

Peter

 

PS: There's also this angle/dimension (already talked about, but now with the artist himself as the base, him hooking to another unknown) :

 

[jabbr]

7 hours ago, fas42 said:

Very true ... but irrespective of the fact that I have heard my own setups for decades, at various levels of optimisation, my brain still can't bypass audible distortions or noise of various types. I may have an excellent idea of what it has the potential to sound like, but I don't actually hear that potential realised - unless, the rig is working at an adequate level.

 

Right, so if the rig is working at a minimally acceptable level, then your brain fills in the gaps. 

 

The brain is is highly effective at modulating sensory input given a minimum. For example put on colored sunglasses.

[PeterSt]

@jabbr, can you please stop encouraging Frank to continue discussions which don't belong here. @fas42, can you please stop your subject in this thread ?

Thank you both !!

 

Regards,

Peter

[jabbr]

1 hour ago, PeterSt said:

@jabbr, can you please stop encouraging Frank to continue discussions which don't belong here. @fas42, can you please stop your subject in this thread ?

Thank you both !!

 

My apologies! Thank you for this informative discussion of electronic music! I’m already looking into which on the list I can find. 

 

I listen to a variety of music types both for enjoyment and testing. I tend to use sounds that I’ve heard acoustically eg vocals, and unamplified instruments which have a real reference, but also electronic. 

 

I wonder whether a listening impression on something electronic is “better” in a subjective sense when not perfectly accurate eg when even harmonics are added or tubes, the sound can be very pleasing.

 

I would add Thom Yorke and Radiohead, and in that case the live performances mirror the recordings to a remarkable extent — and the complexity of the live electronics is also remarkable.

[m3lraaHnevetS]

Hello Peter,

 

Thanks for sharing the list.

 

Do you have a Tidal playlist that you could share like Chris is doing with his top 100 playlist?

 

This would save a lot of time...

 

Groeten uit Leersum,

 

Steven

 

[look&listen]

9 hours ago, jabbr said:

I listen to a variety of music types both for enjoyment and testing. I tend to use sounds that I’ve heard acoustically eg vocals, and unamplified instruments which have a real reference, but also electronic.

I also use well recorded, fully non-electrified music sounds for real testing of playback. Then assume all else will be as true as it could be. Electronic, studio, sounds can be day-to-day indicators, but must be tested against 'absolute', IMO.

 

9 hours ago, jabbr said:

I wonder whether a listening impression on something electronic is “better” in a subjective sense when not perfectly accurate eg when even harmonics are added or tubes, the sound can be very pleasing.

Good questions, subject. But for new thread please

 

[rando]

This might make you a little sick Peter.  I erased every trace of this type of music a few years back.  All that remained was mp3 files necessary to play them on an ipod.  Some of this was pretty obscure and never distributed in a better quality format.  I've been wracking my brain for specific examples that you could attempt to source in a lossless format.  We both seem to appreciate a very similar hard to define quality that is rare to find without deep changes being made for financial success. 

 

I think you might find a few fixes looking at musicians related to Thievery Corporation.  Sean Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra comes first to mind.  Ignore the pop singer & cover stuff and look for the more personal works.  

 

There are also a few older individual and collaborative efforts from Ellen Allien and Apparat nearer your cutoff point.  Nothing quite on par with Airdrawndagger but quite interesting high quality recordings. 

 

In the Pink Floyd on Asteroids category this came to mind.  Free download of it is probably, we are about to come full circle on why I just erased every trace and moved on, mp3.  ?‍?

 

 

 

[look&listen]

31 minutes ago, rando said:

In the Pink Floyd on Asteroids category this came to mind

Thx! Echos favorite of all PF for me, & remix by Peter Kruder of Kruder & Dorfmeister(K&D) & Peace Orchestra! Listening as typing.  'K&D Sessions' 2-disk recording required electro (deep downtempo) listening IMO   But artist only earned (~) from Peter?

 

ps. most of my electro library is lossless ripped from Cd media, found some full-res d/l online(free or cheap), but only recently allowed some lossy (AAC) single song d/l's. Not as bad as feared, but not as critical of sound vs music quality here.

[jabbr]

1 hour ago, look&listen said:

 

Good questions, subject. But for new thread please

  

 

Ok, I'm getting tons of great info and new stuff I need to look into from this thread, so I'll just sit back and listen  

[PeterSt]

1 hour ago, rando said:

 

 

 

 

Oh man. Listened to this for the first ONE minute only. THAT !!

Anyway, when people listen to this (first minute) they right away understand the abduction" texts (named "obduction" by me - sorry !), no matter whether it is about exactly that.

Listened for a first minute only because I didn't want to spoil it - waiting for the real thing - asteroids on speakers. 

but ...

 

1 hour ago, rando said:

In the Pink Floyd on Asteroids category this came to mind.  Free download of it is probably

 

Can we download from there ? (this isn't on Tidal that I can see from here)

Maybe I must learn to listen to an mp3 once again. Haha.

 

1 hour ago, rando said:

we are about to come full circle on why I just erased every trace and moved on, mp3.  ?‍?

 

Too much English for me, as usual. I understand what you are saying here, but I don't understand why you erased everything. Just because it was all mp3 ?

 

 

[PeterSt]

4 hours ago, m3lraaHnevetS said:

 

Do you have a Tidal playlist that you could share like Chris is doing with his top 100 playlist?

 

Hoi Steven,

 

Nah, that would really take too much time. Also, although a lot of it is available on Tidal, another lot is not. So that would be so often a hit and miss for me. It would be true though that such a Playlist doesn't even exist in there. Hmm ...

Another thing is that my "collection" of this will be ~1000 entries at the album level (and say 3000 tracks ?) and when each track comprises of 7 minutes on average, it will be a loooong playlist (one can be 99 tracks only IIRC) that you can't even deal with it.

Side note on dealing with it : not the way Tidal presents them. It will work via XXHighEnd though, because in there each original album (cover) will show per track, so you can see a bit what you're doing. But no ... really too much work.

 

Grtz,

Peter

[rando]

Peter, it was a one off live performance he found the DAT from and threw it up on youtube.  Yes, if you click on "... More" below the comment field there is an option to download it.  You need to sign in using FB or a Gmail account.  Just make a Gmail account and never use it again after you get the link they email you.  

 

Figured I would enjoy tracking down anything that I really wanted at some point in the future.  Part of this was the hard drive it was all stored on was dying and had errors.  Yes, it being all mp3 was a major factor.

[look&listen]

3 minutes ago, rando said:

Yes, if you click on "... More" below the comment field there is an option to download it

Timely, was just looking for d/l control. Bits moving now

[PeterSt]

1 hour ago, look&listen said:

Thx! Echos favorite of all PF for me, & remix by Peter Kruder of Kruder & Dorfmeister(K&D) & Peace Orchestra! Listening as typing.  'K&D Sessions' 2-disk recording

 

L&L, I have been searching Tidal for every combination of possible words and characters for 10 minutes, but nothing. Only a few mix albums of Peter Kruder and also one (or two) with Dorfmeister.

You don't happen to have a picture of the/a cover, please ? Or the literal text to look for ? (artist or album name)

[PeterSt]

OMG, moron I am. I have it myself ... (I think).

 

 

@look&listen, thank you !

Apparently I have too many albums now. 

[look&listen]

12 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

You don't happen to have a picture of the/a cover, please ? Or the literal text to look for ? (artist or album name)

"K&D Sessions" 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_K%26D_Sessions

https://www.amazon.com/K-D-Sessions-KRUDER-DORFMEISTER/dp/B00000G257  (1 @ $5.40 used!)

 

edit- Oops, moot point.

Working on responses to your bigger posts, while deal with other stuff 

[PeterSt]

3 minutes ago, look&listen said:

edit- Oops, moot point.

 

Thank you so much !

[acg]

12 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

OMG, moron I am. I have it myself ... (I think).

 

 

@look&listen, thank you !

Apparently I have too many albums now. 

 

That album was on reasonably high rotation for about a decade for me but I only listen to it a few times a year now...bugger it, I'm putting it on now too...

[PeterSt]

The results on yesterday's trials :

 

The Web (3 albums from of 2010 and newer - only played the first one, in full (!)) :

Those guys make nothing of the music @fas42 Frank put up for this first track. At least not in that album  The Clydotorous Scrotodhendron album I listened to showed no drum machines, but showed a bunch of crazies instead, with music I like. But nothing at all of the ambient kind.

 

The Thievery Corporation from @rando (right ?) and their Saudade album from 2014 ... nothing. Also nothing for real for me. At the third track of ever the same (gapless) I switched it off. However, their The Temple I & I album from 2017 I (& I) was really connected to. It doesn't fit the Ambient bill but like mentioned The Web album it went into my "Nice Stuff" folder.

 

Patchwork's Stolen Light album from 2017 ... mwah. I already forgot what it was about. But remember, I obtained this from a "mixed by" album I showed myself yesterday. And as promised, often the original is something so totally different that you hardly recognize it. This is how diving into this takes so much time.

[PeterSt]

PS: @crenca, I tried Tycho too (Past is Prologue from 2010) but all what happened is that it ended up in my "Nice Stuff" folder. No specific tracks to the Demo Folder. This usually means that I must revisit it later. But what I recall of it, is that it did not sound right. Thus SQ not on par. No refined sound (rough, poorly produced ??). Music itself OK. More of it tonight, I suppose (3 more albums to go).