Network Isolation

[jabbr]

Thank you for all th help . Still very new to this side of the networking learning t bit by bit

 

V

 

Clearly this gets complex and there are so many options which is why we are trying to document "known good" configurations in the "Optical Network Configurations" thread. There is also a tradeoff in cost of trying something out vs. robustness and features. The Mellanox is a great option if you want to keep costs low, aren't doing anything fancy like network boot, and are using Windows (and probably Linux). At these prices you can always upgrade if the drivers become totally obsolete or you decide to do something fancier. With optical the power use doesn't go up with link speed like copper Ethernet (10g copper is a big power hog), and the current equipment is pushing 40g to 100g so there are many deals to be had in 10g (not that you need that for audio but realize that the faster cards & switches need better clocks etc).

[Tand]

Pulled the trigger on FMC today.

 

I recently bought the UpTone Regen which I use with my JS-2. Since I am not using the Regens MeanWeall PS can I use this on the FMC at the server side?

 

I bought this:

 

1 meter SC-SC GC765 1 Metre SC SC 62 5 125 MMD OM1 Fibre Optic Patch Lead Cable Grey | eBay

2 x TP Link MC110CS TP-LINK NETWORK MC110CS FAST ETHERNET MEDIA CONVERTER 10 100M 20KM RETAIL / MULTICOM.

 

Will order after testing using my old ethernet cables:

 

2 x Blue Jeans Cable Bonded Pair Cat 6a Ethernet Cable, 1 foot, Black

Another qustion, since I use UpTone JS-2. Is it possible to use a Y-Connector to connect both the Regen and the FMC? What Voltage should I use?

 

If so, can I use this:

 

Y connector 5,5mm x 2,1 M-F : ABWE! New 5.5x2.1mm 1 to 2 M/F DC Power Splitter Cable for Security CCTV Camera-in Connectors from Electrical Equipment & Supplies on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

 

Thanks for all help!

 

Tommy

[tgb]

hi Tand,

what's your setup ?

you want to put the fmc on server side. you mean between nas and computer ?

the 100mb fmc like mc110cs are good to connect to a streamer , because streamers usually have 100mb ethernet interfaces.

if you want to link 2 devices that can work at 1Gb then you have to stick to their speed, 1Gb, thus choose mc220cs or mc220L+2 SFPs, depending on prices the second option is usually cheaper.

Careful : mc220cs need fiber with SC connector ; SFPs to put in the ms220L have LC connectors.

Rgds

[Vitor]

Just to let you guys now that I have a spare pair of FMC's (TPLink MC210CS) and a pair of patch cables, if someone's interested.

[Tand]

hi Tand,

what's your setup ?

you want to put the fmc on server side. you mean between nas and computer ?

the 100mb fmc like mc110cs are good to connect to a streamer , because streamers usually have 100mb ethernet interfaces.

if you want to link 2 devices that can work at 1Gb then you have to stick to their speed, 1Gb, thus choose mc220cs or mc220L+2 SFPs, depending on prices the second option is usually cheaper.

Careful : mc220cs need fiber with SC connector ; SFPs to put in the ms220L have LC connectors.

Rgds

 

Hi tgb

 

I am using dual Mac minis. The Controll mini has a my iTunes library on a internal 1 tb SSD disc. It also controll the second mini using Screen Share. They are connected with a Synergistic Research active shielded Etherned cable today. The second mini, the Music mini is also connected to my Berkely Alpha USB and the UpTone JS-2.

 

I was thinking of replacing the S.R ethernet cable beteween the Macs and use the Uptone PS on the FMC connected to the music mini. Do I need the 1Gb version? I think I read that Alex and John at UpTone meant it could be beneficial unsing the 100mb versions since they were simpler…..

[tgb]

hi Tand,

thanks i see your point.

i said 1Gb in case you need to transfer files between your devices ; 1Gb goes faster than 100mb of course. That's why I talked about nas.

If between your Minis you only the music stream then 100mb is enough.

Then the remark of John is relevant because 100mb transfer is a bit simpler than 1Gb. But i don't know if someone did that test : 100mb vs 1Gb. Can we hear it ? i don't know. ..

Someone having your kind of setup with 2 computers for storage and server could answer precisely. I use a streamer so don't trust me 100% !

Rgds

[Tand]

hi Tand,

thanks i see your point.

i said 1Gb in case you need to transfer files between your devices ; 1Gb goes faster than 100mb of course. That's why I talked about nas.

If between your Minis you only the music stream then 100mb is enough.

Then the remark of John is relevant because 100mb transfer is a bit simpler than 1Gb. But i don't know if someone did that test : 100mb vs 1Gb. Can we hear it ? i don't know. ..

Someone having your kind of setup with 2 computers for storage and server could answer precisely. I use a streamer so don't trust me 100% !

Rgds

 

Hi tgb

 

Thanks for your reply!

 

Best way is to try it out. I have the FMCs and 1 meter of optical SC-SC so I will try it out in a week. It will be fun

 

 

Tommy

[seeteeyou]

Now we only need audio streamer or NAA with SFP port.

Not ideal to have USB for both networking and audio for sure, but we do have access to Realtek-based USB adapters

 

Winyao USB100FX USB 2.0 to 100M Fiber Fast Ethernet Adapter Network Card - White - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

 

Winyao USB1000F-LX USB 3.0 1000Mbps Fiber Optical Network Card w/ SFP Optical Module - Black - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

 

---

Of course we could go for the upcoming HummingBoard-Edge instead, they added Mini PCI-Express slot to the bottom of that board and something like JCAT USB card could be installed with an adapter

 

HummingBoard-Edge | SolidRun

 

HummingBoard Edge SBC Gets an mSATA/M.2 Connector, an eMMC Flash, and More I/Os

 

It's also based on i.MX6 SoC and therefore that NAA Linux image for CuBox-i should be compatible. It's like the best of both worlds, SFP via USB adapter and superior USB via Mini PCI-Express.

[jabbr]

Just noticed new Synology NAS with two 10G SFP ports. model DS2015xs. Nice addition to optical network.

Now we only need audio streamer or NAA with SFP port.

NAA is no problem if your NAA has PCI-e slot:)

[rickca]

While the fat, bonded-pair BlueJeans/Belden cable is shielded, its shields are not tied at either end (no metal around the RJ45s), so the music computer stays galvanically isolated from the other computer and rest of the LAN. I think this really helps.

I need to run ethernet cable from my cable modem to the router I use for audio. Would a flat ethernet cable (you can get cat-7) sound as good as the BlueJeans cat 6a? I could use BlueJeans cat 6a but it would have to go around the perimeter of my room rather than a straight line under the carpet.

 

The STP cat-7 I'm considering has shielded RJ45 connectors, is that a bad idea?

 

I think this cable modem --> router connection only comes into play for streaming FLAC from Qobuz.

[pl_svn]

I have not compared different ethernet cables, but for all my network connection I'm using a flat cat7 STP one

[MHzTweaker]

Hi everyone

 

I got back into audio about a year ago after being "off the grid" for about 20 years.

 

I'm an I.T. guy and happen to currently run an I.T. service company from my home for the last 8 years. I have a small dedicated office here and am fully setup with much of the latest TECH. I build all my own gear as I have done for the last 30 years. In my office I have a home brew server rack of sorts with four 19inch 4U rack cases. Two of the systems are personal Win2012R2 servers (primary and a duplicate backup) which contain 3 music drives and 10 movie drive. I mainly use 4 to 6TB HGST NAS drives connected to Dell Perc H310 controllers flashed with LSI HBA firmware. The server is a Asrock X99 WS board with a Xeon E5-1620 V3 CPU (4core 8thread).

 

My home/business is based around an HP Procurve 2900-48G managed switch. It has 48 gigabit ports and 4 SFP ports. On the rear of the unit are 4 additional 10GB expansion slots. I got the unit with two 10Gbit CX4 expansion modules installed. (Think copper Infiniband cables) I have purchased 2 additional HP ProCurve 10GbE X2-SC SR fiber optic transceivers (model J8426A) to give me a total of four 10Gbit uplinks. Two links are 10Gbit CX4 Infiniband and two are 10Gbit SR multimode fiber. I have 3 of the uplinks now and am waiting for the 4th transceiver and a Dell RN219 fiber NIC to arrive.

 

My plan is to run 30 meters of 10 gigabit 50/125 multimode fiber optic cable under my house to my listening area where it will connect to the Dell RN219 NIC in my refreshed audio PC. The Dell RN219 NIC is a rebadged Intel D99083 NIC. My current audio PC is based around an MSI board with an Intel 4690k CPU and 16GB G.Skill Trident 2400MHz RAM. Power is provided by a Seasonic 750watt gold or platinum rated power supply. I just got a Cyberpower CP1500PFCLCD sine wave UPS backup for the PC. CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD UPS 1500VA / 900W PFC compatible Pure sine wave - Newegg.com

 

I wanted to see what effect cutting the copper Ethernet cable has on sound quality. Right now there is a second 8 port TP-Link GBit Ethernet switch in my listening room which feeds 4 devices. This will give the audio PC it's own 10GBit fiber uplink to the HP Procurve switch. I will also be upgrading to a new Socket 1151 motherboard with an Intel i7-6700K CPU and 16GB G.Skill DDR4-3000 RAM.

 

Because of money I had to cut corners on electronics initially. I am powering a pair of Martin Logan Prodigy Electrostatic speakers with a pair of Crown XTi-4000 pro audio amps. These have DSP processing so I bi-amp the bass and panels on separate stereo amps using the amps crossover capability. Right now I am feeding the amps directly with an Asus Xonar Essence STX card with upgraded MUSES02 Op-amps. I use the Maxedtech Uni Xonar drivers on Windows 8.1 Pro x64. UNi Xonar Drivers official page - MaxedTech I am thinking of going to Server 2012r2 on the music PC as well.

 

My plan is to purchase a Schiit Yggdrasil DAC in the next 6 months and then some proper mono-block amps after that.

 

Please feel free to pick apart my logic and make suggestions.

 

thanks

 

Allen

[fakeM]

THis is really a long thread, is there any one whom test SOtM iSO-CAT6 for ethernet isolation?

Thank you.

[MHzTweaker]

THis is really a long thread, is there any one whom test SOtM iSO-CAT6 for ethernet isolation?

Thank you.

 

 

 

I have not tested the ISO-CAT6 personally. It was actually cheaper for me to install a dedicated 10GB fiber optic connection from my switch to my new audio PC.

 

HP Procurve J8436A 10gb tranceiver $35 on ebay

30 meter OM3 fiber cable $25 on ebay

Dell/Intel RN219 XF 10GB NIC $50 on ebay

 

 

I also ran across these "Acoustic Revive" Isolators from Japan for around $150

 

acoustic revive lan isolator | eBay

[mourip]

Question. I can easily see how network isolation might help with a NAS based system or a two PC system where music is being transferred however have any of you tried it with a simple audio server with network access just there for remote control or remote access?

 

My server has the music drive inside it so I am wondering if I would see any benefit. I guess that I could just start a song and disconnect the ethernet cable as a test?

 

Thanks!

 

Paul

[pl_svn]

that's my scenario

 

I'm using optical isolation between my router (and "not music related" computing devices) and my Mac mini (dedicated music player)

 

main reason I opted for such a setup, is that each and every component (down to ethernet switches) of the "music playing" part of my network is running on LPSs and this is what actually brought the greatest benefits

[fakeM]

I have not tested the ISO-CAT6 personally. It was actually cheaper for me to install a dedicated 10GB fiber optic connection from my switch to my new audio PC.

 

HP Procurve J8436A 10gb tranceiver $35 on ebay

30 meter OM3 fiber cable $25 on ebay

Dell/Intel RN219 XF 10GB NIC $50 on ebay

 

 

I also ran across these "Acoustic Revive" Isolators from Japan for around $150

 

acoustic revive lan isolator | eBay

but I'm not interested in the Acoustic Revive's one, that was even noisy and not worthy to try for me which was very bad experience and a expensive toy.

[zettelsm]

I just came downstairs from the best digital music listening session I've had yet -- and all I did was replace a 10m run of Cat6 ethernet with 10m of SC-SC 9/125 fiber with a TP-Link CS210SC converter at each end and a short Cat6 jumper, between an AirPort Extreme hub and Aurender N100.

 

I'm hearing the effects of a lower noise floor -- a little less edge and sharpness on vocals and a bit more separation and silence between notes. Overall, a nice bump up in natural timbre and texture. As many here have reported, a more relaxed and fatigue-free listening experience, especially with recordings that need a little forgiveness in the first place. With really well-recorded material and particularly hi-res PCM and DSD the effect is magical. And this is with the stock power supplies on both ends. I look forward to hearing the improvement with a decent linear PSU or iPower on the receiving side.

 

Well worth the modest expense, and the installation was plug and play straight outof the box.

 

My thanks and appreciation to Eurodriver, jabbr and all the rest that have so generously shared you experience.

 

Steve Z

[russellbobby]

Hi All,

Thanks for the advice in advance.

My setup is stock At&T router with a 25ft run of cat 6 to a Linksys $20 network switch. 1 6ft cat 6 cable goes to an Aurender N100s and another goes to an Oppo 105d Modwright tube dac. All my music files are stored on the internal HD of the Aurender. I do stream Tidal. Will my system benefit from some form of Isolation or is it for folks who use a NAS?.

Tell me what to buy and I will try it.

Thanks,

Russ

[lmitche]

Russ, I have a 100 foot run of Blue Jean cable running into a WiFi router on a separate subnet dedicated to my audio system. There is an Ethernet isolation transformer between the long cable run and the router wan port. From the router a set of optical FMCs connect to a fanless NAS. The NAS is programmed to act as a virtual switch where the second port connects to the audio PC isolated with a second Ethernet transformer. I have tested many combinations of these devices over time, and this seems the best arrangement for SQ. With these devices, ac isolation, and the use of Iscsi boot and music disks to the audio PC, the combination yields a bottomless noise floor on the best recordings.

[mjb]

I'm a little intrigued how fiber for gigabit data (1000BaseT) apparently makes such a wonderful improvement, whereas fiber for kilobit data (TOSlink) is shunned.

[lmitche]

I'm a little intrigued how fiber for gigabit data (1000BaseT) apparently makes such a wonderful improvement, whereas fiber for kilobit data (TOSlink) is shunned.

 

Toshlink is a very old standard that suffered from many poor implementations. If it were updated, it would be more accepted. Here is a recent thread on the subject. http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/why-not-toslink-26792/index2.html

[Audio_ELF]

I'm a little intrigued how fiber for gigabit data (1000BaseT) apparently makes such a wonderful improvement, whereas fiber for kilobit data (TOSlink) is shunned.

Just for correctness, when you use fibre for gigabit networking it isn't 1000BASE-T, it is 1000BASE-LX (multi-mode fibre) or 1000BASE-SX (single mode fibre). 1000BASE-T specifically referring to gigabit Ethernet over twist pair cabling.

[yincr]

Fiber for networking and toslink ared used in different contexts, in my case, I use fiber in a HQPlayer/NAA setup, isolating both computers through the optical link. By the way, my setup sounds better using fiber. You can find a recent thread about toslink here in CA, also, this is a very interesting thread about network isolation, just read recent posts.

[russellbobby]

Thanks for the tips. Could I just upgrade the Ethernet cabling and the switch. I like the Optical idea. What parts do I need?

Router>30 ft Ethernet cable >switch>2 3 ft Ethernet cables to Oppo and Aurender. Like to keep it simple as possible.

Thanks