The new generation UltraCap LPS-1.2: USER IMPRESSIONS and QUESTIONS thread

[Superdad]

People are beginning to receive their UltraCap LPS-1.2 units from the first shipment that went out last week.  I will add some more introductory detail here in a few days, but figured I'd best put up an "official" thread for user comments--rather than have them land in the Announcement/Launch thread.

 

 

Already a fellow named Tim received his on Saturday and shot me this message from his phone:

 

"Hey Alex got my LPS-1.2 today and has FAR EXCEEDED my lofty expectation on what this could do for my audio chain. Am using with a JACAT usb card and the LPS 1.2 has made a huge difference over the ifi that I was currently using! Looks like you knocked it outta the park on this one!"

 

 

[Superdad]

19 minutes ago, mozes said:

Chord Qutest

 

Also Chord 2Qute now that the UltraCap output range extends to 12V.  

[Superdad]

On 2/19/2018 at 10:08 AM, tims said:

To those that have the new LPS-1.2 and also the LPS-1.0,  I'd be interested in a head to head comparison between these two especially now the 1.2 is using the LT3045 regulator.

 

Well here is a quote from an UltraRendu owner who received his LPS-1.2 over the weekend.  (Kevin lurks a lot here at CA but does not post, so he gave me permission to quote him.)

 

"Hi Alex,

First impression: you guys knocked it out of the ballpark. I just replaced my LPS 1 with the 1.2... no other change, and my system has never sounded better than it sounds right now (connected to an UltraRendu). 

Congratulations on a job well, no make that superlatively, done. 

Regards,
Kevin"

 

[EDIT: Looks like Kevin likes it so much he just ordered another.  Warms my heart! ]

[Superdad]

36 minutes ago, peterzui said:

Really ?

"Device power supply" for the Qutest is specified as 5V/2A,  so the combination with the LPS-1.2 will (unfortunately) not work

 

Yes, really.   Rob Watts of Chord himself confirmed this right here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-qutest-dac-official-thread.869417/page-2#post-13964721

[Superdad]

On 2/22/2018 at 9:12 AM, Qstik said:

I have to say that even though I made the leap of faith to purchase the LPS-1.2, I was sceptical that my ears would be able to hear any real differences.  After all, we are talking about a power supply for a digital signal clean-up device!  Bits are bits!  The reason my A/B didn't take long is because the differences were not subtle.  I clearly heard improved soundstaging, better depth of soundstage, improved bass definition and dynamics, less glare for top-hats and cymbals, and improved transient harmonics and definition for pianos and violins.

 

That's awesome.  Really happy that you--and so many others--are pleased with the results of our efforts.  Thanks for posting!  

--Alex C.

 

P.S.  I see that this is your first post here at CA.  Whether you are truly new here or a long time lurker just now feeling compelled to write--a big welcome to you! 

[Superdad]

29 minutes ago, austinpop said:

I want a meter too! Is this a DIY project requiring soldering or other materials, or can I just buy the Amazon part, and stick the wires into the 3 ports (GVI) in the back?

 

The wires of the meter line up nicely, with the voltage wire already being in the middle of the zipped three wires.  But the wire gauge is thinner than I had hoped, so the header socket—meant for standard 0.1” pitch pins—does not grip or hold the wires.  You might try stripping a bit more insulation off of them and folding/twisting doubled up ends to make them thicker for insertion.  Solder tinning the doubled up wires would help too.  Best of all would be soldering to a matching 3-pin male header, but that’s a bit more work.

 

John and I are still thinking about our own, similarly size display, designed in such a way that it would just peek up from behind the LPS-1.2.  But we are both busy with other things now, so the cheap Bayite displays will have to do for now.

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, jky999 said:

The difference over the LPS 1 is immediately apparent.  Better bass, better resolution and everything is so much more cohesive.  It's an A/B that takes moments to hear.  Depending upon where you're at in the journey, this one is a no-brainer.  I'd clearly do this before cable changes or source changes.   

 

The change is very meaningful and not so subtle.  

 

Nice!  Thanks for posting.  Looks like you have a terrific system there.

[Superdad]

10 minutes ago, agladstone said:

If you find any similar devices on Amazon that would also work, please post a link to them on Amazon for us. Particularly one of the models that comes in a small enclosure vs the bare open back on the Baylite would be preferred (there are a bunch that are enclosed on Amazon, I just don’t know which one of them will work. also, several of the enclosed models show Volts, Amperage, and power/ watt consumption simultaneously, if any of those would work, that would be really cool!! ) 

thanks!

 

A lot of the others won't work because the input voltage range they run from is wrong.  And some of them suck a modest amount of current themselves just to power the display.

 

Really what is needed (besides a fully custom meter from us) is to attach the wires to a proper 0.1" 3-pin male rectangular pin header so that the Bayite meter can be plugged in securely.  Unfortunately I have yet to find (have not looked for long) a male header with screw terminals for attaching the wires without having to solder.

However, I did just find this header with nice solder cups:

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/mill-max-manufacturing-corp/380-10-103-00-002000/ED10253-ND/8019516

 

 

[Superdad]

7 hours ago, Hauser said:

A couple of questions for Alex:  are case dimensions of LPS 1.2 same as for LPS1?

                                                        does LPS 1.2 operate at similar temperature to LPS 1 at same voltage/current?

 

Exact same case dimensions.

 

Very similar temperature at a given output voltage/current load (We have done thermal imaging of the boards, but I have not had a chance to "hot soak" for a couple of hours an LPS-1 and LPS-1.2 side by side with 1A load to image/measure the cases.  We already know that an LPS-1 under continuous 1A load will warm to 52C (126F).  As designed for. 

[Superdad]

14 minutes ago, Colin Green said:

I was going to ask the same question, and if the LPs-1 can be used to charge the LPS-2, presumably you’d set the voltage of the LPS-1 to 7v. Would that suffice?

 

Absolutely not possible or even desirable!  

 

First off, the UltraCap LPS-1.2 requires a charger truly capable of 36 watts.  MUST equal 36W or greater.  We include a 7.5V/4.8A unit, but 9V/4A, 12V/3A, 18V/2A, 24V/1.5A are all acceptable charger ratings (see how the V*A=26W).

 

Secondly, it is a complete misunderstanding of the isolated, bank alternating, never-connected architecture of our UltraCap supplies to believe that cleaner charging power results in any change to the final output of our unit.   Feed it the noisiest crap power, and as long as it is in the required wattage range, you will get the same ultra-low-noise out of it.

 

There is one exception, and that is with regards to the original LPS-1 (not the LPS-1.2) and the singular case of unique high-impedance AC leakage current from an SMPS that does not have its DC output zero-volt "ground" shunted to AC ground.

Please refer to these two posts:

 

 

The new 36W SMPS charger that ships with the UltraCap LPS-1.2 already has the DC>AC ground-shunt internally, so the above is a non-issue for it. (And as a belt-and-suspenders move, we also changed to transistors with 1/3 the capacitance of those in the original LPS-1--further blocking the path of any high-impedance leakage, though with a shunted SMPS there is almost none coming in.)

In addition, some people have either done John's DIY ground-shunt trick or obtained a supply that is that way in the first place, or use a cheap linear as there is not much AC leakage from those.

 

So again, "cleaner" charger power for the UltraCap supplies is meaningless.  

 

All that leaves is whatever allergies people have to having an SMPS plugged into their wall.  As I've said before, modern SMPS units--having to meet stringent emissions standards--kick only very low amplitude, very high frequency, spread-spectrum harmonics back into the wall. (And traditional linear power supples put low frequency harmonics back into the wall; That's why people hear differences with AC power cords on their amps--the cord acts as a filter for the harmonics going from the amp to the wall.)

The lighting circuits (dimmers, etc.) and general wall quality in most people's homes is more detrimental than what a decent SMPS kicks in.  The real evil of SMPS is the large amount of AC leakage (mostly low-impedance leakage) that they put out--but that is completely ignored by our UltraCap supplies.

 

Sure hope we can leave this topic behind soon. Much more fun to read about how much everyone is enjoying the new LPS-1.2! 

 

--Alex C.

 

 

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, Cornan said:

In any case I will feed my coming LPS-1.2 with a floating SMPS followed by an additional LT3045.

 

Well then you will be putting high-impedance leakage into the LPS-1.2 with your ungrounded SMPS.  The lower capacitance transistors of the new model will deal with this somewhat, but really you are not doing yourself any favors.

 

And why follow the LPS-1.2's LT3045 regulators with another pair of LT3045s on a DIY board?

 

2 hours ago, Cornan said:

If it would be possible to feed it with a LPS-1/LPS-1.2 with for example 12v/<1.1A for lower voltages like 5v/0.5A it could be a really interesting power supply to these eyes. I am keen to know if it is possible rather than recommended. If I would have relied on recommendations from manufactorers alone there where a lot of great SQ that I would have missed during the years in this hobby.

 

No it will not be possible!  EVER!  The LPS-1.2, in all input and output cases, requires far more current to charge than its 1.1A output capability.

 

Further discussion of chargers and non-standard usage will be summarily moved to this old LPS-1 thread:

 

 

[Superdad]

6 minutes ago, Zerstorer78 said:

Does anyone find that the LPS1.2 is scorchingly hot? I have mine set to 7v powering a microrendu and it makes both so hot that it's painful to touch for more than a second. I just swapped over from a LPS1 and it was never so hot.

 

Should not be that much hotter--if at all--when running it set to output 7V.  I am going to do some more thermal imaging this weekend of both LPS-1 and LPS-1.2, using a controlled constant load at 0.5A and 1.0A and will then publish images and temperature measurements. 

[Superdad]

22 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

If you can not touch case - temp is 60C++. I don't see any heatbridges to transfer heat to the case, means PCB temp much higher, that would be a lifetime for supercaps (which is very sensitive for the operating temp) 

 

The LPS-1.2 case does not get over 60C.  I will publish thermal photos with accurate measurements later today.

 

The supercaps are being run far below their rated voltage, so lifetime, even at high temperatures s not much of an issue.

[Superdad]

Okay, so here are the case temperature test results and proof:

[By the way, the internationally recognized IEC 60065 safety standard for maximum case temperature of a consumer device in a metal enclosure is 70C (158 Fahrenheit).]

 

Orignal UltraCap LPS-1, set to output 7V, driving a 1 amp load for 1 hour:  126.2 F = 52.33C

 

 

New generation UltraCap LPS-1.2, set to output 7V, driving a 1 amp load for 1 hour:  130.4 F = 54.66C

 

I left the second one for another hour.  It did not get any hotter than the above.

 

So yes, the new model runs just 4.2 degrees F (2.33C) hotter than the original.

None of this is scorching news...  

 

 

[Superdad]

6 minutes ago, agladstone said:

Alex: 

FYI, since reading this , I’ve touched my LPS1.2 case and I can say that mine is also extremely hot (and my DAC / Aurender have both been in standby for about 12 hours too!) - definitely MUCH hotter than my original LPS-1 ever got, it seems so hot to the touch it’s almost concerning (but just based upon my touch, not a temp read out). 

I will lay a thermal thermometer probe on top of it now and see what the temp is after 10 mins or so (I have a digital thermometer probe with display , I’m assuming it’s fairly accurate?) 

What is the best voltage and Amperage to use to power the LPS-1.2 that would also perhaps lower heat output?  (7.5 vs 12, etc )? 

 

I think you must have missed the photos and measurements I posted a couple hours ago.  Based on my tests with precision instruments and accurate full 1A loads, anyone claiming that the new LPS-1.2 runs markedly hotter than the original LPS-1 is imagining things.  There is less the a 5-degree Fahrenheit difference between the two!

 

Most of the heat is from the supercaps themselves, so while there are very minor variations in heat based on charger voltage, there is no point in changing from the 7.5V/4.8A/36W charger unit we include.

 

If anyone is concerned about heat (and there really is no need to be), then stand your LPS-1/1.2 on edge or on its face.  Cooling will be much improved that way.  

Again, this is a non-issue.  The product was designed this way and the components are running well under their limits.  We pay close attention the value-tolerance, voltage, wattage, and thermal ratings of every single part on the boards.  We often will spend 2-4 times for a better rated part, to be certain the products will perform properly for many years.

 

[Superdad]

4 hours ago, simonklp said:

 

Hi Alex, I understand that your key message was that the temperature difference between the new and old models is small.

 

But, in order to be explicit, could you please kindly advise on the ambient temperature under which the test had been carried out? Thanks.

 

It was 70 degrees Fahrenheit in my office when I conducted the tests.

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, [email protected] said:

P.S. You can try to have same thermal image for the open case board

 

Yes we did all that during development.  We are well aware of the temperatures of all parts and their ratings.

 

1 hour ago, [email protected] said:

P.P.S. I think you need to drill/mill ventilation holes

 

Between origianl LPS-1 and New LPS-1.2 we have close to 2,000 units in the field.  This product has proven reliable and is backed by a 3-year warranty—though we certainly expect them to last many years beyond that.

 

Alexey, since you are also a purveyor of power supplies (though just DIY at present), I feel it is inappropriate of you to come to our sponsored forum to critique our products and promote doubt about them.

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

Can I use an el cheapo Chinese LPS rated at 9v/30w to energize the LPS-1.2?

 

No.  36W is the requirement for the LPS-1.2.  Besides, I have had that exact model Chinese unit on my bench and:

a) It came nowhere near being able to put out its rated 3.3A at 9V--got it to about 2.5A before the voltage starting dropping quickly;

b) I ran VERY hot when pushed.

[Superdad]

3 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Also one observation regarding the LPS-1.2. I've noticed that any time I change voltage via the rotary on the back panel, it is easy to get in a mode where the LED stays RED. This happens either if you make the voltage change:

1. while the unit is on. LED will go red, and never cycle to green
2. while the unit is off via the push buttion, but energizing supply is still connected. Same thing - LED stays red on restart with the button.
3. when the energizing supply has been disconnected, the LED has gone dark, but only a very short time has transpired. Again - perpetual red LED.

The only way I can reliably get it to work after a voltage change is to:

• physically disconnect the energizer supply
• wait 30 seconds or so
• plug back in and turn on.

This works 100% of the time. Just a weird quirk, but it did worry me initially.

 

You may call them quirks, but EVERY ONE OF THOSE BEHAVIORS IS EXACTLY AS DESIGNED!    

Such is even briefly mentioned in the manual.  Every time the output voltage switch is changed, every time the input power is applied or removed, the entire unit has to go through a discharge and diagnostic routine.

The original LPS-1 also did this, but the reboot time was always the same 74 seconds.  With the LPS-1.2 John's charging circuits and software routines are more complex, so he was able to make it so that 5V boots faster that 12V--again, depending upon prior setting and state of charge.

 

We ask that people power off the LPS-1.2 (with the button is fine) and wait for the LED to go dark before changing output voltage setting.  No harm will come if you change the switch while the unit is powered on, but you will still have to wait through a discharge/reboot cycle.  If you try hard enough, there are probably a couple of ways to fool the LPS-1.2 and cause it to get pissed off and just flash red, so please don't that.   In any case, removing charge power, letting it go dark, and then rebooting will make everything right.

[Superdad]

36 minutes ago, austinpop said:

And same deal with the HDPlex 100 (the old one) - correct? As I recall, you said it can cause overvoltage spikes that will damage the LPS-1.2? Is this a danger even if I use the 9V rail?

 

No, the original HDPLEX 100W (and maybe some 200W?) that were acknowledged not to have over-voltage protection--and would sometimes throw some big spike or simply go high--were a separate case entirely.  And really related more to the original LPS-1 which did not take kindly to spikes above about 15-16V (a particular regulator chip in the charge circuit would get a nice little hole burned into it).

 

The LPS-1.2 has a much wider input voltage range: 7V-24V.  Its current requirement at a given charger voltage is easy to find: Just take 36 watts and divide by the voltage you would like to use.  So 36W divided by 9V tells you that to use a 9V supply it needs to be capable of  4 amps.  With a 24V supply you would need just 1.5A.

 

The UltraCap LPS-1.2 does not actually draw that much current on a continuous basis (and if tin its lower-current, under 0.5A output mode it draws much less), but it does draw upwards of 36W during charge cycles.

[Superdad]

10 minutes ago, tboooe said:

In a previous post you listed various input voltages that would work with the LPS-1.2 but you did not have 19v.  I assume this is also fine as long as 36W is available?  I have a spare 19v output available on my HDPlex that I would like to use to power 2 LPS-1.2 (just ordered one btw!)

 

Hi Tommy,

 

Saw your order, thanks!

 

Yes, the input voltage range and wattage requirements are different between the original LPS-1 and the new LPS-1.2.

 

LPS-1 needed about 18W and 12V was the highest allowed (so 7.5V/2.5A, 9V/2.0A, 12V/1.5A).

 

LPS-1.2 needs 36W, and the input range extends up to 24V.  So 7.5V/4.8A, 9V/4A, 12V/3A, 18V/2A, 24V/1.5A.  Since your HDPLEX 19V output is capable of more than 2A, that will be fine.  

[Superdad]

21 hours ago, hifiveharry said:

Then the LPS 1.2 showed up ( thanks Alex) and now my digital sounds a lot better. More articulate with better drive from each instrument. Larger soundstage with much better air around each performer. All from a battery upgrade just on the IsoRegen! I am now ordering a second LPS 1.2 for my UltraRendu. It's a slam dunk! I'm also VERY interested in anyone with a better (read audiophile) ethernet switch. I'm positive that is the weak link in my digital system at this point. Great product and excellent customer service!

 

Hi Harry:

Thanks for your nice report.  So glad you are enjoying the UltraCap LPS-1.2 in your music system!

 

You might want to sit tight on the "audiophile Ethernet switch" thing for a few months.  Were are working on something (yes a switch, but from the ground up, not a modification of anything) but we are not ready to discuss the details.  As usual for UpTone, it will be radically different, very effective, and a great value.  

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, mozes said:Hi Alex

 

Is it ok to combine one LPS-1 and one LPS-1.2 in series to get 19V? 

 

Sure, that will work just fine.  Max current is still about 1.1A though.

[Superdad]

18 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

Too bad a 500 mA version wouldn’t be half price.

 

You're right, it wouldn't. 

 

18 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

Will most likely end up buying one or two more LPS-1.2 

 

Sure, you are welcome to join the multi-LPS1.2 owner's club any time! 

 

18 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

BTW. My new class D mono blocks arrived from the US today ?

 

Cool, what amps did you get?

[Superdad]

FYI, new thread created for early info and questions about our unique Ethernet switch development product: