Michael Lavorgna strikes back.......

[Indydan]

20 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Wow, I missed this one entirely while at RMAF. 

 

I take this as a direct stab at CA and the business that feeds my family. Not cool.

 

I wouldn't care that much, but it doesn't help when I try to tell people about CA and they group us in with every forum wacko that has ever trolled the internet. The people here are a cut above and smarter than most people I meet on a daily basis. I've learned a great deal from everyone. 

 

I could go on, but hopefully others see his comments as more reflective of him and his current situation, than CA and the wonderful contributors here. 

 

I was surprised to learn in the first posts of this thread, that ML had been banned. I have found that you Chris, are very tolerant and give posters a lot of leeway. Some posters here would have been banned on other forums. Hence, my surprise that ML had been banned. 

 

But, if he really did tell a CA member to go eff his mother, well then his ban was well deserved. I don't mean to kick ML and take cheap shots, but I find his behaviour disappointing. I enjoy reading his site (though less lately). He is a very good writer, and has an obvious passion for music and audio. I especially enjoy reading Steven Plaskin's reviews. 

 

But, when ML would post here, it appeared to me he was playing games and being facetious. It looked like he would avoid answering questions directly, and would try to anger members. Once a member would erupt and lose his cool, ML would then discredit him and state something like, it was impossible to have a rational conversation. It seemed like he would play these games to discredit others, to avoid answering questions and make himself look good and more mature. He is somewhat skilled at these games, but I think some people here saw right through him. 

 

I find that his site is not as good as it used to be. I loved that site before. I learned a lot from it. For the past year or so, there are less reviews and technical articles. It is more about ML posting personal opinions, and videos of himself playing the guitar with his buddies. Those personal videos should be on his Facebook page, not a commercial site. I hate to kick a guy when he is down (so to speak). But, it seems I am not the only one who is disappointed by some of his behaviour. 

[Indydan]

13 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I saw him at RMAF. He was friendly and complimented my shoes. 

 

What I missed was this article. I don't usually have time to browse other sites while covering a trade show. This time was no exception. 

 

I am not defending ML, and it is normal that his post would anger you Chris. But, I get the impression he was taking a shot at the forum members here, and not you or your website. The thing is, to take a swipe at CA forum members, he had to identify your site.

 

Maybe you can discuss this with him, if you still have an interest in maintaining some kind of professional courtesy or working relationship with him. 

[Indydan]

4 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

This is called trolling, and it has existed on the internet for decades.

True, But most trolls are obvious in their behaviour. They do it for the fun they get from disrupting sites, and getting a reaction from people. I don't get the impression ML was doing it for this reason, but more to prove he was right, or to pursue an agenda (for lack of a better term). 

[Indydan]

5 minutes ago, wgscott said:

 

That's right.  I agree completely.

 

The only think I would add is that by doing so, he was also trying to discredit the website.  He is by no means stupid; I doubt this was accidental.

Agreed. He is not stupid, and he knew exactly what he was doing. 

[Indydan]

20 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Hi Guys - Michael and I have exchanged emails this afternoon. I don't believe I'll be receiving a holiday card from him this year. 

 

So Chris, you now have a little feud going with Michael Lavorgna who runs Audiostream, and Michael Fremer who runs Analog planet. Both of those sites are owned by the Ten Network and affiliated with Stereophile.

 

My question is, when will you get into a fight with Tyll Hertsens of Innerfidelity?!  

[Indydan]

Just now, The Computer Audiophile said:

Too funny. Michael Fremer and I are back on good terms. We patched it up at RMAF in 2016. 

Well that is good to hear! I think Michael is impulsive and passionate, which sometimes leads to him reacting a little strongly. Most of the time, he seems like a very nice person. 

[Indydan]

Preaching from the guy who was banned from CA for telling someone to go fuck his mother. Too funny!

 

https://www.audiostream.com/content/internet-anger-good-audiostream-public-service-announcement

 

 

[Indydan]

The 3rd pro MQA article by Lavorgna in the last few weeks. Reading between the lines, he seems to be taking a few cheap shots at anti MQA forums, like the forums on CA. 

 

https://www.audiostream.com/content/mqa-drm

[Indydan]

What is Lavorgna trying to say here exactly? It looks like a way of clouding the issue, to justify himself telling a CA poster to "go fuck his mother". 

 

He seems to be proud of acting rudely, for no other reason than to be unpleasant. It seems like he used more words than required to explain his behavior, in order to cloud the issue and obfuscate people, so that his behavior "appears" defensible and justified. 

 

He is reasonably good at using "smoke and mirrors" manipulative techniques, to make himself look good and trying to make others look bad. He tries to argue "beside" the subject matter, rather than about it. 

 

A hate to denigrate someone I have never met. But, I perceive him to be disingenuous and manipulative.

 

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

image: https://www.audiostream.com/images/user_account_pictures/picture-27619-1513619551.jpg

Let me explain

Submitted by Michael Lavorgna on February 8, 2018 - 7:39am

There appears to be another narrative around my use of profanity in a PM to a CA member. My intention in sending that message was twofold:

1. to be as offensive as possible using the least amount of words (4)
2. in doing so to communicate to CA my complete and utter disregard for the forum

I immediately followed up my first PM with another suggesting that if the first message was not offensive, for the recipient to please think of something that was. This was not done out of anger, it was completely calculated. Note that I know Chris publishes private messages since he's done exactly that to me in the past.

To my mind, I have succeeded on both counts. While I do not plan to repeat this performance, those 4 words loose their bite after the first time, the only impact has been increased traffic to my site from CA.

Cheers

Read more at https://www.audiostream.com/content/mqa-drm#txHyCZHI5bGyAARq.99

[Indydan]

12 minutes ago, Spacehound said:

Take no notice of Plaskin, he owns a vast amount of snake oil and always says it is effective in improving things. He's even got a gadget that claims to give out waves that affect your brain and in his 'review' he said it makes a difference. 

 

And the more expensive the gadget  the better.

 

I have no problem with Plaskin's appreciation of so called snake oil devices. I don't believe everything he says (or anyone for that matter), but I don't assume he is lying. It is quite possible that he hears these improvements in his system, and he believes the devices are responsible for the improvements in sound quality. At least his opinion is based on actual experience with the devices. Even if I disagree, I don't feel comfortable refuting someone forcefully if I have not myself tried out the product. 

 

But, I am a bit disappointed with Plaskin's recent comments. He has stated rude things about CA and its members (he seems to lump all of us into a homogenous group of troublemakers); and stated it to sound more like fact than opinion. 

 

 

[Indydan]

6 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I saw John Atkinson at the McIntosh event in NYC last week. He told me that it's a popular saying in Russia and isn't seen as something negative. 

 

I'm being 100% honest.

 

Oh geez. I like to think JA is better than that. That is such a pathetic justification! Especially since Lavorgna recently wrote on his site, that he was trying to be as offensive as possible, when he wrote that to a CA member. 

 

It doesn't seem like Lavorgna was employing a little known expression from Russian culture when he did that. 

 

Maybe we should all PM Atkinson and tell him to go eff his mother. He should be OK with it... (just joking). 

[Indydan]

Double post. 

[Indydan]

12 minutes ago, Mercman said:

I didn't say rude things about CA and its members. I just quoted rude remarks made about me. Read again who is saying what.

Steve, first of all, I should have stated that I do not condone name calling (jerk, lackey, etc) and outright personal attacks. I have no problem with you calling out people who call you names and attack your integrity. You are justified in doing this.

 

Now for the other things you wrote. I copy pasted some of what you wrote below:

 

"I am deeply disturbed by the destructive anger that is being encouraged at another site dedicated to our hobby. Most audiophiles I know couldn’t give two shits about MQA. But the vitriol and devise behavior being propagated displays to me some serious issues that need to be addressed - and they are not audio issues."

 

You pretty much say posters here are angry destructive people who have serious issues. Is that not what you meant? 

 

I don't mean to be picky, but I believe if you are truly Steven Plaskin, you must identify yourself and your industry affiliation on CA. 

[Indydan]

2 minutes ago, Mercman said:

I didn't say EVERYONE, just some people. Most of AudioStream's readers are CA readers. Our hobby is very small.

 

"You pretty much say posters here are angry destructive people who have serious issues. Is that not what you meant?"

Absolutely not!!! My writing is very clear and doesn't need embellishment.

I will change my listing of Mercman. I have been coming here for years long before I was a reviewer.

 

You didn't write everyone, nor did you write SOME or a FEW. To me, it was vague and open to interpretation. 

 

We can agree to disagree on the clarity of what you wrote. I do accept your explanation that you did not mean everyone, and I thank you for clarifying. 

[Indydan]

30 minutes ago, mansr said:

I suggest not visiting his site. If you must, be sure to use an ad/tracking blocker.

 

His 3 recent pro MQA articles, were deliberately done to stir things up here on CA; and to get people to visit his site. 

 

I have noticed that his site is less consistent in putting out a review every week. Also, I find some of the articles posted have nothing to do with music or audiophile matters. I used to really enjoy reading Audiostream. Now, no.

 

Could it be he has to resort to trickery and provocation to jack up his site's number of visits? I am confident he does it because he enjoys kicking a hornet's nest. But, there may be financial reasons for it as well. 

[Indydan]

5 hours ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

His demeanor has always struck me as being somewhat inspired by Tony Soprano.  The machismo is sometimes palpable.

 

So Lavorgna's demeanor is Tony Soprano like... Does that make Plaskin like Paulie?  

 

 

 

[Indydan]

2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Anyone  heard any good music lately?

 

I very much like this song. Sorry Chris, I couldn’t resist.

 

 

[Indydan]

I am not a fan of ML. But, I would make sure I had proof before calling him or anyone else a shill. You have to expect someone will defend themselves if their integrity is attacked.

 

 

[Indydan]

ML says he will review this device,

 

https://www.audiostream.com/content/barn-gigafoilv4-–-inline

 

I honestly am not sure of the benefits this can provide. Has anyone tried this device, or one similar to it?

[Indydan]

Just now, skikirkwood said:

 

Publishing glowing articles about the virtues of $1000 ethernet cables is all of the proof I need. QED.

I am not trying to pick a fight. But, that is all you need to form an opinion. An opinion is not proof. 

 

If if you had to prove in court that he was a shill, this would not be proof.

[Indydan]

8 hours ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

For my generation in particular, Star Trek was much, much more than a television show.

 

I understand that. I am also a fan of real Star Trek (I despise the movies from 2009 and after, as well as that horrible ST Discovery). But, of all the great Star Trek characters, LOL you chose Samuel T. Cogley as your nickname and avatar ;-)

 

I wish I had chosen Captain Pike as my nickname. I could have used a picture of him in that black slab on wheels. Regrets, regrets... 

 

[Indydan]

1 hour ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

Same actor, same series, different role:

 

 

Yes, Star Trek more than once used the same actor in different roles and episodes. Jeffrey Combs and Vaughn Armstrong come to mind. 

[Indydan]

Well today is the big day. Lavorgna's new website launches. When I try to access it, I get a virus warning and the page is blocked by my Sophos anti virus software. Hmmm...

 

www.twitteringmachines.com

[Indydan]

15 hours ago, firedog said:

I just accessed the site, no problem. Looks nice. I'm sure the haters will hate it, but it seems like a nice resource to me and he made some  equipment recommendations, including budget ones. That's a good thing that audiophile sites often ignore.

He also seems to have lined up some advertisers, so I think the site will be around for a while. 

 

I can now access it as well. There will be moderated comments. 

[Indydan]

This thread on ML's facebook page is something. Lavorgna is not only not ashamed, for telling someone to go eff his mother, he brags about it! He seems to be really proud of himself.

 

He also says some really childish things about posters here, especially one specifically. 

 

https://www.facebook.com/michael.lavorgna.tm/posts/2068764729822723