Liquid Conductors in your Interconnect Cables

[Ralf11]

9 minutes ago, bumperdoo said:

 all the theory in the World won't tell you how something sounds.

 

 

I think we are getting to the problem

[djd]

4 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

 

 

I think we are getting to the problem

I agree .. bumperdoo Doo.. look at what you just said ... Really man ! 

Houston we have a problem ! 

 

[GrahamJohnMiles]

I'm really surprised the moderator hasn't shut this thread down. It has degenerated into the same argument we have been hearing about cables for the past 30 years. Those who have heard them, including myself, do not need to convince others of their capability. Those who have not heard them are not qualified to pass judgement. Time to move on folks, and probably time for me to find another forum where people enjoy music.

[Speedskater]

30 minutes ago, GrahamJohnMiles said:

 Those who have not heard them are not qualified to pass judgement. Time to move on folks, and probably time for me to find another forum where people enjoy music.

I would think the opposite.

Those that don't hear a difference can demonstrate in several different ways that the differences are too small to be audible.

Ways like:

1] Textbook theory and formula.

2] Computer simulation (like SPICE)

3] Real world measurement.

4] Blind listening tests. (by interested listeners)

* * * * * * * * * * *

It's those that write about hearing differences that need to demonstrate that they do in fact hear differences.

[Speedskater]

Let me clarify that:

a] Not all cables are good cables.

b] All good cables sound alike. (with conditional statements)

c] If cables sound different, there will be significant measurement differences.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

a] A good cable should sound like a zero length cable, it should not add or subtract anything from the sound.

b] There are more demands placed on long cables than short cables.

c] Harsh electrical environments can place more EMI/RFI demands on interconnect cables.

d] Some loudspeakers place more demands on speaker cables than other loudspeakers.

e] There are other situation specific conditions.

 

 

[bumperdoo]

You guys are right - foolish me to comment on how something sounds on an audio forum. I need to learn to listen to music with the volume turned off and just read the liner notes on how the recording was made to pass judgement on how the album sounds.

 

2 hours ago, GrahamJohnMiles said:

Those who have heard them, including myself, do not need to convince others of their capability. Those who have not heard them are not qualified to pass judgement. Time to move on folks, and probably time for me to find another forum where people enjoy music.

 

+1

[jabbr]

On 6/5/2017 at 4:27 PM, Ralf11 said:

 

I thought this would be fun for those tired of stopping jitter with regeneration or origami blur discussions.

 

"With a solid conductor, or rather, an alloy or element in a solidus (below melting point) atomic lattice configuration. In such condition, ‘electrical response’ , or electron flow, is restricted to electron orbital ‘co-joined’ pathways in the atomic lattice. This is the situation in what we call ‘DC Flow’ in the given conductor. This relates to named observations like Johnson–Nyquist noise. "

 

Quoted by the OP. This issue is not with how the cables sound rather the pseudo-scientific BS that is being used as marketing copy on the website.

 

Surely if all that is important is the sound then what would be the relevance of scientismic jargon? 

[[email protected]]

Exactly the point here .

I actually ordered a standard pair on Canuck Audio as the outfit listed on sale .. Standard rca 3 ft pair 650 bucks .

I thought ok money back guarantee.  Humm ok he's 3 hours drive away I can go see him  if a problem . Well google earth showed his address in a house. Ok humm only 5 star rating and 3 are him as a purchaser .. Humm well I paid via paypal. Took him 2 days to acknowledge and was going to ship in 2 weeks . What I thought he be having stock  and no replys I got cold feet . Got $ back .

To much bs marketing and I almost fell for it . 

Hey he could have a great cable but at 650 $ not chump change and I don't want to be treated like one !

[OldBigEars]

On ‎6‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 7:22 PM, bumperdoo said:

 

Understood, but what you *think* is very different from actual experience, so I wonder how your contributions here are of value. Till you've actually listened to them, I think we got your point that's based on zero actual listening. Move on.

 

 

Yah, it's different - Ken can likely explain if he's around and you're genuinely interested.

 

In the end, I think forums are valuable when people are providing constructive feedback based on actual experience. It's frustrating when so many offer negative commentary yet zero actual experience with the product being discussed.

 

I've listened, and the results are exemplary. Liquid or not, they are worth giving a listen IMHO.

Bumperdoo,

What you need to understand is that is that there's a significant number of scientists on this website, who are highly frustrated individuals.  For these folks, audio is really no more than an electronics experiment.  And they absolutely hate it when you mess with their beliefs.  It's like...you don't respect their education, or professional experience, or something.  Drives them nuts.  And there you go again, expecting them to listen to a product before forming a conclusion.  Most of us can appreciate that truly great/successful scientists have a remarkable quest for understanding the answers to questions that challenge preconceptions.  The dumb/unsuccessful scientists are the ones who constantly stand on a platform with a megaphone trotting out their old ideas, like we're supposed to be educated and impressed.  Over time, they generally become increasingly angry and frustrated at being ignored until they disappear entirely inside their own bottoms. Sorry for the long explanation - hope it helps.

[Ralf11]

I think you are confusing scientists and engineers.

 

 

[monteverdi]

The idea of liquid cable derives from the idea that crystal boundaries in normal metal conductors have a negative effect on sound quality and amorphous materials (like liquids) have no crystal boundaries. There have been interconnects made from non liquid amorphous metal wire like the crazy expensive Stealth ones but I never heard them as I am not into this obsession. 

P.S: What about the safety of these mercury replacement thermometers containing a similar liquid metal?

[mansr]

10 hours ago, monteverdi said:

The idea of liquid cable derives from the idea that crystal boundaries in normal metal conductors have a negative effect on sound quality and amorphous materials (like liquids) have no crystal boundaries.

Why don't they just say so instead of all that nonsensical technobabble? Not that this notion stands up to scrutiny either.

[bumperdoo]

2 hours ago, mansr said:

Why don't they just say so instead of all that nonsensical technobabble? Not that this notion stands up to scrutiny either.

 

Oh boy... like I said earlier, the designer is a technical genius and is describing why and how they work. If you don't accept it, move on...

[mansr]

15 minutes ago, bumperdoo said:

Oh boy... like I said earlier, the designer is a technical genius and is describing why and how they work. If you don't accept it, move on...

Although he has a remarkable ability to randomly string together sciency words, I wouldn't say that qualifies him as a genius, let alone a technical one.

[Speedskater]

We can test cables without knowing anything about the cable's materials or construction. One good test would be to compare the signal at the cable's output to the input. Modern test equipment allows this test to measure down near the -150dB range.

[bumperdoo]

Just now, mansr said:

Although he has a remarkable ability to randomly string together sciency words, I wouldn't say that qualifies him as a genius, let alone a technical one.

 

Ah, so you've met him and listened to his products and concluded this on your own?

[bumperdoo]

1 minute ago, Speedskater said:

One good test would be to compare the signal at the cable's output to the input.

 

I know another good test - listen to them in a quality system! Crazy, I know...

[mansr]

3 minutes ago, bumperdoo said:

Ah, so you've met him and listened to his products and concluded this on your own?

I've read his website.

[Speedskater]

2 minutes ago, bumperdoo said:

 

I know another good test - listen to them in a quality system! Crazy, I know...

If they sound different, then someone needs to find out what is wrong with them.

[bumperdoo]

Just now, mansr said:

I've read his website.

 

And from this you've concluded that you're an expert and he's a chump. Amazing... 

 

Where is your website and products so we can see what true genius sounds like my friend?

 

1 minute ago, Speedskater said:

If they sound different, then someone needs to find out what is wrong with them.

 

Have you listened to them? No? Oh, then move on... you are judging an audio component without having heard how they perform... bizarre...

[mansr]

28 minutes ago, bumperdoo said:

And from this you've concluded that you're an expert and he's a chump. Amazing... 

No, I concluded that the website is full of meaningless technobabble. He might still be a genius, but proof of that would have to come from elsewhere.

[bumperdoo]

10 minutes ago, mansr said:

No, I concluded that the website is full of meaningless technobabble. He might still be a genius, but proof of that would have to come from elsewhere.

 

And as many of us have pointed out, the cables sound fabulous.

 

Why don't you give them a listen since this is an "Audiophile" forum my friend. *Audio* typically means listening...

 

If you just want to stick to quoting specs, I would encourage you to find an electrical engineering forum somewhere and impress them with your knowledge.

[Ralf11]

most likely because it is not worth his time (plus, they may not honor the refund terms)

 

maybe the guy is a genius but cannot write sentences in English (?) -- or afford someone who can

 

now, who are you bumperdoo?  any relationship with the cable maker?

[bumperdoo]

Just now, Ralf11 said:

most likely because it is not worth his time (plus, they may not honor the refund terms)

 

They always do! Well, they wouldn't keep their PayPal merchant account very long if they cheated their clients.

 

1 minute ago, Ralf11 said:

maybe the guy is a genius but cannot write sentences in English (?) -- or afford someone who can

 

 

LOL! I don't disagree with you there! LOL Sometimes brilliant people operate on their own level which isn't consistent with the general population.

 

2 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

now, who are you bumperdoo?  any relationship with the cable maker?

 

Super happy customer of theirs - own a pair of Splash Ref C and a pair of Standards. Upgraded the Game Changers to the Splash initially. GCs blew me away, Splash took it to another level so I made the jump.

 

Splash between my Meitner MA-1 DAC and Audio Valve Eclipse pre-amp. Standards between the pre and a pair of BHK 300s.

[Ralf11]

19 hours ago, monteverdi said:

The idea of liquid cable derives from the idea that crystal boundaries in normal metal conductors have a negative effect on sound quality and amorphous materials (like liquids) have no crystal boundaries. There have been interconnects made from non liquid amorphous metal wire like the crazy expensive Stealth ones but I never heard them as I am not into this obsession. 

P.S: What about the safety of these mercury replacement thermometers containing a similar liquid metal?

 

Thx for a rational post.  but...

 

1.  amorphous in materials science refers to a non-crystalline solid  - tho I get your meaning

2. I've never heard of any science to suggest that anything like this could affect sound

3. Strong claims that diverge from known physics requires strong evidence - where are the reliable listening studies?

 

Finally, here is a simple primer on some of these issues:

http://web.mit.edu/sahughes/www/8.022/lec05.pdf