ISO REGEN Listening Impressions (kicked off with some measurements)

[Bdht]

24 minutes ago, CheapSplurge said:

Kind of money tight right now.. Had to sell all but my aduip equipment. 

I'm interested in this iso regen but I definitely won't be able to afford the power supply too. 

Without the power supply... Is it still ok?

Ya, there are two decent very options that can get you a nice performance boost until you add the ultracap.  A $15 jameco linear psu and getting a quadrapole dc cable between the iso regen and the psu.

[CheapSplurge]

44 minutes ago, Bdht said:

Ya, there are two decent very options that can get you a nice performance boost until you add the ultracap.  A $15 jameco linear psu and getting a quadrapole dc cable between the iso regen and the psu.

Can you provide a link? 

Should I get a usb regen, the old cheap one? Will that suffice or is the new one far better transparency? 

[Bdht]

12 minutes ago, CheapSplurge said:

Can you provide a link? 

Should I get a usb regen, the old cheap one? Will that suffice or is the new one far better transparency? 

https://www.jameco.com/z/GPU41090500WD00-4-5W-AC-to-DC-Regulated-Linear-Wall-Adapter-9-Volt-0-5-Amps_1953639.html

 

The usb regen with that psu and the dc cable sounds very good, if you can find a cheap used usb regen to try out id recommend it.  The iso regen is much better and then powering the iso regen with an ultracap(as well as powering the usb to spdif/i2s board) is damn near the pinnacle of usb performance.

[NWLanding]

Woot Woot! I got a shipping confirmation today for the ISO REGEN and UltraCap LPS-1.2 pairing I ordered! By this weekend they'll be joining the company of my ETHER REGEN and my Audiowise OPTO-DX kit.  Looking forward to some audio nirvana that so many of you have confirmed from you're own experiences.  Of course, this means I may now need to order a Lush^3 USB  cable to go with it.

 

 

[R1200CL]

From TAS latest edition.
 

Initially, I was a bit disappointed with the Soekris. USB audio lacked the focus and rhythmic drive I’d been enjoying with SPDIF Red Book CDs. I suspected that the culprit was most likely a noisy USB stream from my Mac BookPro laptop. So, I decided to investigate UpTone Audio’s ISO REGEN, a device that is inserted between the computer USB output and the DAC input with the objectives of providing galvanic isolation from a potentially noisy computer and of fully regenerating a clean USB data stream. It looked a bit funky dangling from the USB port, but it undeniably boosted the sound quality by a significant margin—I’m tempted to say by a factor of two. The most noticeable improvements were sweeter textures, tighter image focus, and enhanced soundstage clarity due to cleaner transient attack and decay. UpTone Audio’s Alex Crespi loaned me the optional UltraCap LPS-1.2 linear power supply for use with the ISO REGEN. It displaced a generic Chinese linear DC power supply and further boosted overall sonic benefits. The cost of this UpTone combo almost equals that of the dac1421, but if you’re into computer audio you should definitely up your game with UpTone Audio. 

 

[Superdad]

14 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

From TAS latest edition.

 

Wow, thanks for posting that link!

Mr. Olsher purchased an ISO REGEN (at full price) just over a year ago. Then in May we loaned him an UltraCap LPS-1.2 to pair with it. I had forgotten all about his plan to include us as part of his review, and he never sent me a copy of what he wrote. There is so much that I have no time to do these days--including reading audio magazines--so this is a pleasant surprise. 

[kldb]

Hello, my iso regen is used between the player and the DAC, but after using iso regen, my player frequently has inexplicable playback interruptions. What's the matter?  Please help to solve it!

[Superdad]

8 hours ago, kldb said:

Hello, my iso regen is used between the player and the DAC, but after using iso regen, my player frequently has inexplicable playback interruptions. What's the matter?  Please help to solve it!

 

Hello:

We would like to assist you but we need more information.

Please tell us:

a) What computer/streamer you are using as source to send data to ISO REGEN.

b) What DAC you are using.

c) What USB cable between source and ISO REGEN.

d) What USB cable between ISO REGEN and DAC.

e) What power supply and voltage are you using for ISO REGEN.

f) What music player software are you using.

g) When do the playback interruptions occur?

h) Have you tried putting the red switch of the ISO REGEN in the up ('ON') position?

 

You can answer here, or you can send us a message via the Contact Us page on our web site at https://uptoneaudio.com/pages/contact-us.

Please include answers to all the above--and also tell us from whom you purchased your ISO REGEN.

Thank you,

--Alex C.

[kldb]

Thank you for your attention and answer your questions
 A) My music source is the MX Pro digital turntable manufactured by Jingfeng Digital Technology Company in Mainland China (http://www.jfdigital.com/cp.php?pid=2816435&_t=1570615988)
 B) My DAC is simaudio moon280d (https://simaudio.com/en/product/280d-streaming-dac/)
 C) Two customized usb data cables to connect source iso regen and DAC
 D) Use DIY self-made USB cable to connect Iso regen and DAC
 E) Iso regen uses the original power supply
 F) The playback software comes with MX Pro
 G) Iso regen used for about 30 minutes, and the playback started to be interrupted
 H) Try to set the red switch of ISO REGEN to the up ("ON") position, no improvement.

[kldb]

I purchased from the "German KLOTZ General Marketing" store on Taobao in Mainland China (https://h5.m.taobao.com/awp/core/detail.htm?id=583092658766&spm=a21202.11768517.tborderdetaiitem_1.i0), they are  Agent in China, Hong Kong and Macau.  Thank you again

 

[Superdad]

23 minutes ago, kldb said:

C) Two customized usb data cables to connect source iso regen and DAC
 D) Use DIY self-made USB cable to connect Iso regen and DAC

We suspect these cables are the cause of your trouble.  The Silanna ICE08USB galvanic isolator chip at the input of the ISO REGEN is often not happy with custom "audiophile" USB cables--which are generally very far from USB 90-Ohm characteristic impedance specification. 

Please try some other USB cables--specifically ones that are USB2.0 certified.  With each ISO REGEN we include a 15cm USB2.0-certified cable. Please try that between your source and the input to the ISO REGEN. (ISO REGEN can drive most any cable on its output, so as long as there are no mechanical contact problems you can use any cable on output side to DAC.)

[kldb]

Thank you for your attention. I haven't got the USB cable provided yet, I will try again according to your method

[R1200CL]

3 hours ago, kldb said:

Thank you for your attention. I haven't got the USB cable provided yet, I will try again according to your method

Not to mention the perfect USPCB from Uptone as well. 😀

[Mat]

Can ISO regen benefit if i use between  Macbook pro to mscaler , as mscaler is already  galvanized isolated?

[Superdad]

15 hours ago, Mat said:

Can ISO regen benefit if i use between  Macbook pro to mscaler , as mscaler is already galvanized isolated?

 

Sure. (And there are Chord MScaler owners using an ISO REGEN.)

Aside from the fact that the signal integrity improvements of the ISO REGEN go beyond its galvanic isolation feature, there is something worth explaining:

 

As with virtually any DAC with digital "galvanic" isolators, those are always on the I2S lines--AFTER the USB input stage.  They do not isolate the USB input stage itself from what comes before.

 

Why is that? Because all digital isolator chips (regardless of their speed or technology--optical, capacitive, RF, magneto-resistive, etc.) are ONE-WAY devices for each bit (yes, they are often packaged with multiple bit-channels, but you choose which channels are going which way and that's set).

So the only way to put a USB signal across an isolator is to process it into a format where data going upstream is not on the same line as data going downstream.  The only integrated chip capable of doing this at USB2.0 high-speed is the Silanna ICE08USB--the part we use in the ISO REGEN.  Beyond that one can accomplish this with two FPGAs and a bunch of code (as done in the Intona-brand isolator box).  [There is another, much more elegant method than either of the above, but I'm not going to discuss it here.]

 

Hope that helps.

--Alex C.

[jamesg11]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

 [There is another, much more elegant method than either of the above, but I'm not going to discuss it here.]

Intriguing ... & maybe significant in the UpTone future?

[scan80269]

I'm extremely late to the EtherREGEN party, and have not posted here for a very long time.  Long story, but it had much to do with the loss of interest in audio after the passing of a dear colleague/mentor/friend and a family member in 2019.

 

Recently, an EtherREGEN has been introduced into my headphones system, to my major delight.  Both an ISO REGEN & EtherREGEN each delivered very noticeable SQ improvements.  There are now a total of 6 UpTone Audio devices serving this rig (not sure if this is a record? 🤣)

 

Attached is a block diagram of this headphones system.  It is heavy into isolation, with multiple REGENs, LPS-1/1.2 supplies and isolation transformers.  China built LPS from eBay were modified with Schottky rectifiers and better electrolytic caps.

 

This headphones rig has never sounded better.  I've been listening critically to a couple of tracks recommended by audiophile buddies.  There is very significant increase in piano heft, midrange fullness and treble smoothness, but the most stunning effect has to be dramatic increase in reverb effect.  It sounds like someone turned up the reverb during track mastering.  Reverb tails are much more easily discerned and sound longer.  Many tracks now have voices & instruments enveloped in a halo of reverb, something that I have not always noticed before.  There are also other improvements.  Imaging of voices & instruments got more focused and sharp, while the sound stage expanded.  I didn't even realize those two could be accomplished simultaneously, especially with headphones.

 

Anyway, I'm back to doing a good deal of listening.

 

 

scan80269_Headphones_System_2021-0314.pdf

[Superdad]

4 hours ago, scan80269 said:

I'm extremely late to the EtherREGEN party, and have not posted here for a very long time.  Long story, but it had much to do with the loss of interest in audio after the passing of a dear colleague/mentor/friend and a family member in 2019.

Hi Sam:

Great to see you posting and listening more after so long. Condolences again with regards to your longtime friend Victor.

Sorry I’ve yet to reply to you early-March letter; will get there.

 

Thanks very much for your highly descriptive post about the good things you are hearing in your system—in part from inclusion of a good number of our components. 

We are making progress on other innovative new pieces and I look forward to being able to speak of them once we get a bit closer to beta test and production. So stay tuned...

[R1200CL]

22 hours ago, Superdad said:

Why is that? Because all digital isolator chips (regardless of their speed or technology--optical, capacitive, RF, magneto-resistive, etc.) are ONE-WAY devices for each bit (yes, they are often packaged with multiple bit-channels, but you choose which channels are going which way and that's set).

Just to confirm, does this also apply to ethernet, so as an example the ADIM (Active Differential Isolation Moat) is an example of how this chip can be used ? 
 

Can this elegant method also be implemented in ethernet isolation technology ?

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, R1200CL said:

Just to confirm, does this also apply to ethernet, so as an example the ADIM (Active Differential Isolation Moat) is an example of how this chip can be used ? 

Not understanding your question. Are you referring to the (now-discontinued) Silanna USB isolator chip as used in the ISO REGEN?

If so, then no, that thing is USB-only and the methods we use in the EtherREGEN are more advanced. Remember, the issue for USB2.0 is that it is a bi-directional protocol over a signal pair of wires. USB3.0 and Ethernet are have separate TX and RX pairs.  

[R1200CL]

OK. I’m mixing things. Anyway I think you answered my question. Thanks. 

[agladstone]

22 minutes ago, Superdad said:

Not understanding your question. Are you referring to the (now-discontinued) Silanna USB isolator chip as used in the ISO REGEN?

If so, then no, that thing is USB-only and the methods we use in the EtherREGEN are more advanced. Remember, the issue for USB2.0 is that it is a bi-directional protocol over a signal pair of wires. USB3.0 and Ethernet are have separate TX and RX pairs.  

So more can be done for isolation and reclocking if kept within USB 3.0 vs USB 2.0 ? 

[Superdad]

9 minutes ago, agladstone said:

So more can be done for isolation and reclocking if kept within USB 3.0 vs USB 2.0 ? 

It is just a bit easier. Still challenging to do correctly. Problem is, it is only USB 3.0/3.1 in SuperSpeed mode that uses two differential pairs. So even if you see a DAC with a big blue USB3.0 input jack, I doubt it is running at SuperSpeed (625MB/sec). So we are stuck with translating to USB2.0 for a while longer...

[agladstone]

Agreed, it does seem that even the DAC’s that have USB 3.0/3.1 input still use USB 2.0. 
I think maybe some of the ifi DAC’s are true USB 3.0 SS (don’t quote me!) , I suspect a few others are out there perhaps too? 

[scan80269]

1000Base-T gigabit and faster use all 4 twisted pairs for transmit and receive simultaneously with full duplex.  This differs from USB 3.x SuperSpeed where the TX & RX pairs are always unidirectional.

 

I doubt if USB 3.x would be beneficial to DACs.  The much faster switching speed makes the receiver circuits more power hungry and thus electrically noisier.  This is a possibly a case where faster is not better for audio, unless the noise spectrum is easier to filter/block than that of USB 2.0 HighSpeed.