Think twice before purchasing lossless files online

[miguelito]

Hi guys. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but here it goes.

Few nights ago I met with an old friend at a bar. This is a guy who was big on music in high school. Huge vinyl collection, always purchased CD’s, etc. We started talking and after a while I asked him about his awesome vinyl collection and his take on digital music.

He tells me he has a side gig with apple and hd tracks. He says he provides them with music. He charges apple $2.88 (or $1.88 maybe?) per CD and HD tracks $2.79. They make him digitally sign some documents after he rips a certain amount of CD’s (apple after 25 i think and HD tracks after 10, with the list of albums he has ripped).

He says that since they have most stuff digitalized already, he provides them with lists every month of stuff he thinks they might be interested (imports, OOP sets, box sets). He said they’re rarely interested in new releases (maybe they do them in-house?).

So I asked him what program he uses to rip, which settings, blah blah. He tells me basically he rips using EAC burst mode and that 50% of the time he copies the mp3’s he got from Napster (or other trackers) to a CD-RW and then rips them to FLAC and/or other lossless format (don’t remember the name). He said neither apple nor hd tracks asks him for the log, cue, or anything. He said they did at first (during his trial period which lasted I don’t remember how many months) but not anymore.

Basically he said that new albums are ok to download (if you don’t mind burst mode) but anything released more than 5 years ago… well who knows. Hopefully it’s not him that is ripping them.

This is really troublesome. I don’t think I trust any company offering lossless music online anymore unless they provide the log, md5, cue and the files match CUEdatabase checksum. Otherwise I might as well be listening to mp3’s copied to CD-R then ripped to FLAC. Basically it’s like taking a picture (JPEG, not even RAW), printing it, scanning the picture and you get the end result.

He says he knows one more person doing this and employed by amazon. He doesn’t know how much amazon pays. He tried amazon but they didn’t need him.

Very concerning IMO. I don’t know about you guys but I’m not paying for a lossless file of a badly compressed lossy copy.

Someone just got on my block list with ONE stupid post.

[wgscott]

I was not being serious. Sorry for not including a "winkie," but it's sort of like laughing at your own jokes.

 

Or Alex's.

[wgscott]

Someone just got on my block list with ONE stupid post.

 

I've made 12,468 stupid posts. What am I, chopped USB cable?

[R1200CL]

Nope, a politician [emoji3]

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

[audiventory]

Lets step back for a minute... We are even entertaining the idea that a company with a market cap of 738 BILLION dollars is hiring some schmuck too rip CDs for them? Really? Seriously? Fer sure? GOOOOOOOOOODDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!

 

I don't know how to really deals in the music industry are made, but I suppose, that buyer of copyright get track(s) in some form by copyright holder.

 

So why need double action:

- buy copyright for a stuff and

- buy tracks from some person, who probably have no rights to distribute the copyrighted stuff?

[Richard Pryor]

Lets step back for a minute... We are even entertaining the idea that a company with a market cap of 738 BILLION dollars is hiring some schmuck too rip CDs for them? Really? Seriously? Fer sure? GOOOOOOOOOODDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!

This is completely and utterly retarded. It makes absolutely no sense. Apple bothers to go to some schmuck to get files ripped? Nonesense!

 

How do you think they convert to digital files? They have an office with a bunch of people ripping and a supervisor watching them? It's possible I guess.

 

I just wrote apple and asked them if all their music is converted to digital files in house? I'll keep you posted.

 

If you guys have absolute faith that these CD's are ripped on secure mode and are completely legit, then don't let me rain on your parade. I just want some answers and I also want the log files of the albums I purchase.

[Richard Pryor]

I don't know how to really deals in the music industry are made, but I suppose, that buyer of copyright get track(s) in some form by copyright holder.

 

So why need double action:

- buy copyright for a stuff and

- buy tracks from some person, who probably have no rights to distribute the copyrighted stuff?

 

They're not buying the tracks from him. They are paying him to rip CD's. They are paying him for a service not for goods.

[wgscott]

Why do you think they rip CDs?

 

Your friend is yanking your cable.

[Jud]

How do you think they convert to digital files? They have an office with a bunch of people ripping and a supervisor watching them? It's possible I guess.

 

I just wrote apple and asked them if all their music is converted to digital files in house? I'll keep you posted.

 

If you guys have absolute faith that these CD's are ripped on secure mode and are completely legit, then don't let me rain on your parade. I just want some answers and I also want the log files of the albums I purchase.

I'm guessing this is comic relief, but if not, you know they deal in files and have no reason to bother with anything that's ever been on a silver disc, right?

[Jud]

I've made 12,468 stupid posts. What am I, chopped USB cable?

Where are the 3 or 4 good ones?

[miguelito]

I don't know how to really deals in the music industry are made, but I suppose, that buyer of copyright get track(s) in some form by copyright holder.

 

So why need double action:

- buy copyright for a stuff and

- buy tracks from some person, who probably have no rights to distribute the copyrighted stuff?

My point is not about copyright but about simple supply chain: Apple cannot depend on some schmuck, or 20 or 1000 to rip CDs for them. It makes absolutely no sense at all.

[audiventory]

If you guys have absolute faith that these CD's are ripped on secure mode and are completely legit, then don't let me rain on your parade. I just want some answers and I also want the log files of the albums I purchase.

 

If you mean "secure mode" as comparing of ripped stuff with some uncertified checksum database, it don't give any guarantee identity rip to studio original (file that recorded to CD).

 

Buying of master/original file from copyright holder give higher probability binary identity of digital audio file.

[miguelito]

How do you think they convert to digital files? They have an office with a bunch of people ripping and a supervisor watching them? It's possible I guess.

They don't. They get them from the music labels in digital form!

I just wrote apple and asked them if all their music is converted to digital files in house? I'll keep you posted.

You'll get some boiler plate answer cuz the last person that ask that question was Grampa Simpson.

[wwaldmanfan]

50% of the time he copies the mp3’s he got from Napster (or other trackers) to a CD-RW and then rips them to FLAC and/or other lossless format (don’t remember the name). He said neither apple nor hd tracks asks him for the log, cue, or anything. He said they did at first (during his trial period which lasted I don’t remember how many months) but not anymore.

 

So, some of the hi-res files I am buying from HDTracks may actually be upsampled from MP3's pirated from bitorrent sites by a black ops independent contractor? Thanks for letting us know the real scoop. it is inside information like this that makes this forum such a valuable resource.

[audiventory]

My point is not about copyright but about simple supply chain: Apple cannot depend on some schmuck, or 20 or 1000 to rip CDs for them. It makes absolutely no sense at all.

 

Copyright is not main issue in my post. I want to describe workflow of similar deals only (as I imagine).

 

I read biography of Steve Jobs and there good described, that there was big issue make agreement with each copyright holder. If a music store have a signed agreement with the holder, the holder provide digital files. It is simplest way, as me seems.

[Dr Tone]

You guys aren't thinking this through, there is money to be made here.

 

Who at apple do we send our list of ripped CDs to? Sounds like easy money to me. LOL

[wwaldmanfan]

You guys aren't thinking this through, there is money to be made here.

 

Who at apple do we send our list of ripped CDs to? Sounds like easy money to me. LOL

 

Imma let you handle the ripped CD's. I got the import, out-of-print, and box set MP3's that I have bootlegged from Russian bittorrent sites. If Apple don't buy them, HDTracks will want them for upsampling.

[esldude]

Or Alex's.

 

Maybe Alex is back as Richard Pryor. We'll know if his friend tells him Apple buys his rips because they are done with an LPS and buying from the actual music companies they ruin it all by sending it over the internet.

[Paul R]

He never implied that apple and hd tracks were using the music illegally. I'm sure they are not. They probably pay for special licenses so they can sell the music. That's why my friend provides them with lists and signs those documents.

 

I just wrote both companies asking if they can provide EAC logs for the albums I buy from them. I'll let you know what they reply.

 

It's pretty simple in my opinion. Current tools allow you to verify 1) if the cd was ripped with secure mode and 2) if the checksum/code/cue or whatever it's called corresponds to that CD in the cue database. That would prevent what my friend is doing.

 

No need - I know that Apple is not buying from your friend, but receives their music digitally. No RIPs involved.

 

-Paul

[Jud]

He never implied that apple and hd tracks were using the music illegally. I'm sure they are not. They probably pay for special licenses so they can sell the music. That's why my friend provides them with lists and signs those documents.

 

 

Oh, the *special* licenses. And signed lists. Of course. Why didn't you say so in the first place?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[wgscott]

If Apple really wanted to acquire music via random members of the public ripping CDs, why wouldn't they use iTunes Match as a mechanism for doing this, since it uploads music they don't/can't match in their repository?

 

But this whole thing is just a steaming pile of troll excreta.

[Richard Pryor]

So apple gets their music in digital format from the source? Any way to confirm this? Apple hasn't replied to me yet. I got a generic message saying I would get a reply within 24 hours.

 

I'm not trolling people. If my friend was lying then so be it. I just want to know where my music comes from. I don't want mp3's from Napster dressed as FLAC.

[Richard Pryor]

No need - I know that Apple is not buying from your friend, but receives their music digitally. No RIPs involved.

-Paul

Hey Paul. How do you know this? Just curious.

[Richard Pryor]

Does spotify get their music digital from the source as well? Amazon?

[Bystander]

When I read the thread title, I thought the OP was going to tell us that the music download services are selling dynamic range-crushed and brickwalled digital masters as "high-res", as if that would make them more listenable, like we didn't already know that.

 

I thought it was going to be about audible watermarks:

 

Universal's Audible Watermark